Spontaneous Power

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There appears to be a new Promo card:

Spontaneous Power
Type: Master
Cost: 2 pool
Unique master.
Put this card on a vampire and choose a Discipline. This vampire gains 1
level of the chosen Discipline. While in play, this card counts as a master:
Discipline card.
Rarity: Promo:20050611

It has been mentioned on Path of Blood, Ash Heap and others, yet there has
been no official announcement. However go to White Wolfs site, and there it
is under Promos, and you can even download the .csv file for ARDB.
Seems odd to have this low profile release, but there you go.
Sam

 

[pat]

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"Jazzbeaux" <sam.marsh@NOTrenelec.co.uk> wrote in message
news:d8k36l$nsl$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> There appears to be a new Promo card:
>
> Spontaneous Power
> Type: Master
> Cost: 2 pool
> Unique master.
> Put this card on a vampire and choose a Discipline. This vampire gains 1
> level of the chosen Discipline. While in play, this card counts as a
> master: Discipline card.
> Rarity: Promo:20050611
>
> It has been mentioned on Path of Blood, Ash Heap and others, yet there has
> been no official announcement. However go to White Wolfs site, and there
> it is under Promos, and you can even download the .csv file for ARDB.
> Seems odd to have this low profile release, but there you go.
> Sam
>

This card was handed out at the Washington, DC qualifier this past weekend.

Everybody dust off those Dauntain Black Magicians...

- Pat

 

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"Jazzbeaux" <sam.marsh@NOTrenelec.co.uk> wrote in message
news:d8k36l$nsl$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> There appears to be a new Promo card:
>
> Spontaneous Power
> Type: Master
> Cost: 2 pool
> Unique master.
> Put this card on a vampire and choose a Discipline. This vampire gains 1 level of the chosen Discipline. While in play, this card
> counts as a master: Discipline card.
> Rarity: Promo:20050611
>
> It has been mentioned on Path of Blood, Ash Heap and others, yet there has been no official announcement. However go to White
> Wolfs site, and there it is under Promos, and you can even download the .csv file for ARDB.
> Seems odd to have this low profile release, but there you go.

It seems unlikely it would be on White Wolf's site if it weren't authentic.
(Unless someone pulled off one hell of a hack, I suppose.) So I guess it's
a tournament promo which got officially released this past weekend.

Cool card. Back when Bloodlines came out, I was very disappointed at the
clan limitation in Sanguine Instruction and in the lack of any Bloodlines
discipline cards in general. The point was made at the time that you can't
hand out levels of things like Obeah to just anyone and I agree with that.
Still, you could put out a higher cost card and make it possible to teach
Frederick the Weak Temporis or something without breaking the game, I think.
So here it is, finally, in a truly general form. (For instance, the Tremere
Antitribu already have Infernal Pact.) I notice you still can't use it by
itself to train a whole clan some exotic discipline. Though I also notice
a Lasombra could use Spontaneous Power in combination with Camarilla Vitae
Slave to Sanguine Instruct other Lasombra in any single discpline desired.
It would probably be a pain but it could be done.

Anyway I like it. It's fun without cheapening exotic displines too much.

Fred

 

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Peter D Bakija wrote:
> Frederick Scott wrote:
>
> > Anyway I like it. It's fun without cheapening exotic displines too much.
>
> Yeah--over on Path of Blood, everyone was like "How is this card good?". The
> answer is quite simple. One word, baby--Choir.

Hahahaha!

Okay Peter, you know that anytime the answer to your question is "use
Choir" you are in trouble.

I think obviously, the answer to "how is this card good" is..."it makes
Cardano better".




Xian

 

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Frederick Scott wrote:
> "Peter D Bakija" <pdb6@lightlink.com> wrote in message
> news:BED35D95.200F5%pdb6@lightlink.com...
> > Frederick Scott wrote:
> >
> >> Anyway I like it. It's fun without cheapening exotic displines too much.
> >
> > Yeah--over on Path of Blood, everyone was like "How is this card good?".
>
> Seems right. At a cost of two pool, it's use will likely be restricted to
> fun decks and maybe just the periphery of tournament play. But....that's
> how things should be for promos.*** I wonder what they were expecting on
> Path of Blood? The next tournament powerpower*POWER* card?!?
>
> Fred
>
> (*** - Then and again, I also have a sneaking suspicion someone somewhere
> will find a surprisingly imaginative use for it.)

I'll tell ya what I was thinking:

It's a bad card.

I predict it will see play in fun decks which are trying hard to make
something specific happen. With a slight bit of tweaking, I think it
could be playable in tournaments and not be abusive.

Unique and 2 pool cost is too much. We still don't see Infernal Pact at
the highest levels. Of the six !Tremere TWDs, only Eric's deck used it.

Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate the fact that this card exists to
give lots of flexibility to those who want to do fun stuff with their
decks, but it is maddening to me (call me short-sighted if you will)
that this sort of card isn't obviously going to fit into a lot of
different strategies.

Cards which require disciplines are generally WAY less useful at
inferior than superior. Since you only get 1 level boost you might as
well be playing with the standard discipline card and get the capacity
boost out of it as well. If you're playing with a zillion disciplines
in your deck, I can see it being marginally useful, but are you doing
to dedicate several slots to this card when it is Unique and costs 2
pool? Give me a 2-cap with the same inferior discipline any time.

This card is also going to help out those Bloodlines (and future) clans
which have until now only been able to use Sanguine Instruction to
teach up their clanmates to superior level in a rare discipline. That
alone won't help them be more viable.

What would have rocked:

Spontaneous Power
1 Pool
Master
Put this card on a vampire and choose a Discipline. This vampire gains
one level of the chosen discipline. While in play, this card counts as
a master: Discipline card. A vampire may only have one Spontaneous
Power.

Jeff



Btw, is this the right artwork?

http://www.cryptmonkey.com/gallery/misc/04.html

 

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<jeffkuta@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:1118697016.478974.8760@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Frederick Scott wrote:
>> I wonder what they were expecting on
>> Path of Blood? The next tournament powerpower*POWER* card?!?
>
> I'll tell ya what I was thinking:
>
> It's a bad card.
>
> I predict it will see play in fun decks which are trying hard to make
> something specific happen. With a slight bit of tweaking, I think it
> could be playable in tournaments and not be abusive.

Well, yea, but a card like that should be printed in an expansion, not
issued as a promo. Maybe say it's unfortunate they didn't choose to do
the former but...

> Unique and 2 pool cost is too much. We still don't see Infernal Pact at
> the highest levels. Of the six !Tremere TWDs, only Eric's deck used it.
>
> Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate the fact that this card exists to
> give lots of flexibility to those who want to do fun stuff with their
> decks, but it is maddening to me (call me short-sighted if you will)
> that this sort of card isn't obviously going to fit into a lot of
> different strategies.

I agree, as a real tournament card it's overcosted. I'm noticing that
there seems to be a distinct dichotomy in the tastes of players when
they think about blurring abilities between clans and disciplines. I'm
with you in that I think a certain amount of it is fun and should be
facilitated. There seems to be a lot of people around who feel like
the lines are already far too blurry and don't want to see any more
cards which allow clans to borrow functions from other clans.

I would say that although the cost is on the high side and the uniqueness
really limits its uses, the card is far from unusable. I've seen some
cards printed in the past that were brilliant ideas but got so insanely
saddled with costs and limitations I wanted to cry. This card, at least,
is not in that class.

Fred

 

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Frederick Scott <nospam@no.spam.dot.com> wrote:
> Well, yea, but a card like that should be printed in an expansion, not
> issued as a promo. Maybe say it's unfortunate they didn't choose to
> do the former but...

Why should a card that you would only want a few of, in a NCL game, be
printed in an expansion? I mean, this strikes me as the PERFECT card to
have been printed this way. Meddling Of Semsith was also an excellent
choice for this kind of limited-print limited-release card.

> I would say that although the cost is on the high side

Agreed. Should have probably been 1 pool.

> and the uniqueness really limits its uses,

Agreed. Should have been non-unique and 1-2 pool. But I still like the
fact that the card exists.

> the card is far from unusable. I've seen some cards printed in
> the past that were brilliant ideas but got so insanely saddled with
> costs and limitations I wanted to cry. This card, at least, is not
> in that class.

Such as? =)

> Fred

Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy, and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment... Complacency... Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier

 

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Frederick Scott wrote:

> Anyway I like it. It's fun without cheapening exotic displines too much.

Yeah--over on Path of Blood, everyone was like "How is this card good?". The
answer is quite simple. One word, baby--Choir.

(ducks)

Ok, ok. Yeah, like, it isn't going to make the Daughters rule the world or
anything, but I think having a couple of these in a DoC Choir deck so as to
give, like, Delilah Easton or whomever mel and be able to Choir is quite
handy.


Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil

 

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"Peter D Bakija" <pdb6@lightlink.com> wrote in message
news:BED35D95.200F5%pdb6@lightlink.com...
> Frederick Scott wrote:
>
>> Anyway I like it. It's fun without cheapening exotic displines too much.
>
> Yeah--over on Path of Blood, everyone was like "How is this card good?".

Seems right. At a cost of two pool, it's use will likely be restricted to
fun decks and maybe just the periphery of tournament play. But....that's
how things should be for promos.*** I wonder what they were expecting on
Path of Blood? The next tournament powerpower*POWER* card?!?

Fred

(*** - Then and again, I also have a sneaking suspicion someone somewhere
will find a surprisingly imaginative use for it.)

 

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"Kevin M." <youwish@imaspammer.org> wrote in message news:Y%nre.36$kk.35@fed1read01...
> Frederick Scott <nospam@no.spam.dot.com> wrote:
>> Well, yea, but a card like that should be printed in an expansion, not
>> issued as a promo. Maybe say it's unfortunate they didn't choose to
>> do the former but...
>
> Why should a card that you would only want a few of, in a NCL game, be
> printed in an expansion? I mean, this strikes me as the PERFECT card to
> have been printed this way.

You clipped context and (either because of clipping context or perhaps
this was why you chose to clip) misunderstood my point. Jeff said,
"With a slight bit of tweaking, I think it could be playable in tournaments
and not be abusive." I replied, "Well, yea, but a card like that should be
printed in an expansion, not issued as a promo."

Make more sense now? I don't think we disagree about the nature of promos.

Fred

 

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On 6/13/05 5:10 PM, in article
1118697016.478974.8760@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "jeffkuta@pacbell.net"
<jeffkuta@pacbell.net> wrote:

<SNIP>

> Btw, is this the right artwork?
>
> http://www.cryptmonkey.com/gallery/misc/04.html
>

Yes, although the printing is kinda dark on the card, so some of the detail
is lost.

- Pat

 

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"Pat" <patrick.lusk.nyetspam@nospamcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:BED372BE.4073%patrick.lusk.nyetspam@nospamcomcast.net...
> On 6/13/05 5:10 PM, in article
> 1118697016.478974.8760@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com,
> "jeffkuta@pacbell.net" <jeffkuta@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> <SNIP>
>
>> Btw, is this the right artwork?
>>
>> http://www.cryptmonkey.com/gallery/misc/04.html
>>
>
> Yes, although the printing is kinda dark on the card, so some of the detail
> is lost.

Hmmm. I hate to say it, but the art looks like it was taken straight out of
the Bill Murray movie, "Scrooged". The scene in the elevator going down where
Frank Cross meets the Ghost of Christmas Future again but when it opens its jacket,
it becomes clear that this time, the thing isn't an actor as it had been on the
way up. (Ewwww...!)

Fred

 

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Peter D Bakija wrote:
> A) Pretty much any bloodlines deck that isn't built around a single vampire.

I think mixing bloodlines with non-bloodlines is one of the better uses
for this card. I just built a Brujah/!Brujah/Trujah Trophy deck that
would love to add this in along with Trophyiscipline for the
Temporis.

Eric Simon
Prince of Chicago
Anarch Newsletter Writer

 

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jeffkuta@pacbell.net wrote:

> I predict it will see play in fun decks which are trying hard to make
> something specific happen. With a slight bit of tweaking, I think it
> could be playable in tournaments and not be abusive.

I dunno--I think it is actually pretty good. I mean, like, not Govern the
Unaligned or Giant's Blood good, but certainly worth using in the
appropriate deck. What is the appropriate deck?

A) Pretty much any bloodlines deck that isn't built around a single vampire.

B) Decks that would arguably use multiple types of skill cards--i.e. any
deck that uses, like, 2 Obf and 2 Ani skill cards, say, would likely be
better off with 1 Obf, 1 Ani, and 1 Spontaneous Power.

C) Choir, Choir, Choir!

I mean, like, yeah, even at 2 pool and unique, I think it is going to be
pretty good for most Bloodlines themed decks. And possibly good in non
Bloodlines decks based on the flexibility.


Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil

 

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Its going to go to work in my Nehsi Matthias spirit marionette
temptation freak driving deck... not that that deck is any good really,
but still...

 

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"Kevin M." <youwish@imaspammer.org> wrote in message
news:Y%nre.36$kk.35@fed1read01...
>> the card is far from unusable. I've seen some cards printed in
>> the past that were brilliant ideas but got so insanely saddled with
>> costs and limitations I wanted to cry. This card, at least, is not
>> in that class.
>
> Such as? =)

Good question. What was I thinking when I wrote the above?

I know I've had this feeling before looking at more than one card,
but now that you challenge me, I can't really give you a perfect
example of what I'm talking about.

Eyes of the Dead and Tortured Confession are two examples of cards that
_could_ be useful if redesigned not to be so insanely limited and
with a cost/benefit ratio that made them look somewhat attractive in
some way. With respect to not being so limited, the tempation would be
to broaden the class of situations when they could be used. But you
don't want to broaden it so much as to make them knockoffs of more
general cards that exist, so you also need to greatly increase the
benefits somehow when they can be used.

Crimson Fury is an example of a card whose basic idea I really loved
but got enormously screwed by the simple act of saddling it with a
blood cost. Of course, most minions in torpor have no blood - that's
how they got into torpor. Many do have blood but it's such a narrow
card just limiting its use to minions-being-diablerized that the
further limitation of a blood cost was just unreasonable. (I'm not
sure it's completely unusable as is so terming the limitations "insane"
might be a bit excessive. But, you know, I get frustrated about it.)

Maybe I'll recall more such examples with a bit of time.

Fred

 

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In message <Y%nre.36$kk.35@fed1read01>, Kevin M.
<youwish@imaspammer.org> writes:
>Why should a card that you would only want a few of, in a NCL game, be
>printed in an expansion? I mean, this strikes me as the PERFECT card to
>have been printed this way. Meddling Of Semsith was also an excellent
>choice for this kind of limited-print limited-release card.

Hmm. While Spontaneous Power does mostly scream "one or two for a trick
deck", Meddling is a card which I can see doing well in reasonably large
numbers, mixed in with cards like Blood Weakens and Veil of Darkness, to
give you a fairly nasty denial focus, with whatever else you want to do
with votes, for example.

Meddling is one of the few cards White Wolf have done where I thought
"That's probably too good for a promo."

--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

 

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Xian wrote:
> Deal! Well, if I had one.

Awsome. Well, maybe we'll get some at Origins?

> Oh man, you obviously don't know what you're speaking of. I'll show
> you the error of your ways at Origins.

Keep in mind, this was coming from a guy who, like, put 6 of his Freak
Drives in a Choir deck...

-Peter

 

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Just a dumb question here, but can I fish for this as a skill card when
I play Third Tradition or something?

 

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Preston wrote:
> Just a dumb question here, but can I fish for this as a skill card when
> I play Third Tradition or something?

No. SP is only treated as a Master: Discipline card while in play.

-Robert

 

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On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 14:32:06 -0700, "Frederick Scott"
<nospam@no.spam.dot.com> wrote:

><jeffkuta@pacbell.net> wrote in message
>news:1118697016.478974.8760@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> Frederick Scott wrote:
>>> I wonder what they were expecting on
>>> Path of Blood? The next tournament powerpower*POWER* card?!?
>>
>> I'll tell ya what I was thinking:
>>
>> It's a bad card.
>>
>> I predict it will see play in fun decks which are trying hard to make
>> something specific happen. With a slight bit of tweaking, I think it
>> could be playable in tournaments and not be abusive.
>
>Well, yea, but a card like that should be printed in an expansion, not
>issued as a promo. Maybe say it's unfortunate they didn't choose to do
>the former but...

Personally, I like that this card is a promo. Maybe I'm biased because
I know that I won't get my hand on more than 3 or 4 copies of that
card. But I understand that players with very active playgroups (in
terms of official tournaments) will have concerns after receiving the
10th copy of it.

I'd go for the card as promo with the same cost (2 pool) but not
unique - or at least with a clause "a vampire can have only 1
Spontaneous Power".

best,

Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
V:TES National Coordinator for Brazil
Giovanni Newsletter Editor
-----------------------------------------------------
V for Vendetta on the big screen!
http://vforvendetta.warnerbros.com/

 

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On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 17:58:29 -0400, Peter D Bakija
<pdb6@lightlink.com> wrote:

>jeffkuta@pacbell.net wrote:
>
>> I predict it will see play in fun decks which are trying hard to make
>> something specific happen. With a slight bit of tweaking, I think it
>> could be playable in tournaments and not be abusive.
>
>I dunno--I think it is actually pretty good. I mean, like, not Govern the
>Unaligned or Giant's Blood good, but certainly worth using in the
>appropriate deck. What is the appropriate deck?
>
>A) Pretty much any bloodlines deck that isn't built around a single vampire.

>B) Decks that would arguably use multiple types of skill cards--i.e. any
>deck that uses, like, 2 Obf and 2 Ani skill cards, say, would likely be
>better off with 1 Obf, 1 Ani, and 1 Spontaneous Power.
>
>C) Choir, Choir, Choir!
>I mean, like, yeah, even at 2 pool and unique, I think it is going to be
>pretty good for most Bloodlines themed decks. And possibly good in non
>Bloodlines decks based on the flexibility.

I was thinking about how good would it be in a given deck with Samedis
and Smallpox Griet. A few Potence skill cards for the stiffs to be
able to use Immortal Grapple and 2 copies of Spontaneous for Smallpox
getting [THN]. You won't even be bothered by the second copy of SP -
you could use it to teach the discipline you need for the Samedi you
have at hand. And boy, do they need to learn some discipline at
superior.

Of course this wouldn't be a tournament-viable deck, but what fun can
you get playing Withering under Immortal Grapple?

best,

Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
V:TES National Coordinator for Brazil
Giovanni Newsletter Editor
-----------------------------------------------------
V for Vendetta on the big screen!
http://vforvendetta.warnerbros.com/

 

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On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:41:53 -0300, "Fabio \"Sooner\""
<fabio_sooner@NOSPAMyahoo.com.br> wrote:

>On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 17:58:29 -0400, Peter D Bakija
><pdb6@lightlink.com> wrote:
>
>>jeffkuta@pacbell.net wrote:
>>
>>> I predict it will see play in fun decks which are trying hard to make
>>> something specific happen. With a slight bit of tweaking, I think it
>>> could be playable in tournaments and not be abusive.
>>
>>I dunno--I think it is actually pretty good. I mean, like, not Govern the
>>Unaligned or Giant's Blood good, but certainly worth using in the
>>appropriate deck. What is the appropriate deck?
>>
>>A) Pretty much any bloodlines deck that isn't built around a single vampire.
>
>>B) Decks that would arguably use multiple types of skill cards--i.e. any
>>deck that uses, like, 2 Obf and 2 Ani skill cards, say, would likely be
>>better off with 1 Obf, 1 Ani, and 1 Spontaneous Power.
>>
>>C) Choir, Choir, Choir!
>>I mean, like, yeah, even at 2 pool and unique, I think it is going to be
>>pretty good for most Bloodlines themed decks. And possibly good in non
>>Bloodlines decks based on the flexibility.
>
>I was thinking about how good would it be in a given deck with Samedis
>and Smallpox Griet. A few Potence skill cards for the stiffs to be
>able to use Immortal Grapple and 2 copies of Spontaneous for Smallpox
>getting [THN]. You won't even be bothered by the second copy of SP -
>you could use it to teach the discipline you need for the Samedi you
>have at hand. And boy, do they need to learn some discipline at
>superior.

Oops. Forget that. I was just so bothered by the fact that's Unique
that I even erased it from subsconcious mind

best,

Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
V:TES National Coordinator for Brazil
Giovanni Newsletter Editor
-----------------------------------------------------
V for Vendetta on the big screen!
http://vforvendetta.warnerbros.com/

 

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In message <3q1ua15itketiaa82hm7ao65rs984ofsld@4ax.com>, "Fabio
\"Sooner\"" <fabio_sooner@NOSPAMyahoo.com.br> writes:
>Personally, I like that this card is a promo. Maybe I'm biased because
>I know that I won't get my hand on more than 3 or 4 copies of that
>card.

Two words.

E.

Bay.

(Possibly one word, but meh.)

--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

 

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On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 21:40:14 +0100, James Coupe <james@zephyr.org.uk>
wrote:

>In message <3q1ua15itketiaa82hm7ao65rs984ofsld@4ax.com>, "Fabio
>\"Sooner\"" <fabio_sooner@NOSPAMyahoo.com.br> writes:
>>Personally, I like that this card is a promo. Maybe I'm biased because
>>I know that I won't get my hand on more than 3 or 4 copies of that
>>card.
>
>Two words.
>E.
>Bay.
>(Possibly one word, but meh.)

Not worth it if I'm going to receive a number of copies of the card
that I think I need - 3 or 4 - before it gets out of circulation. That
was the original point. Sorry if it wasn't clear.

Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
V:TES National Coordinator for Brazil
Giovanni Newsletter Editor
-----------------------------------------------------
V for Vendetta on the big screen!
http://vforvendetta.warnerbros.com/