!Ventrue and Change of Target

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

I have no objective to start another 200-post discussion about "How
!Ventrue can win?" but i wanted to ask if anyone ever built a !Ventrue
deck half-bleed and half-politics using a lot Change of Target.

The "new" !Ventrues vampires seems to be really good in terms of
capacity, superior disciplines and abilities, but i usually see built
wall decks or vote with a bit of bleed.
I built recently a !Brujah bleed&vote deck taking advantadge of Iron
Glare (and Iron Heart!) and it relies a lot on Change of Target (and
little on Majesty), which have been a good performance.
I wonder if a !Ventrue deck with 10~15 Change of Target instead of the
usual Seduction/Sleeping Mind, with 50% bleed and 50% vote (you get the
idea!) wouldn't be a good strategy to put this guys more pro-active!


Thanks,
..- Luis Duarte

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Howdy Luis,

> I wonder if a !Ventrue deck with 10~15 Change of Target instead of the
> usual Seduction/Sleeping Mind, with 50% bleed and 50% vote (you get the
> idea!) wouldn't be a good strategy to put this guys more pro-active!

It certainly sounds worth trying out. I expect it would emulate what
you get with Camarilla Ventrue or Tories and loads of Majesty, except
that those two clans are better at voting (due mainly to having
Presence, but also to being Camarilla and having a better spread of
titles). Still, it might surprise me.

I should say that I'm already a great believer in Change of Target with
!Ventrue (along with the Seduction, Sleeping Mind, Bonding, etc. and
especially Revelations), but I've never tried that kind of quantity.

Give it a whirl and let us know!

Alex

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon" <luis.paleta@netcabo.pt> wrote in message news:<1119014790.044733.35930@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>...
> I have no objective to start another 200-post discussion about "How
> !Ventrue can win?" but i wanted to ask if anyone ever built a !Ventrue
> deck half-bleed and half-politics using a lot Change of Target.
>
> The "new" !Ventrues vampires seems to be really good in terms of
> capacity, superior disciplines and abilities, but i usually see built
> wall decks or vote with a bit of bleed.
> I built recently a !Brujah bleed&vote deck taking advantadge of Iron
> Glare (and Iron Heart!) and it relies a lot on Change of Target (and
> little on Majesty), which have been a good performance.
> I wonder if a !Ventrue deck with 10~15 Change of Target instead of the
> usual Seduction/Sleeping Mind, with 50% bleed and 50% vote (you get the
> idea!) wouldn't be a good strategy to put this guys more pro-active!
>
>
> Thanks,
> .- Luis Duarte

10-15 change of target is far far too much, 8 would be more than
enough. remember that it works only against wakes and forceds, if
opponets uses any card which really untaps the blocker, like animalism
untaps, 2nd tradition (which is common) or read the winds, its
useless. combined with, say, 12 freak drives is what would definitely
"put this guys more pro-active" also, consider using zillah tears,
this underestimated card works great as dual-function wake and freak
drive for free..

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon wrote:
> I have no objective to start another 200-post discussion about "How
> !Ventrue can win?" but i wanted to ask if anyone ever built a !Ventrue
> deck half-bleed and half-politics using a lot Change of Target.

Yes. I focused on the incredible Blackhorse Tanner and Kathrine
Stottard, with support from other Black Hand with aus and/or dom:
Selene, Piotr, Yasmin. Dominion was the key card. Each Change of Target
was effectively "hit a vampire for one, then do something else".

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Ransom.Stark wrote:
> "Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon" <luis.paleta@netcabo.pt> wrote in message news:<1119014790.044733.35930@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>...
> > I have no objective to start another 200-post discussion about "How
> > !Ventrue can win?" but i wanted to ask if anyone ever built a !Ventrue
> > deck half-bleed and half-politics using a lot Change of Target.
> >
> > The "new" !Ventrues vampires seems to be really good in terms of
> > capacity, superior disciplines and abilities, but i usually see built
> > wall decks or vote with a bit of bleed.
> > I built recently a !Brujah bleed&vote deck taking advantadge of Iron
> > Glare (and Iron Heart!) and it relies a lot on Change of Target (and
> > little on Majesty), which have been a good performance.
> > I wonder if a !Ventrue deck with 10~15 Change of Target instead of the
> > usual Seduction/Sleeping Mind, with 50% bleed and 50% vote (you get the
> > idea!) wouldn't be a good strategy to put this guys more pro-active!
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > .- Luis Duarte
>
> 10-15 change of target is far far too much, 8 would be more than
> enough. remember that it works only against wakes and forceds, if
> opponets uses any card which really untaps the blocker, like animalism
> untaps, 2nd tradition (which is common) or read the winds, its
> useless. combined with, say, 12 freak drives is what would definitely
> "put this guys more pro-active" also, consider using zillah tears,
> this underestimated card works great as dual-function wake and freak
> drive for free..

Also, there's gotta be some detriment to the blocker to make this deck
worthwile. When you untap in the combat with Majesty, you're untapped
afterwards and he's not...then you can draw his Forceds and WWEFs with
further bleeds.
If you have CoTs as your sole block "deterrent", the only thing they'd
ever need as defense is a single untapped 1-cap who'd, of course, stay
untapped when you play CoT.
I'd want to pack Sleeping Minds, Seductions, Croc Tongues and Kisses of
Ra plus Mind Rapes along with Art's Traumatic Essence and Anarch
Troublemakers to tap potential blockers.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon wrote:
| I wonder if a !Ventrue deck with 10~15 Change of Target instead of the
| usual Seduction/Sleeping Mind, with 50% bleed and 50% vote (you get the
| idea!) wouldn't be a good strategy to put this guys more pro-active!

It doesn't work if you rely only on Change of Target. What happens is:
your prey leaves all his vampires untapped when you get close to ousting
him, and you grind miserably to a halt. Again, Change of Target is a
means to force your prey to spend resources (Wakes) and/or take damage
(Aching Beauty, Croc. Tongue) without your vampire having to risk
themselves in combat -- and without you needing to spend any transient
resources other than the Change of Target.

Mixing Seduction with Change of Target, though, is an excellent way to
go, as you can then Seduce the untapped minion and force your prey to
burn his Wakes. Mixing this with some Bonding is even better, as you
can draw out intercept (or possibly get the action through, who knows?)

I don't like the vote angle, because you lose the vote card with Change
of Target -- so you don't create quite as large a resource differential
as you otherwise could. I'd stick with just heavy Pulse/Bonding bleed,
Freak Drive, Restoration, and lots of Change of Target (and Soak/Skin of
Steel since sometimes you'll need to get into combat to tap someone out.)

- --
Derek

insert clever quotation here

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (MingW32)

iD8DBQFCtDKXtQZlu3o7QpERAkUxAJ4lgnP+L3Q8ehNKC7CO9bFH6IHaBwCcD+n4
nTYer164oTt7DG/N1e2q3MI=
=yyQW
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Derek Ray" <lorimer@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht
news:ceydnY-Z3JcFrynfRVn-gQ@giganews.com...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
>
> I don't like the vote angle, because you lose the vote card with Change
> of Target -- so you don't create quite as large a resource differential
> as you otherwise could. I'd stick with just heavy Pulse/Bonding bleed,
> Freak Drive, Restoration, and lots of Change of Target (and Soak/Skin of
> Steel since sometimes you'll need to get into combat to tap someone out.)

I would try to add Steal the Mind. It's a must block against this kind of
deck. Yeah, I know, Mind Numb is better, but this was about a !ventrue
deck, right?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

>Mixing Seduction with Change of Target, though, is an excellent way to
>go, as you can then Seduce the untapped minion and force your prey to
>burn his Wakes. Mixing this with some Bonding is even better, as you
>can draw out intercept (or possibly get the action through, who knows?)

This is the option that i like most. Maybe add some other cards
depending on the local game environment; every deck here has plenty of
fortitude (Kiss of Ra is corner case) and there are very few animalism
wall decks.
I didn't refer the use of Anarch Troublemaker and Misdirection.

..- Luis Duarte

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon" <luis.paleta@netcabo.pt> wrote in message news:<1119364602.824884.154860@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>...
> >Mixing Seduction with Change of Target, though, is an excellent way to
> >go, as you can then Seduce the untapped minion and force your prey to
> >burn his Wakes. Mixing this with some Bonding is even better, as you
> >can draw out intercept (or possibly get the action through, who knows?)
>
> This is the option that i like most. Maybe add some other cards
> depending on the local game environment; every deck here has plenty of
> fortitude (Kiss of Ra is corner case) and there are very few animalism
> wall decks.
> I didn't refer the use of Anarch Troublemaker and Misdirection.
>
> .- Luis Duarte


I would like to try Quentin, Mallenhaus and Gerard, and master of OBT with
5 Shadow Play
5 Seduction
5 Crododrile's Tongue
5 Change of Target
5 Assortment of other OBT cards, Kiss of Ra, The Sleeping Mind

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Actually i already tryied the OBT approach and i felt that the inferior
obtenebration (even playing with OBT master discipline cards) and the
high cap was not very effective. (using only !Ventrue in the crypt).
Despite i was always one of the last players in the table, i never
could get good results.
..- Luis Duarte

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Chris Shorb a écrit :

> Here is a deck I won a small storyline tournament with. It features the
> Anarch Troublemaker/Change of Target combo (I call it the Reyda, because I
> saw him use it first in a Daughters of Cacophany deck).

i'm famous, i'm famous !


> Deck Name: Manage Effectively
> Created By: chris shorb
> Description: Edward Nealy rocks!

Yes, Edward neally isa great addition to the !ventrue. His special is
like a mini-dreams of the sphinx + one time revelation. And is perfect
for baiting when you have a kiss of ra in hand.

I never tried the trap/undead persistence angle. You gave me a beautiful
idea for a combo that i shall name the shorb in return