[LSJ] Life Boon & Withdrawal

[pat]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

The setup:

In the endgame of a 5-player table, we're down to A preying on B preying on
C.

Not that it really matters for the Life Boon question, but C has 2 VP so
far.

B has played a Life Boon against A, and it's still in play.

B ousts C.

A & B mutually withdraw. Does the Boon steal A's withdrawal VP?

I.e., does the game wind up

(1) 3 VP B, 2 VP C

or

(2) 2 VP B, 2 VP C, 1 VP A

Because of an existing ruling on stealing a simultaneously-earned VP, I
think (1), but neither I nor my Senior Executive VP of Rulemongering could
find confirmation.

Thanks in advance,
Pat

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Pat wrote:
> The setup:
>
> In the endgame of a 5-player table, we're down to A preying on B preying on
> C.
>
> Not that it really matters for the Life Boon question, but C has 2 VP so
> far.
>
> B has played a Life Boon against A, and it's still in play.
>
> B ousts C.
>
> A & B mutually withdraw. Does the Boon steal A's withdrawal VP?
>
> I.e., does the game wind up
>
> (1) 3 VP B, 2 VP C
>
> or
>
> (2) 2 VP B, 2 VP C, 1 VP A
>
> Because of an existing ruling on stealing a simultaneously-earned VP, I
> think (1), but neither I nor my Senior Executive VP of Rulemongering could
> find confirmation.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Pat

Looking at the previous rulings, i think you're right. The only
instance where you don't get a VP is when you're ousted first. Although
you could argue that there is no "mutual withdrawal"...rather one meth
allows the other to withdraw without interfering. If B is the one
withdrawing, you could argue then(don't know if i'm right there) that B
leaves the game first, all his cards are burned and the LB not in play
anymore when A gets his VP, so it isn't stolen.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

I think if A withdraws, then B gets A's VP, and the score is B 3VPs, C
2 VPs. I'm not sure about this, though.

If B withdraws, then the Life Boon is out of play and the game is over
when A earns his VP, so it's not possible for the Life Boon to steal
it. Thus, the score would be B 2VPs, C 2VPs, A 1VP. I feel confident
in this ruling due to a similar case with withdrawls and Brinksmanship.

Ira

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Pat wrote:
> The setup:
>
> In the endgame of a 5-player table, we're down to A preying on B preying on
> C.
>
> Not that it really matters for the Life Boon question, but C has 2 VP so
> far.
>
> B has played a Life Boon against A, and it's still in play.
>
> B ousts C.
>
> A & B mutually withdraw. Does the Boon steal A's withdrawal VP?

No. The Life Boon won't steal "as B is leaves play".

> I.e., does the game wind up
>
> (1) 3 VP B, 2 VP C
>
> or
>
> (2) 2 VP B, 2 VP C, 1 VP A

(2)

> Because of an existing ruling on stealing a simultaneously-earned VP, I
> think (1), but neither I nor my Senior Executive VP of Rulemongering could
> find confirmation.

If B has a Life Boon on A and A ousts B, B doesn't get the VP (since
it comes "as B leaves play"). Similarly with other cases where B is
leaving play simultaneously with VP awards.

--
LSJ (vtesrepSPAM@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (remove spam trap to reply)
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

LSJ wrote:
> Pat wrote:
> > The setup:
> >
> > In the endgame of a 5-player table, we're down to A preying on B preying on
> > C.
> >
> > Not that it really matters for the Life Boon question, but C has 2 VP so
> > far.
> >
> > B has played a Life Boon against A, and it's still in play.
> >
> > B ousts C.
> >
> > A & B mutually withdraw. Does the Boon steal A's withdrawal VP?
>
> No. The Life Boon won't steal "as B is leaves play".
>
> > I.e., does the game wind up
> >
> > (1) 3 VP B, 2 VP C
> >
> > or
> >
> > (2) 2 VP B, 2 VP C, 1 VP A
>
> (2)
>
> > Because of an existing ruling on stealing a simultaneously-earned VP, I
> > think (1), but neither I nor my Senior Executive VP of Rulemongering could
> > find confirmation.
>
> If B has a Life Boon on A and A ousts B, B doesn't get the VP (since
> it comes "as B leaves play"). Similarly with other cases where B is
> leaving play simultaneously with VP awards.

Huh, I knew that about B being ousted, but thought that for other "the
game is now over simultaneous with when the Life Boon would get this
VP" situations (ie ones where the Life Boon-playing Methuselah has not
been ousted), the Life Boon would still be able to grab a VP.

My line of thought derived from the ruling that a Life Boon will get
the 0.5 VP from a Booned Methuselah who has survived to time being
called in a VEKN tournament.
(http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/c5060eba4e347f81)
It seems to me that that situation is pretty similar to a withdrawal
ending the game before time is called - in either case, the game is
over when the VP is awarded, which means the Life Boon card would
normally be out of play.


Josh

just stopping by

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

jtduffin@yahoo.com wrote:
> LSJ wrote:
>>Pat wrote:
>>>B has played a Life Boon against A, and it's still in play.
>>>A & B mutually withdraw. Does the Boon steal A's withdrawal VP?
>>
>>No. The Life Boon won't steal "as B is leaves play".
>>
>>If B has a Life Boon on A and A ousts B, B doesn't get the VP (since
>>it comes "as B leaves play"). Similarly with other cases where B is
>>leaving play simultaneously with VP awards.
>
> Huh, I knew that about B being ousted, but thought that for other "the
> game is now over simultaneous with when the Life Boon would get this
> VP" situations (ie ones where the Life Boon-playing Methuselah has not
> been ousted), the Life Boon would still be able to grab a VP.

No. The Life Boon has to be in play. If B withdraws, the
Life Boon leaves play in exactly the same way it would if
he were ousted.

> My line of thought derived from the ruling that a Life Boon will get
> the 0.5 VP from a Booned Methuselah who has survived to time being
> called in a VEKN tournament.

When time is called, the Methuselah has not been ousted and has not
withdrawn. Ousted and withdrawn Methuselahs do not get 0.5 VPs for
still being in the game when time is called. If he's getting 0.5 VP,
he must still be in the game, and so his Life Boon is still in the
game, and so it will collect the target's 0.5 VP as well.

> (http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/c5060eba4e347f81)
> It seems to me that that situation is pretty similar to a withdrawal
> ending the game before time is called - in either case, the game is
> over when the VP is awarded, which means the Life Boon card would
> normally be out of play.

Not similar. In one case, you are "still in the game" (a prerequisite
for getting 0.5 VPs). In the other, you are not.

Consider High Museum of Art, Atlanta.

Officially, if you have 2 pool (and HMoA,A) when time is called, you get
0.5 VP for still being in the game.

Your way, you would lose the HMoA,A, which would oust you before you
could get 0.5 VP.

--
LSJ (vtesrepSPAM@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (remove spam trap to reply)
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

> No. The Life Boon has to be in play. If B withdraws, the
> Life Boon leaves play in exactly the same way it would if
> he were ousted.

What if A withdraws, instead of B?

Ira

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

ira212@gmail.com wrote:
>>No. The Life Boon has to be in play. If B withdraws, the
>>Life Boon leaves play in exactly the same way it would if
>>he were ousted.
>
>
> What if A withdraws, instead of B?

?
B gets A's point for withdrawing, by card text.

--
LSJ (vtesrepSPAM@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (remove spam trap to reply)
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

 

[pat]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"LSJ" <vtesrepSPAM@TRAPwhite-wolf.com> wrote in message
news:yHove.13153$eM6.9977@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> ira212@gmail.com wrote:
>>>No. The Life Boon has to be in play. If B withdraws, the
>>>Life Boon leaves play in exactly the same way it would if
>>>he were ousted.
>>
>>
>> What if A withdraws, instead of B?
>
> ?
> B gets A's point for withdrawing, by card text.
>
> --
> LSJ (vtesrepSPAM@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (remove spam trap to
> reply)
> Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
> http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
>

This all makes sense now... I was erroneously thinking that "mutual
withdrawal" would be the same thing as "simultaneous withdrawal," which, of
course, it's not.

Even if A & B agree to withdraw, one of them has to succeed at the
withdrawal first, and that order of withdrawal determines whether the Life
Boon kicks in or not.

Thanks for the assistance, all.

- Pat