Classic Voting Torries [DECK]

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I was about to dismiss this deck i created but i opted for posting it
first just that i won't forget it:

3 Alex
3 Anson
2 Anneke
4 weenies torries (for the grand ball)

3 Dreams of the Sphynx
2 Info Hw
2 Zillah's Valley
1 Art Museum
5 Toreador Grand Ball
6 Minion Tap
4 Golconda
1 Giant's Blood
--24

19 Political Actions

7 2nd tradition
7 deflection
5 Obedience
-- 19

5 Voter Cap
5 Bewitching Oration
5 Change of Target
--20

8 Majesty
5 Disengage
 
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> 3 Alex
> 3 Anson
> 2 Anneke
> 4 weenies torries (for the grand ball)


I'd say that the crypt is too heavy on the top end. You have to ask
yourself what the likelihood really is that you bring out Alexandra,
Anson, and Anneke at the same time. If you can't do it, you're better
off not using all three. Personally I would be wary of running only 3
Ansons with 24 Master cards, none of which are trifles or The
Parthenon. You might very well play games where you don't get him and
jam on those. And your interpretation of having the weenies there only
"for the grand ball" is a mistake. Weenies rock, possibly more so in
title-heavy politcal decks than anywhere else. A 2 cap with pre can
call a non-titled vote almost as easily as a 10 cap can, since your
other vamps' titles will win it for you (in theory). A 2 cap with aus
can block critical actions and get in the way when rushers attack your
fatties. A 2 cap with cel can take just about whatever actions it
wants using combat defense and its own utter expendability to increase
your actions/turn. So I would say to drop one of the 3 fatties,
possibly Anson, whose skills are not fully realized with only 24
Masters anyhow, and throw in more weenies and midcaps. You can't win
with only 2 vampires taking actions, and if you one or both gets
torporized or burned, you're done--or at least dramatically slowed
down.
>
> 3 Dreams of the Sphynx
> 2 Info Hw
> 2 Zillah's Valley
> 1 Art Museum
> 5 Toreador Grand Ball
> 6 Minion Tap
> 4 Golconda
> 1 Giant's Blood
> --24

3 Dreams is too much IMO. It is unique after all. And 5 Grand Balls
is WAY too many. I would also replacing some of the Minion Tap with
Blood Dolls. Minion Tap gives you a nice quick fix, but BD can
generate more pool in the long run and it's a super-flexible permanent
card.

> 19 Political Actions

Which ones?

> 7 2nd tradition
> 7 deflection
> 5 Obedience
> -- 19

Your vamps with dom all have only the inferior level, and they are all
very big. For such vampires, Redirection is often better than
deflection, since almost everyone you want to deflect will be younger,
you're tapping at basic Deflection anyhow, and it's free.

> 5 Voter Cap
> 5 Bewitching Oration
> 5 Change of Target

Sure.

> 8 Majesty
> 5 Disengage

Man, you have CEL. Use it. The Majesties are fine, but I'd recommend
ditching the Disengages for less specialized combat defense. Flash is
amazing for defense, since you can use both to run away from a POT
rusher and press to end in the same round. Sideslip, Praeternatural
Evasion, Staredown, and Vampiric Speed are decent options too.

That's all from me right now. Good luck.
Cthulukitty
 
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OK, so anson out...
should i put Tatiana Romanov? or should i switch anneke for Madame
Guille and Fleurdumal/Ira Rivers?
And basically i need more combat, more CEL combat...
lets see...
5 Flash
2 Sideslip
and take out the obedience if i take out anneke.
 
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On Thu, 23 Jun 2005, Omael wrote:

> OK, so anson out...
> should i put Tatiana Romanov? or should i switch anneke for Madame
> Guille and Fleurdumal/Ira Rivers?
> And basically i need more combat, more CEL combat...
> lets see...
> 5 Flash
> 2 Sideslip
> and take out the obedience if i take out anneke.

I'm not sure I'd make those changes. Guess it depends on what you expect
to face. I thought the deck looked quite strong. With all the Minion
Taps and Golcondas as well as the Dreams, Zillah's and Info Highways it
looked to me like a very playable crypt, especially since some of your 19
unspecified political actions should be Parity Shift.

Also, the CEL combat could be good, but I think you really want
card-efficiency. You've got Majesty, Disengage (too many if nobody is
restricting your strikes), Obedience and Golconda. That's probably more
combat defense than you'll need a lot of time.

The only real suggestion I'd make is to put in Anthelios. Looks like the
kind of deck one plays when one really want to win.

Matt Morgan
 
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> OK, so anson out...
> should i put Tatiana Romanov? or should i switch anneke for Madame
> Guille and Fleurdumal/Ira Rivers?

Personally I would stick with G1 Toreador. The G3s are good, but
Anneke rocks, and there's such great midcap support that there's little
need to switch over unless you're going for huge bleed, which G3 does
great.

> And basically i need more combat, more CEL combat...
> lets see...
> 5 Flash
> 2 Sideslip
> and take out the obedience if i take out anneke.

Good call on the CEL stuff. I would leave in Anneke and the
obediences. With all your pool gain, 2 fatties is doable. 3 wasn't,
but 2 is. Anneke can also play PTO if Alexandra is unavailabe, which
rocks. Political decks with the ability to control the table are
really good, and Anneke is the girl for the job any night of the year.
Look at the midcaps seriously. They can often do as much in a turn as
a 10cap can, and they provide excellent support. Tatiana is ok for 1
copy IMO. Her disciplines are awful for a 7, but her title and +1
bleed can make up for that if used properly. She's also good if you
get into a situation where you need a Prince out ASAP. Rake is good
like that too, and he fits very nicely with the Tory disciplines.
Tory+Brujah is a good mix in general; I have an intercept combat deck
with Anneke and friends that runs 3 Brujah to round out the crypt and
provide an extra HG.

Cthulukitty
 
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Sorry about not posting them, they are something like:
4 Parity Shift
2 PTO
1 Ancient Influence
1 Reins of Power
1 Political Stranglehouse
3 Banishment
1 Anarchist Uprising
4 KRC
 
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"Omael" <omael.rangel@gmail.com> wrote in message news:<1119385771.483000.149880@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>...
> I was about to dismiss this deck i created but i opted for posting it
> first just that i won't forget it:
>
> 3 Alex
> 3 Anson
> 2 Anneke
> 4 weenies torries (for the grand ball)
>
> 3 Dreams of the Sphynx
> 2 Info Hw
> 2 Zillah's Valley
> 1 Art Museum
> 5 Toreador Grand Ball
> 6 Minion Tap
> 4 Golconda
> 1 Giant's Blood
> --24
>
> 19 Political Actions
>
> 7 2nd tradition
> 7 deflection
> 5 Obedience
> -- 19
>
> 5 Voter Cap
> 5 Bewitching Oration
> 5 Change of Target
> --20
>
> 8 Majesty
> 5 Disengage

1 dominate master will be certainly good adition - deflections,
obedience, self golconda. 1 dreams slot will be fine to swap for it.
Also I suggest to add athelios. Sometimes it is good to banish your
own vamp (serving to grand ball) to get rid of do that do not untap
effect ;).
 
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"Omael" <omael.rangel@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119385771.483000.149880@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>I was about to dismiss this deck i created but i opted for posting it
> first just that i won't forget it:
>
> 3 Alex
> 3 Anson
> 2 Anneke
> 4 weenies torries (for the grand ball)

Drop the Ansons and add Masikas instead. He is awesome for Toreador Grand
Balls.


--
Comments Welcome,
Norman S. Brown, Jr
XZealot
Archon of the Swamp
 
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matkov wrote:
> 1 dominate master will be certainly good adition - deflections,
> obedience, self golconda. 1 dreams slot will be fine to swap for it.
> Also I suggest to add athelios. Sometimes it is good to banish your
> own vamp (serving to grand ball) to get rid of do that do not untap
> effect ;).

Banishing (and then subsequently re-influencing out) a Toreador who
won't untap due to the Toreador Grand Ball won't change anything -- they
still won't untap as long as the TGB is in play. You'd need to send
them through the ash heap to do that.

--Colin McGuigan
 
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Colin McGuigan <maguaSPAM@BGONEspeakeasy.net> wrote in message news:<j4GdnYslJKt0kCHfRVn-hQ@speakeasy.net>...
> matkov wrote:
> > 1 dominate master will be certainly good adition - deflections,
> > obedience, self golconda. 1 dreams slot will be fine to swap for it.
> > Also I suggest to add athelios. Sometimes it is good to banish your
> > own vamp (serving to grand ball) to get rid of do that do not untap
> > effect ;).
>
> Banishing (and then subsequently re-influencing out) a Toreador who
> won't untap due to the Toreador Grand Ball won't change anything -- they
> still won't untap as long as the TGB is in play. You'd need to send
> them through the ash heap to do that.
>
> --Colin McGuigan

I think that Banishing them would be like when you banish a vampire
that just did sensory deprivation, when the toreador enters to the
game anew the effect isn't valid for him anymore.

Any comments, LSJ?
 
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On 24 Jun 2005 14:38:42 -0700, omael.rangel@gmail.com (Omael)
scrawled:

>Colin McGuigan <maguaSPAM@BGONEspeakeasy.net> wrote in message news:<j4GdnYslJKt0kCHfRVn-hQ@speakeasy.net>...
>> matkov wrote:
>> > 1 dominate master will be certainly good adition - deflections,
>> > obedience, self golconda. 1 dreams slot will be fine to swap for it.
>> > Also I suggest to add athelios. Sometimes it is good to banish your
>> > own vamp (serving to grand ball) to get rid of do that do not untap
>> > effect ;).
>>
>> Banishing (and then subsequently re-influencing out) a Toreador who
>> won't untap due to the Toreador Grand Ball won't change anything -- they
>> still won't untap as long as the TGB is in play. You'd need to send
>> them through the ash heap to do that.
>>
>> --Colin McGuigan
>
>I think that Banishing them would be like when you banish a vampire
>that just did sensory deprivation, when the toreador enters to the
>game anew the effect isn't valid for him anymore.
>
>Any comments, LSJ?

Sensory Deprivation has different text to Toreador Grand Ball. SD
'turns off' when the acting vampire leaves play, and has no mechanism
to 'turn back on'. TGB is 'always on', as long as it can see the
vampire. the thing with the ash heap trip is, once you've been 'to the
other side and back' you (the vampire card) are considered a
completely different instance of the card, so TGB won't be able to see
you anymore. trips through the uncontrolled region do not cause you to
be 'changed' into a new vampire like that.

salem
http://www.users.tpg.com.au/adsltqna/VtES/index.htm
(replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)
 
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salem wrote:
> On 24 Jun 2005 14:38:42 -0700, omael.rangel@gmail.com (Omael)
>>Colin McGuigan <maguaSPAM@BGONEspeakeasy.net> wrote in message news:<j4GdnYslJKt0kCHfRVn-hQ@speakeasy.net>...
>>>Banishing (and then subsequently re-influencing out) a Toreador who
>>>won't untap due to the Toreador Grand Ball won't change anything -- they
>>>still won't untap as long as the TGB is in play. You'd need to send
>>>them through the ash heap to do that.
>>
>>I think that Banishing them would be like when you banish a vampire
>>that just did sensory deprivation, when the toreador enters to the
>>game anew the effect isn't valid for him anymore.
>>
>>Any comments, LSJ?
>
> Sensory Deprivation has different text to Toreador Grand Ball. SD
> 'turns off' when the acting vampire leaves play, and has no mechanism
> to 'turn back on'. TGB is 'always on', as long as it can see the
> vampire. the thing with the ash heap trip is, once you've been 'to the
> other side and back' you (the vampire card) are considered a
> completely different instance of the card, so TGB won't be able to see
> you anymore. trips through the uncontrolled region do not cause you to
> be 'changed' into a new vampire like that.

Correct.

--
LSJ (vtesrepSPAM@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (remove spam trap to reply)
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
 

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