Grappling feats

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Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Sooner or later I'll need some feats for my grappling monk.
Preferably with Improved Grapple as a prereq.

So far I couldn't find feat chains basing on IG!?
I thought about the following feats for a start and
humbly ask for comments and criticism, as usual

-----------------------------------------------------

Greater Grapple [General]
Your grappling skills get even better.

Prerequisites:
Dex 13, Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple

Benefit:
You don't lose your Dexterity bonus to AC (if you have one)
against opponents you aren't grappling and you gain an
additional +4 bonus on all grapple checks, regardless of whether
you started the grapple.

Special:
A fighter may select Greater Grapple as one of his fighter
bonus feats.
A monk only needs Improved Grapple as a prerequisite.

-----------------------------------------------------

Grapple Counter [General]
You can escape from a grapple without loosing time.

Prerequisites:
Dex 13, Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Greater Grapple

Benefit:
You can take the "Escape from Grapple" action by winning an
opposed grapple check as a swift action.
You can use it either on your turn as normal or when you are
allowed and declare to make an attack of opportunity against
a foe in an adjacent square.
If you fail to escape from the grapple, you can't make the attack
of opportunity, but the attempt counts against your number of
attacks of opportunity for the round.

Normal:
The "Escape from Grapple" action by winning an opposed grapple check
is an attack action usable only on your turn.

Special:
A fighter may select Grapple Counter as one of his fighter bonus
feats.
A monk only needs Improved Grapple and Greater Grapple
as a prerequisite.

-----------------------------------------------------

LL

 

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Lorenz.Lang@gmx.de wrote:
>
> Sooner or later I'll need some feats for my grappling monk.
> Preferably with Improved Grapple as a prereq.
>
> So far I couldn't find feat chains basing on IG!?
> I thought about the following feats for a start and
> humbly ask for comments and criticism, as usual

I can't really speak to balance - just woke up - but they don't conflict with
the feats from Complete Warrior, which is a good thing.

You should look into them: Clever Wrestling for when you want to escape from a
grapple with larger creatures, Close-Quarters Fighting for preventing grapples
you don't want from beginning (knowing when not to wrestle is a good idea for a
relatively squishy monk), Earth's Embrace for extra damage in a pin.

--
Christopher Adams - Sydney, Australia
The geek with roots in Hell!
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/prestigeclasslist.html
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/templatelist.html

Who do you blame when your kid is a - brat?
Pampered and spoiled like a Siamese - cat?
Blaming the kids is a lie and a - shame!
You know exactly who's - to - blame:
The mother and the father!

 

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Christopher Adams wrote:
> Lorenz.Lang@gmx.de wrote:
> >
> > Sooner or later I'll need some feats for my grappling monk.
> > Preferably with Improved Grapple as a prereq.
> >
> > So far I couldn't find feat chains basing on IG!?
> > I thought about the following feats for a start and
> > humbly ask for comments and criticism, as usual
>
> I can't really speak to balance - just woke up - but they don't conflict with
> the feats from Complete Warrior, which is a good thing.

T'was pure luck - I don't own that book.

> You should look into them: Clever Wrestling for when you want to escape from > a grapple with larger creatures, Close-Quarters Fighting for preventing
> grapples you don't want from beginning (knowing when not to wrestle is a
> good idea for a relatively squishy monk),

Squishy as in rotten tomato or overripe banana?
Usually he wants to grapple...
He's Lvl 7 with 47 Hpts and Str 16, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha
11
(Next level stat boost will be Wis obviously.)

> Earth's Embrace for extra damage in a pin.

That sounds really interesting for my "Python Kung Fu" monk.

LL

 

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Lorenz.Lang@gmx.de wrote:
> Sooner or later I'll need some feats for my grappling monk.
> Preferably with Improved Grapple as a prereq.
>
> So far I couldn't find feat chains basing on IG!?
> I thought about the following feats for a start and
> humbly ask for comments and criticism, as usual
>
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
> Greater Grapple [General]
> Your grappling skills get even better.
>
> Prerequisites:
> Dex 13, Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple
>
> Benefit:
> You don't lose your Dexterity bonus to AC (if you have one)
> against opponents you aren't grappling and you gain an
> additional +4 bonus on all grapple checks, regardless of whether
> you started the grapple.
>
> Special:
> A fighter may select Greater Grapple as one of his fighter
> bonus feats.
> A monk only needs Improved Grapple as a prerequisite.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------

IMO, this is unbalanced. There's a reason you can't take Improved
Grapple twice. There's a reason why Greater Weapon Focus has such
strict prerequisites. Stacking things like this is just not safe for
game balance.

I'd allow this to give +2. _Maybe_. I actually think that's probably
still too powerful.

> Grapple Counter [General]
> You can escape from a grapple without loosing time.

(spelling issue: it's "losing")

> Prerequisites:
> Dex 13, Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Greater Grapple
>
> Benefit:
> You can take the "Escape from Grapple" action by winning an
> opposed grapple check as a swift action.
> You can use it either on your turn as normal or when you are
> allowed and declare to make an attack of opportunity against
> a foe in an adjacent square.
> If you fail to escape from the grapple, you can't make the attack
> of opportunity, but the attempt counts against your number of
> attacks of opportunity for the round.
>
> Normal:
> The "Escape from Grapple" action by winning an opposed grapple check
> is an attack action usable only on your turn.
>
> Special:
> A fighter may select Grapple Counter as one of his fighter bonus
> feats.
> A monk only needs Improved Grapple and Greater Grapple
> as a prerequisite.

The bit about the monk is unnecessary for both feats. Monks get
Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat at level 1, so there's really
no point in _not_ requiring them to have it.

Mechanics-wise, this feat is confusing. You can use it to escape a
grapple when you get an AoO against an adjacent square? But you don't
get AoOs against adjacent squares while grappling! So how exactly does
this work?

Balance-wise, the feat seems OK, though.

Laszlo

 

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chaoslight@gmail.com wrote:
> Lorenz.Lang@gmx.de wrote:
> > Sooner or later I'll need some feats for my grappling monk.
> > Preferably with Improved Grapple as a prereq.
> >
> > So far I couldn't find feat chains basing on IG!?
> > I thought about the following feats for a start and
> > humbly ask for comments and criticism, as usual
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Greater Grapple [General]
> > Your grappling skills get even better.
> >
> > Prerequisites:
> > Dex 13, Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple
> >
> > Benefit:
> > You don't lose your Dexterity bonus to AC (if you have one)
> > against opponents you aren't grappling and you gain an
> > additional +4 bonus on all grapple checks, regardless of whether
> > you started the grapple.
> >
> > Special:
> > A fighter may select Greater Grapple as one of his fighter
> > bonus feats.
> > A monk only needs Improved Grapple as a prerequisite.
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------
>
> IMO, this is unbalanced. There's a reason you can't take Improved
> Grapple twice. There's a reason why Greater Weapon Focus has such
> strict prerequisites. Stacking things like this is just not safe for
> game balance.
>
> I'd allow this to give +2. _Maybe_. I actually think that's probably
> still too powerful.
>
> > Grapple Counter [General]
> > You can escape from a grapple without loosing time.
>
> (spelling issue: it's "losing")

Thanks. I do my very best...doesn't it sound more like 'noose'
than 'hose'? If true, I'll take it as an excuse.

> > Prerequisites:
> > Dex 13, Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Greater Grapple
> >
> > Benefit:
> > You can take the "Escape from Grapple" action by winning an
> > opposed grapple check as a swift action.
> > You can use it either on your turn as normal or when you are
> > allowed and declare to make an attack of opportunity against
> > a foe in an adjacent square.
> > If you fail to escape from the grapple, you can't make the attack
> > of opportunity, but the attempt counts against your number of
> > attacks of opportunity for the round.
> >
> > Normal:
> > The "Escape from Grapple" action by winning an opposed grapple check
> > is an attack action usable only on your turn.
> >
> > Special:
> > A fighter may select Grapple Counter as one of his fighter bonus
> > feats.
> > A monk only needs Improved Grapple and Greater Grapple
> > as a prerequisite.
>
> The bit about the monk is unnecessary for both feats. Monks get
> Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat at level 1, so there's really
> no point in _not_ requiring them to have it.

It's because of the Dex 13 prereq of IG, which monks don't have to
fulfill.
IUS could be a prereq without harm, you're right.

> Mechanics-wise, this feat is confusing. You can use it to escape a
> grapple when you get an AoO against an adjacent square? But you don't
> get AoOs against adjacent squares while grappling! So how exactly does
> this work?

As written, it doesn't!
How embarrassing...

> Balance-wise, the feat seems OK, though.

If the GG feat above is unbalanced with the +4, this could be
replaced with the ability to threaten within your unarmed attacks
range.
Since it's a prereq. for Grapple Counter (BTW I'm not happy with the
name)
this smart move would heal both feats.

What do you think?

LL

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Lorenz.Lang@gmx.de wrote:
> chaoslight@gmail.com wrote:
> > Lorenz.Lang@gmx.de wrote:
> > > Sooner or later I'll need some feats for my grappling monk.
> > > Preferably with Improved Grapple as a prereq.
> > >
> > > So far I couldn't find feat chains basing on IG!?
> > > I thought about the following feats for a start and
> > > humbly ask for comments and criticism, as usual
> > >
> > > -----------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Greater Grapple [General]
> > > Your grappling skills get even better.
> > >
> > > Prerequisites:
> > > Dex 13, Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple
> > >
> > > Benefit:
> > > You don't lose your Dexterity bonus to AC (if you have one)
> > > against opponents you aren't grappling and you gain an
> > > additional +4 bonus on all grapple checks, regardless of whether
> > > you started the grapple.
> > >
> > > Special:
> > > A fighter may select Greater Grapple as one of his fighter
> > > bonus feats.
> > > A monk only needs Improved Grapple as a prerequisite.
> > >
> > > -----------------------------------------------------
> >
> > IMO, this is unbalanced. There's a reason you can't take Improved
> > Grapple twice. There's a reason why Greater Weapon Focus has such
> > strict prerequisites. Stacking things like this is just not safe for
> > game balance.
> >
> > I'd allow this to give +2. _Maybe_. I actually think that's probably
> > still too powerful.
> >
> > > Grapple Counter [General]
> > > You can escape from a grapple without loosing time.
> >
> > (spelling issue: it's "losing")
>
> Thanks. I do my very best...doesn't it sound more like 'noose'
> than 'hose'? If true, I'll take it as an excuse.

Sure, it's true. Though it actually rhymes with "booze", not "noose".
And "loose" _is_ a word, just not the word you wanted. "Loose" means
"not tight".

But English is like that. Check out this poem:

http://www.learnenglish.org.uk/stories/poem_act/pronunciation_poem.html

> > > Prerequisites:
> > > Dex 13, Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Greater Grapple
> > >
> > > Benefit:
> > > You can take the "Escape from Grapple" action by winning an
> > > opposed grapple check as a swift action.
> > > You can use it either on your turn as normal or when you are
> > > allowed and declare to make an attack of opportunity against
> > > a foe in an adjacent square.
> > > If you fail to escape from the grapple, you can't make the attack
> > > of opportunity, but the attempt counts against your number of
> > > attacks of opportunity for the round.
> > >
> > > Normal:
> > > The "Escape from Grapple" action by winning an opposed grapple check
> > > is an attack action usable only on your turn.
> > >
> > > Special:
> > > A fighter may select Grapple Counter as one of his fighter bonus
> > > feats.
> > > A monk only needs Improved Grapple and Greater Grapple
> > > as a prerequisite.
> >
> > The bit about the monk is unnecessary for both feats. Monks get
> > Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat at level 1, so there's really
> > no point in _not_ requiring them to have it.
>
> It's because of the Dex 13 prereq of IG, which monks don't have to
> fulfill.
> IUS could be a prereq without harm, you're right.

Good point, I guess I missed the Dex 13.

> > Mechanics-wise, this feat is confusing. You can use it to escape a
> > grapple when you get an AoO against an adjacent square? But you don't
> > get AoOs against adjacent squares while grappling! So how exactly does
> > this work?
>
> As written, it doesn't!
> How embarrassing...
>
> > Balance-wise, the feat seems OK, though.
>
> If the GG feat above is unbalanced with the +4, this could be
> replaced with the ability to threaten within your unarmed attacks
> range.
> Since it's a prereq. for Grapple Counter (BTW I'm not happy with the
> name)
> this smart move would heal both feats.
>
> What do you think?

I like it! So GG allows you to keep your Dex bonus and to threaten
adjacent squares. Much better, IMO.

Perhaps Grapple Counter should also allow you to make an Escape Artist
check instead of the grapple check to escape, though?

Laszlo

 

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chaoslight@gmail.com wrote:
> I like it! So GG allows you to keep your Dex bonus and to threaten
> adjacent squares. Much better, IMO.
>
> Perhaps Grapple Counter should also allow you to make an Escape Artist
> check instead of the grapple check to escape, though?
>
> Laszlo

I don't have any of the non-core books, and I'm on my way out of the
office so I don't have time to work it up, but is there a feat that
enables the grappler to _throw_ the opponent to another square?

End result would be victim (on a successful check of some sort) would
be prone in an adjacent square (e.g., next to the rogue or raging,
power attacking barbarian). Depending on the grappler's strength, the
victim could be thrown several squares away, possibly invoking AoO's
along the way.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

chaoslight@gmail.com wrote:
> Lorenz.Lang@gmx.de wrote:
> > chaoslight@gmail.com wrote:
> > > Lorenz.Lang@gmx.de wrote:
> > > > Sooner or later I'll need some feats for my grappling monk.
> > > > Preferably with Improved Grapple as a prereq.
> > > >
> > > > So far I couldn't find feat chains basing on IG!?
> > > > I thought about the following feats for a start and
> > > > humbly ask for comments and criticism, as usual
> > > >
> > > > -----------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Greater Grapple [General]
> > > > Your grappling skills get even better.
> > > >
> > > > Prerequisites:
> > > > Dex 13, Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple
> > > >
> > > > Benefit:
> > > > You don't lose your Dexterity bonus to AC (if you have one)
> > > > against opponents you aren't grappling and you gain an
> > > > additional +4 bonus on all grapple checks, regardless of whether
> > > > you started the grapple.
> > > >
> > > > Special:
> > > > A fighter may select Greater Grapple as one of his fighter
> > > > bonus feats.
> > > > A monk only needs Improved Grapple as a prerequisite.
> > > >
> > > > -----------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > IMO, this is unbalanced. There's a reason you can't take Improved
> > > Grapple twice. There's a reason why Greater Weapon Focus has such
> > > strict prerequisites. Stacking things like this is just not safe for
> > > game balance.
> > >
> > > I'd allow this to give +2. _Maybe_. I actually think that's probably
> > > still too powerful.
> > >
> > > > Grapple Counter [General]
> > > > You can escape from a grapple without loosing time.
> > >
> > > (spelling issue: it's "losing")
> >
> > Thanks. I do my very best...doesn't it sound more like 'noose'
> > than 'hose'? If true, I'll take it as an excuse.
>
> Sure, it's true. Though it actually rhymes with "booze", not "noose".
> And "loose" _is_ a word, just not the word you wanted. "Loose" means
> "not tight".
>
> But English is like that. Check out this poem:
>
> http://www.learnenglish.org.uk/stories/poem_act/pronunciation_poem.html

Gaaahhhh.
You're all lucky to read and not hear what I state.


> > > > Prerequisites:
> > > > Dex 13, Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Greater Grapple
> > > >
> > > > Benefit:
> > > > You can take the "Escape from Grapple" action by winning an
> > > > opposed grapple check as a swift action.
> > > > You can use it either on your turn as normal or when you are
> > > > allowed and declare to make an attack of opportunity against
> > > > a foe in an adjacent square.
> > > > If you fail to escape from the grapple, you can't make the attack
> > > > of opportunity, but the attempt counts against your number of
> > > > attacks of opportunity for the round.
> > > >
> > > > Normal:
> > > > The "Escape from Grapple" action by winning an opposed grapple check
> > > > is an attack action usable only on your turn.
> > > >
> > > > Special:
> > > > A fighter may select Grapple Counter as one of his fighter bonus
> > > > feats.
> > > > A monk only needs Improved Grapple and Greater Grapple
> > > > as a prerequisite.
> > >
> > > The bit about the monk is unnecessary for both feats. Monks get
> > > Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat at level 1, so there's really
> > > no point in _not_ requiring them to have it.
> >
> > It's because of the Dex 13 prereq of IG, which monks don't have to
> > fulfill.
> > IUS could be a prereq without harm, you're right.
>
> Good point, I guess I missed the Dex 13.
>
> > > Mechanics-wise, this feat is confusing. You can use it to escape a
> > > grapple when you get an AoO against an adjacent square? But you don't
> > > get AoOs against adjacent squares while grappling! So how exactly does
> > > this work?
> >
> > As written, it doesn't!
> > How embarrassing...
> >
> > > Balance-wise, the feat seems OK, though.
> >
> > If the GG feat above is unbalanced with the +4, this could be
> > replaced with the ability to threaten within your unarmed attacks
> > range.
> > Since it's a prereq. for Grapple Counter (BTW I'm not happy with the
> > name)
> > this smart move would heal both feats.
> >
> > What do you think?
>
> I like it! So GG allows you to keep your Dex bonus and to threaten
> adjacent squares. Much better, IMO.
>
> Perhaps Grapple Counter should also allow you to make an Escape Artist
> check instead of the grapple check to escape, though?

I thought about it, but left it out, because flavor-wise escaping with
EA is not grappling and shouldn't work with grapple feats like this.

Rules-wise the escape with EA costs a standard action and not a
single attack action, so the benefit from the feat would even
be greater (more time-saving) for EA then the grapple check
escape.

How about another feat:

-----------------------------------------------------
Fast Escapee [General]
You are able to free yourself at great speed.

Prerequisites:
Escape Artist x ranks, Combat Reflexes,
Skill Focus (Escape Artist), what else?

Benefit:
The time to use the skill Escape Artist for some purposes is reduced
as follows:
Making an Escape Artist check to escape from rope bindings, manacles,
or other restraints (except a grappler) requires 5 rounds of work.
Escaping from a net or an animate rope, command plants, control plants,
or entangle spell is a standard action. Escaping from a grapple or pin
is an attack action.

-----------------------------------------------------

LL

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

alordofch...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I don't have any of the non-core books, and I'm on my way out of the
> office so I don't have time to work it up, but is there a feat that
> enables the grappler to _throw_ the opponent to another square?
>
> End result would be victim (on a successful check of some sort) would
> be prone in an adjacent square (e.g., next to the rogue or raging,
> power attacking barbarian). Depending on the grappler's strength, the
> victim could be thrown several squares away, possibly invoking AoO's
> along the way.

NOBODY TOSSES A DWARF!

Copied from the Netbook of Feats at http://www.datadeco.com/nbofeats/:

------------------------------------------------------
TOSS [General, Fighter]
You may throw an opponent when grappling.

Prerequisite:
Base attack bonus +6

Benefit:
When grappling an opponent and you win an opposed grapple check on
your action, you may throw your opponent instead of the usual options.
For every 5 points you exceed your opponents grapple check by,
you may toss your opponent 5 feet.
You may also add 5 feet for each size category you are larger than the
opponent. If you succeed by less than 5 you still toss your opponent 5
feet. In this case they have still 'fallen' but won't take damage from
the fall.

Special:
The victim is considered to have fallen a distance equal to the
distance they were thrown. This typically results in falling prone and
taking 1d6 points of damage per 10' fallen.
A victim striking a wall or other obstacle will take damage as if they
were thrown the full distance.
You must be strong enough to lift the victim over your head (their
weight cannot exceed your maximum load).

Notes:
Size is already figured into the grappling roll, but I felt that it
didn't give a realistically large boost to the distance thrown so
distance was added without affecting the grapple check.

TOSS Copyright 2002, Jerry M. Chaney II
Balance: 4.10 (Purp 4.25, Pow 4.50, Port 4.25, Comp 3.25, Rule 4.25)
------------------------------------------------------

I think it's a bit over the top realism-wise and maybe balance-wise
too. A -5 or even -10 to the tosser's grapple check and therefore
the tossing distance might be better.

LL

 

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tussock wrote:
> Lorenz.Lang@gmx.de wrote:
> > Sooner or later I'll need some feats for my grappling monk.
> > Preferably with Improved Grapple as a prereq.
>
> Eventually your opponents all have freedom of movement, are
> Gargantuan with double your HD and ludicrous Str, or have very nasty
> touch effects. That and your BAB slowly falls behind the things you're
> grappling.
> You will have to fall back on other tricks. Grappling still works,
> just not enough to spend a lot of precious feats on.
>
> > So far I couldn't find feat chains basing on IG!?
> > I thought about the following feats for a start and
> > humbly ask for comments and criticism, as usual
>
> There's better options than feats anyway.
>
> 1: Get bigger. Enlarge Person is a must, you can also hunt out the
> high level two size version.
> 2: Get stronger. The bigger Str boosts the better, consider picking
> up Rage from somewhere for the extra boost.

Unfortunately our group is me, two ninjas, a rogue and a bard.
Not the most clever choice, but each picked his class without
much thought on the party and the best syergies.
The bard could take Rage as a 2nd level spell, if
she wanted, but there are better spells from her POV, I think.
I don't see an Enlarge Person coming my way soon...

> 3: Get a better BAB, there's PClasses that increase monk damage
> (useful in a grapple) and give full BAB, look into them.

I _always_ play Multiclass and PrC PCs. This time I vowed in advance
not to stray from the true path. Just once I want to play singleclass.


> <snip: new feats>
> > Benefit:
> > You can take the "Escape from Grapple" action by winning an
> > opposed grapple check as a swift action.
> > You can use it either on your turn as normal or when you are
> > allowed and declare to make an attack of opportunity against
> > a foe in an adjacent square.
>
> You can't make attacks of opportunity outside your grapple, because
> you don't threaten an area when grappling. That may have been the
> intention of Greater Grapple, but it didn't specify.

Yeah, it was my fault. I proposed a change already...

> > If you fail to escape from the grapple, you can't make the attack
> > of opportunity, but the attempt counts against your number of
> > attacks of opportunity for the round.
>
> That's a /really/ weird mechanic, I would suggest you just make it
> an immediate action instead, there's absolutely no reason someone not
> invoved in the grapple should make it easier to escape.

No, it's not easier, it's just possible. If I comprehend what I wrote
myself.

You can escape a grapple as a swift action with the feat,
either on your turn or when allowed to act on an opponents turn
(because of an AoO).
If you fail to hit with an AoO, it counts against your number of
AoO for the round too. If you try an AoO and have to escape a grapple
first, it's only fair that it counts as an AoO if you fail the
escape roll, I think.

> --
> tussock
>
> Aspie at works, sorry in advance.

Huh? Fast-healing .sig?

 

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Werebat wrote:
> Lorenz.Lang@gmx.de wrote:
>
> > Sooner or later I'll need some feats for my grappling monk.
> > Preferably with Improved Grapple as a prereq.
> >
> > So far I couldn't find feat chains basing on IG!?
> > I thought about the following feats for a start and
> > humbly ask for comments and criticism, as usual
>
> A PC based entirely on grappling?
>
> I congratulate you on your strong effort to drive your DM bananas.
>
> - Ron ^*^

As my son plays the Ninja with the Spiked Chain what else
could I do?

LL

 

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Lorenz.Lang@gmx.de wrote:

> Sooner or later I'll need some feats for my grappling monk.
> Preferably with Improved Grapple as a prereq.
>
> So far I couldn't find feat chains basing on IG!?
> I thought about the following feats for a start and
> humbly ask for comments and criticism, as usual

A PC based entirely on grappling?

I congratulate you on your strong effort to drive your DM bananas.

- Ron ^*^

 

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Lorenz.Lang@gmx.de wrote:
> Werebat wrote:
>
>>Lorenz.Lang@gmx.de wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Sooner or later I'll need some feats for my grappling monk.
>>>Preferably with Improved Grapple as a prereq.
>>>
>>>So far I couldn't find feat chains basing on IG!?
>>>I thought about the following feats for a start and
>>>humbly ask for comments and criticism, as usual
>>
>>A PC based entirely on grappling?
>>
>>I congratulate you on your strong effort to drive your DM bananas.
>>
>> - Ron ^*^
>
>
> As my son plays the Ninja with the Spiked Chain what else
> could I do?

Fight the zombie?

- Ron ^*^

 

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Lorenz.Lang@gmx.de wrote:
> Sooner or later I'll need some feats for my grappling monk.
> Preferably with Improved Grapple as a prereq.

Eventually your opponents all have freedom of movement, are
Gargantuan with double your HD and ludicrous Str, or have very nasty
touch effects. That and your BAB slowly falls behind the things you're
grappling.
You will have to fall back on other tricks. Grappling still works,
just not enough to spend a lot of precious feats on.

> So far I couldn't find feat chains basing on IG!?
> I thought about the following feats for a start and
> humbly ask for comments and criticism, as usual

There's better options than feats anyway.

1: Get bigger. Enlarge Person is a must, you can also hunt out the
high level two size version.
2: Get stronger. The bigger Str boosts the better, consider picking
up Rage from somewhere for the extra boost.
3: Get a better BAB, there's PClasses that increase monk damage
(useful in a grapple) and give full BAB, look into them.




<snip: new feats>
> Benefit:
> You can take the "Escape from Grapple" action by winning an
> opposed grapple check as a swift action.
> You can use it either on your turn as normal or when you are
> allowed and declare to make an attack of opportunity against
> a foe in an adjacent square.

You can't make attacks of opportunity outside your grapple, because
you don't threaten an area when grappling. That may have been the
intention of Greater Grapple, but it didn't specify.

> If you fail to escape from the grapple, you can't make the attack
> of opportunity, but the attempt counts against your number of
> attacks of opportunity for the round.

That's a /really/ weird mechanic, I would suggest you just make it
an immediate action instead, there's absolutely no reason someone not
invoved in the grapple should make it easier to escape.

--
tussock

Aspie at works, sorry in advance.

 

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<Lorenz.Lang@gmx.de> wrote:
>Sooner or later I'll need some feats for my grappling monk.
>Preferably with Improved Grapple as a prereq.
>
>So far I couldn't find feat chains basing on IG!?

There's an entire PrC in CW, though: Reaping Mauler

Donald

 

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Kevin Lowe wrote:
> In article <1126531052.560950.163080@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> Lorenz.Lang@gmx.de wrote:
>
>
> > Special:
> > The victim is considered to have fallen a distance equal to the
> > distance they were thrown. This typically results in falling prone and
> > taking 1d6 points of damage per 10' fallen.
>
> This isn't how it works in real life, if it matters. Falling hurts
> because you decelerate incredibly rapidly when you hit the ground.
> Being thrown horizontally with equal speed is dangerous, particularly if
> you hit an obstacle (as your rules cover next), but usually you will
> decelerate over a much greater distance and suffer correspondingly less
> damage.
>
> > A victim striking a wall or other obstacle will take damage as if they
> > were thrown the full distance.
>
> Since this is DnD and not high school physics, this sounds about right.
>
> I worry that the best use of this feat, however, is to stand next to a
> wall and throw people into it over and over again.

Standing next to a precipice and throwing people down is better.

> Again I'm not sure if this is a concern for you, but in real life the
> way you hurt somebody with a throw is to slam them hard onto their head
> right next to you, rather than hurl them a country mile through the air.
> If you can do that, you could have just spiked them into the ground even
> harder. That way you control their angle of impact much better and you
> are right there to beat up on them some more if you feel the need to.

That's another oddity of the grapple rules, there's no action in a
grapple
allowing you to force the opponent into a prone position.
Attack at -4 to trip? More difficult in a grapple than outside??
Or do I miss something?

> If your goal is cinematic, of course, hurling people twenty feet into a
> stack of cardboard boxes is much more dramatic.
>

Right, it's not _my_ feat anyway and I wouldn't allow it without
change.
I copied TOSS into the thread, because someone up-thread
asked if such a feat exists. It's from the Netbook of Feats.

My proposed feats are Greater Grapple and Grapple Counter.
What do you think of them?

LL

 

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In article <1126531052.560950.163080@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
Lorenz.Lang@gmx.de wrote:


> Special:
> The victim is considered to have fallen a distance equal to the
> distance they were thrown. This typically results in falling prone and
> taking 1d6 points of damage per 10' fallen.

This isn't how it works in real life, if it matters. Falling hurts
because you decelerate incredibly rapidly when you hit the ground.
Being thrown horizontally with equal speed is dangerous, particularly if
you hit an obstacle (as your rules cover next), but usually you will
decelerate over a much greater distance and suffer correspondingly less
damage.

> A victim striking a wall or other obstacle will take damage as if they
> were thrown the full distance.

Since this is DnD and not high school physics, this sounds about right.

I worry that the best use of this feat, however, is to stand next to a
wall and throw people into it over and over again.

Again I'm not sure if this is a concern for you, but in real life the
way you hurt somebody with a throw is to slam them hard onto their head
right next to you, rather than hurl them a country mile through the air.
If you can do that, you could have just spiked them into the ground even
harder. That way you control their angle of impact much better and you
are right there to beat up on them some more if you feel the need to.

If your goal is cinematic, of course, hurling people twenty feet into a
stack of cardboard boxes is much more dramatic.

--
Kevin Lowe,
Tasmania.

 

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tussock wrote:
> Lorenz.Lang@gmx.de wrote:
> > Kevin Lowe wrote:
> >>In article <1126531052.560950.163080@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> >> Lorenz.Lang@gmx.de wrote:
>
> >>Again I'm not sure if this is a concern for you, but in real life the
> >>way you hurt somebody with a throw is to slam them hard onto their head
> >>right next to you, rather than hurl them a country mile through the air.
> >>If you can do that, you could have just spiked them into the ground even
> >>harder. That way you control their angle of impact much better and you
> >>are right there to beat up on them some more if you feel the need to.
> >
> > That's another oddity of the grapple rules, there's no action in a
> > grapple allowing you to force the opponent into a prone position.
> > Attack at -4 to trip? More difficult in a grapple than outside??
> > Or do I miss something?
>
> Trip. There's nothing in the rules that prevent you using trips in
> place of an attack, as normal, just because you're in a grapple.
>
> It works out a bit silly, the touch part will be at -4 because
> you're attacking in a grapple, but you're already touching. I have a
> messy set of house rules for all that, somewhere.

Shot from the hip:

Allow Trip as a grapple action, that is by winning an opposed grapple
check. A prone grappler's grapple checks don't suffer a penalty for
being prone, but a standing grappler gets a +4 bonus on grappling
checks vs. a prone grappler.

Exeption:
The prone grappler recieves +8 on his roll when he wants to resist
being moved. His grapple check to move another grappler suffers
a -8 penalty.

Standing up in a grapple is not possible as usual (move action with
AoO). It's a standard action that requires an opposed grapple check and

doesn't provoke an AoO from other grapplers. Opponents from outside
the grapple who threaten the grappler may make AoO against him.

> --
> tussock
>
> Ecnavda ni yrros, krow ta Eipsa.

Gis. ynnuf!

LL

 

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Lorenz.Lang@gmx.de wrote:
> Kevin Lowe wrote:
>>In article <1126531052.560950.163080@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
>> Lorenz.Lang@gmx.de wrote:

>>Again I'm not sure if this is a concern for you, but in real life the
>>way you hurt somebody with a throw is to slam them hard onto their head
>>right next to you, rather than hurl them a country mile through the air.
>>If you can do that, you could have just spiked them into the ground even
>>harder. That way you control their angle of impact much better and you
>>are right there to beat up on them some more if you feel the need to.
>
> That's another oddity of the grapple rules, there's no action in a
> grapple allowing you to force the opponent into a prone position.
> Attack at -4 to trip? More difficult in a grapple than outside??
> Or do I miss something?

Trip. There's nothing in the rules that prevent you using trips in
place of an attack, as normal, just because you're in a grapple.

It works out a bit silly, the touch part will be at -4 because
you're attacking in a grapple, but you're already touching. I have a
messy set of house rules for all that, somewhere.

--
tussock

Ecnavda ni yrros, krow ta Eipsa.

 

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"Donald Tsang" <tsang@soda.csua.berkeley.edu> wrote in message
news:dg4tci$1g4h$1@agate.berkeley.edu...
> <Lorenz.Lang@gmx.de> wrote:
> >Sooner or later I'll need some feats for my grappling monk.
> >Preferably with Improved Grapple as a prereq.
> >
> >So far I couldn't find feat chains basing on IG!?
>
> There's an entire PrC in CW, though: Reaping Mauler
>
It's a bit silly though.

It assumes that a character focused on grappling doesn't
have Improved Grapple, and grants it as a bonus feat.

Geoff.

 

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Geoff Watson wrote:
> "Donald Tsang" <tsang@soda.csua.berkeley.edu> wrote in message
> news:dg4tci$1g4h$1@agate.berkeley.edu...
>
>><Lorenz.Lang@gmx.de> wrote:
>>
>>>Sooner or later I'll need some feats for my grappling monk.
>>>Preferably with Improved Grapple as a prereq.
>>>
>>>So far I couldn't find feat chains basing on IG!?
>>
>>There's an entire PrC in CW, though: Reaping Mauler
>
> It's a bit silly though.
>
> It assumes that a character focused on grappling doesn't
> have Improved Grapple, and grants it as a bonus feat.

Which is really just giving you back the slot you picked Improved
Grapple with, eg for a Monk that'd get you Stunning Fist as the other
option from L2.

At least, that's how sensible DMs handle it. 8]

--
tussock

Aspie at work, sorry in advance.