I just got hammered by an Una deck..you need to see this!

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

I'll just say he took something like 53 actions in ONE turn and went
through his ENTIRE 90 card deck in the same turn. Thank God he got
PTO'ed but not before sending both of my vampires to torpor and
following it up with a bleed of 13....in that SAME single turn. 53
freak drives!
I've been playing this game since it came out and that was the
SICKEST, WRONGEST thing I've ever seen! He swept the table the game he
previously played the deck. I'm not sure but the word "broken" came to
mind when I was getting raped by Una. But hey, thats just me. We'll see
what it continues to do.

Open for your opinions!

Here it is:
Creator-Dennis Lien from L.A.

Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 36, Max: 36, Avg: 9)
-------------------------------------------
12 Una dem ANI FOR PRE PRO 9 Gangrel
Antitribu

Library: (90 cards)
-------------------
Action (12 cards)
1 Big Game
1 Bum`s Rush
1 Harass
1 Ambush
1 Blessing of Chaos
1 Ablative Skin
1 Shadow of the Beast
1 Fire Dance
1 Eternal Vigilance
1 Clan Impersonation
1 Heart of the City
1 Tier of Souls

Action Modifier (56 cards)
****56 Freak Drive*****

Political Action (1 cards)
1 Sabbat Inquisitor

Retainer (10 cards)
1 Ghoul Retainer
1 Murder of Crows
1 Owl Companion
1 Jackie Therman
1 Raptor
1 Raven Spy
1 Mr. Winthrop
1 Robert Carter
1 Tasha Morgan
1 J. S. Simmons, Esq.

Equipment (11 cards)
1 Hawg
1 Leather Jacket
1 Ivory Bow
1 Sire`s Index Finger
1 Flak Jacket
1 IR Goggles
1 Erebus Mask
1 Seal of Veddartha
1 Eye of Hazimel
1 Laptop Computer
1 Inveraray, Scotland


***JediMike***

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Clever! But each Freak Drive costs one blood, so how does Una play more
than 9 in one turn?

I also notice there's no combat at all, and all of these actions are at
+1 stealth. Block just a few of them, and where does that leave Una?

The word "broken" doesn't come to mind. I'm not even certain how this
deck is meant to work.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

bjornstein@yahoo.com wrote:
> Clever! But each Freak Drive costs one blood, so how does Una play more
> than 9 in one turn?

Read Una's special.

> I also notice there's no combat at all, and all of these actions are at
> +1 stealth. Block just a few of them, and where does that leave Una?
>
> The word "broken" doesn't come to mind. I'm not even certain how this
> deck is meant to work.

If there is not a blocker in place when Una starts her turn, she will
go through her *entire deck* that turn. Of course, one well-placed
Direct Intervention might delay her as well.

She'll bleed for a helluva lot...

Heart of the City: +2
Tier of Souls (maybe): +1
Sabbat Inquisitor (maybe): +1
Robert Carter: +2
Tasha Morgan: +1
J.S. Simmons, Esq.: +1
Seal of Veddartha: +1
Eye of Hazimel: +1
Laptop Computer: +1

So that's guaranteed bleeds of 10, maybe 12 *every action*. And if she
tools up Inverary, even more!

Archon Investigation would ruin her day, but she'd probably clean the
table by then.

As good as this is, I bet it could be improved ever so slightly.

1x Giant's Blood (for the turn after Una goes nuclear)
1x Writ of Acceptance (cheaper anti-PTO tech than Clan Imp)
1x Aaron's Feeding Razor (she's hunting anyway to cycle Freaks, right?)
1x Starshell Grenade Launcher (just in case the Bow gets contested)

That ought to do it.

Jeff

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Doh! I do know Una's special, and I still had to ask. I see it now.

But still. If there is not a blocker in place when she starts shopping,
well, why isn't there? And when she bleeds (as CthuluKitty says), what
if your prey bounces? Or plays Archon Investigation? Or even blocks?
Sure would you not block a bleed for 10+, even if she has the Ivory
Bow? Or if your prey has Protected Resources?

Not that it isn't a very nice and clever trick, and it would probably
come as a nasty surprise, but "broken"? I can think of dozens of ways
that it can fail.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

I had two blockers and she got around them both and sent them to
torpor. You can only block so many thing even if your dedicated
intercept.

***JediMike***

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Janne Hägglund wrote:
> jeffkuta@pacbell.net writes:
>
> > Which blocker? The one she rushed into the ground with one of her two
> > unrestricted enter combat actions? Oh, *that* blocker.
>
> Two? Are you counting Eternal Vigilance, or am I missing something?
> I only found Eye of Hazimel and a bunch of non-permanent rush cards.

I was actually counting Bum's Rush and Big Game, both of which ought to
be in your hand along with Harass and Ambush after Una goes off. Didn't
even think about the Eye's perma-rush.

> > surviving three or more rounds of Ivory Bow goodness in combat with all
> > those maneuvers. Hell, she ought to keep that Clan Impersonation and go
> > Gangrel then get a Dog Pack just to deal with S:CE (and PTO).
>
> Going Independent will not help her against PTO. A Writ of Acceptance
> would, but that would destroy her ultra-useful Eternal Vigilance. And she
> can get around S:CE simply by using Freak Drives...

Oh right. Gangrel gone Indie. I suppose you really ought to just risk
it and stay Sabbat for the EV. DI is probably sufficient for anti-vote
tech. Interestingly, if she is getting the Erebus Mask anyway (ack, I
was confusing this with Changeling Skin Mask)....

Well now, since she's gone Harbingers and has +1 stealth, I can see now
how bounce might be fairly effective.

I was thinking she could get a Changeling Skin Mask and you could pack
1x Confusion of the Eye as well just in case of PTO accidents (if you
really expected to face two PTOs in a single game).

> How about adding one Direct Intervention, just for PTO?

Or several DIs.

> > Personally I think that Una ought to have 3 weenie support
> > vampires/chump blockers in the crypt. The odds of seeing one of them
> > are pretty darn good, and you're guaranteed of seeing Una herself.
>
> Agreed. Or more than three. That Pentex Subversion sure can ruin your
> whole game...

Maybe 1x DI and 1x Sudden Reversal? You'd still have several Rushes
available, a couple Freaks and room for Masters.

If you didn't want to go the Harbingers/Stealth route, you could always
toss in a Waste Management Operation to cycle a Freak Drive. Rush via
Eye, Torpor, Freak, Bleed for 10+ will eventually wear down just about
anyone.

Jeff

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

***JediMike*** wrote:
> Action Modifier (56 cards)
> ****56 Freak Drive*****

Just because it's appropriate (even though I don't believe it)...

WE NEED CARD LIMITS!!!!

Jeff

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"***JediMike***" <Jedimike@rebelscum.net> writes:

> I've been playing this game since it came out and that was the
> SICKEST, WRONGEST thing I've ever seen! He swept the table the game he
> previously played the deck. I'm not sure but the word "broken" came to
> mind when I was getting raped by Una. But hey, thats just me. We'll see
> what it continues to do.
>
> Open for your opinions!


*Falls down on his knees, in worship of absolute, merciless beauty.*


--
hg@ "If you can't offend part of your audience,
iki.fi there is no point in being an artist at all." -Hakim Bey

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

The deck isn't Broken, but i just wish to make the point that even if
una is blocked 7 times in a turn (i just don't think that the odds of
drawing more Wakes or Forced Awakenings in a turn is even worthy
considering) but if she is torporized and manage to have 2 blood (or
other way) to exit torpor she can exit torpor and hunt 9 times and get
filled again.
The point is that it is'nt important that her actions are at 0 stealth,
if someone block her once, ok, that action wasn't succesfull, untap,
action, block her twice, ok, untap, if she got beated she hunts, hunts
hunts to get some blood, and do another action, i don't think that
after that there's anyone that CAN block her, all are tapped or
otherwise unable to block, even at 0 stealth.
And i want to know how does she sweep the table killing it's prey and
grand prey in one turn if she can only bleed once a turn.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

***JediMike*** wrote:

> I've been playing this game since it came out and that was the
> SICKEST, WRONGEST thing I've ever seen! He swept the table the game he
> previously played the deck. I'm not sure but the word "broken" came to
> mind when I was getting raped by Una. But hey, thats just me. We'll see
> what it continues to do.

Yeah, I'm not quite sure if this is, like, comedy or not.

I mean, yeah, she can take 53 actions in one turn. She could potentially
bleed for a lot, but at zero stealth. She can't survive combat even
remotely--there is, like, a Murder of Crows, an Ivory Bow, a Leather Jacket,
and an Ablative Skin? You just let her take the 53 actions, when she comes
to bleed for 12 you block her with +0 intercept, and either stand around and
watch her do run out of cards as she can't really hurt you otherwise.

The real flaw is the lack of combat defense (well, and stealth)--she gets in
a fight with someone even remotely combaty, and she will end up in torpor
right quickly, and never get out, as she doesn't have any freinds to rescue
her.

Heck--her offensive abilitiy is stopped dead in its tracks by a small
handfull of Majesties. Or dodges. Or fortitude. Or, well, I'm sure you get
the point.


Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

jeffkuta@pacbell.net writes:

> Which blocker? The one she rushed into the ground with one of her two
> unrestricted enter combat actions? Oh, *that* blocker.

Two? Are you counting Eternal Vigilance, or am I missing something?
I only found Eye of Hazimel and a bunch of non-permanent rush cards.


> surviving three or more rounds of Ivory Bow goodness in combat with all
> those maneuvers. Hell, she ought to keep that Clan Impersonation and go
> Gangrel then get a Dog Pack just to deal with S:CE (and PTO).

Going Independent will not help her against PTO. A Writ of Acceptance
would, but that would destroy her ultra-useful Eternal Vigilance. And she
can get around S:CE simply by using Freak Drives...

How about adding one Direct Intervention, just for PTO?


> Personally I think that Una ought to have 3 weenie support
> vampires/chump blockers in the crypt. The odds of seeing one of them
> are pretty darn good, and you're guaranteed of seeing Una herself.

Agreed. Or more than three. That Pentex Subversion sure can ruin your
whole game...


--
hg@ "If you can't offend part of your audience,
iki.fi there is no point in being an artist at all." -Hakim Bey

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

***JediMike*** a écrit :
> I'll just say he took something like 53 actions in ONE turn and went
> through his ENTIRE 90 card deck in the same turn. Thank God he got
> PTO'ed but not before sending both of my vampires to torpor and
> following it up with a bleed of 13....in that SAME single turn. 53
> freak drives!

I'm not surprised it's a Dennis Deck : I remember his "Great beast tools
up with the eye of hazimel and wreaks havoc" stuff

A friend in paris tried the same thing a long time ago, and was fairly
succesful. He also played 7 raptors to prevent other players to harm him
in combat. He recruted them via Muricia's call and Jack of both sides to
avoid the NRA, so he could have 3 raptors in a single turn. He also
added Sargon fragment to bring back all the useful cards if needed.

The problem is the same with all mono vampire decks: you are highly
vulnerable to stuff like seduction, unpreventable damage (you have not
other vamp to protect or rescue the main star), pentex...

I'm really curious to know what other cards were at that table when
Dennis did the sweep

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

***JediMike*** wrote:
| I'll just say he took something like 53 actions in ONE turn and went
| through his ENTIRE 90 card deck in the same turn. Thank God he got
| PTO'ed but not before sending both of my vampires to torpor and
| following it up with a bleed of 13....in that SAME single turn. 53
| freak drives!

Hee! Funny stuff.

| I've been playing this game since it came out and that was the
| SICKEST, WRONGEST thing I've ever seen! He swept the table the game he
| previously played the deck. I'm not sure but the word "broken" came to
| mind when I was getting raped by Una. But hey, thats just me. We'll see
| what it continues to do.

Well, the weaknesses here are that:

- -- All the actions are at 1 stealth, unless you hit the Clan
Impersonation before the Erebus Mask. This only matters because it
makes it very easy to block the key cards.
- -- The only ousting action the deck can take is "I bleed for (a
gazillion)", and it can only do that once per turn, and it can do that
at no more than 1 stealth. It can Rush things once it gets the Ivory
Bow, but the Bow is far from trump combat. It has a lot of maneuvers
and presses, but ... see below. Despite the card explosion on turn 1,
it is actually a fairly slow mover, so it runs a big risk of being
ousted cross-table in some fashion.
- -- There are only a few "prevent"-like cards: Ablative Skin, Fire
Dance, Flak Jacket, Leather Jacket. Leather Jacket is one-shot-only.
All those presses it has become less useful since the +1 strength from
the Eye isn't as good now.
- -- If you don't have any of the prevent cards early on, you have a
significant problem if anyone can block and do damage to you.
Specifically, block-and-agg people are the deck's primary fear; even
though it can Freak Drive and rescue itself, there's always the chance
there are two blockers available, and then it's Munch City. Also, the
self-rescue will be 2 blood that it can't necessarily afford at that
point in time.
- -- Saving your blocks for key actions can cripple the deck. Blocking
the Ivory Bow, for example, removes the vast majority of Una's combat
threat; I would have definitely included the Sargon Fragment here, to
give myself an out in case this happens. I would have used two Day
Operations as well, JUST in case -- although going to torpor is scary
for this deck.
- -- Any deck that can put Una in torpor empty, of course, will stop this
deck cold (Signpost/Blur, Magnum/Blur).

There are a lot of hidden strengths, too, though.

- -- The cardless "hunt" action is not covered under NRA anymore; I assume
this is how the deck can afford all the cards that cost blood. This is
also the deck's primary defense against "hit-you-for-lots" combat, and
why it doesn't need THAT much prevention; it can always cycle Freak
Drives and hunt itself back up for a few blood. Someone who goes after
Una while she's on 8 blood and punches her down to 3 is making a big
mistake.
- -- While some of the toys cost pool, Una's still only a 9-cap. Plenty
of spending room, especially when you can Rush backwards if things look
like big bleeders.
- -- Blocking individual actions without a clear purpose is largely
meaningless, as Una simply plows through the toys and moves on. She has
no need for ALL the bleed retainers, for example -- so being too clever
and trying to block the +bleeders is simply wasting intercept.
- -- The only chance of hand jam is being caught without a Freak Drive,
and the best chance of this is at the start of the game, when the most
non-Freak Drive cards are in the deck. If no blockers can torporize or
somehow incapacitate Una, he's almost certain to get his entire deck out
in a single turn. Actual math works out to less than .01% chance of no
Freak Drives in his first 10 cards (3 discard phases before Una can
act)... and yes, that is point oh-one percent, not 1%.

Seriously? I think this is a damned funny novelty deck,... but I don't
see it as broken. I think its slow forward motion is its biggest
weakness, and any deck that has some cross-table capacity is going to be
able to handle this effectively... although it will certainly disrupt
things while it's around. Like all the turbo decks, though, hardly a
guaranteed win... more of an all-or-nothing shot.

| Action Modifier (56 cards)
| ****56 Freak Drive*****

Uh-oh. David Tatu has some competition!

- --
Derek

insert clever quotation here

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (MingW32)

iD8DBQFCvs9AtQZlu3o7QpERAkvlAKDeMwik7aHEo3+i4w5zre3XIUrzEwCgk3X2
QrPXFNY3a7TlPHwjqDWuhh4=
=hy8r
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

I would laugh until I passed out if Una was the unfortunate victim of a
"The Name Forgotten".

And who in the hell owns 53 Freak Drives? Aren't there laws against
that sort of thing?

TTFn

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Peter D Bakija wrote:
> ***JediMike*** wrote:

> I mean, yeah, she can take 53 actions in one turn. She could potentially
> bleed for a lot, but at zero stealth.

I'm sure you've the Erebus Mask posts by now.

> The real flaw is the lack of combat defense (well, and stealth)--she gets in
> a fight with someone even remotely combaty, and she will end up in torpor
> right quickly, and never get out, as she doesn't have any freinds to rescue
> her.

She's doing hands and the ghoul retainer is using the Ivory Bow.

> Heck--her offensive abilitiy is stopped dead in its tracks by a small
> handfull of Majesties.

Blessing of Chaos.

> Or dodges. Or fortitude. Or, well, I'm sure you get
> the point.

As was said elsewhere, this is certainly an "all or nothing"
proposition. If you've got one of the answers to the deck then it
dies...otherwise it doesn't.

-Robert

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

I guess my comments went rather unappreciated by the majority of
posters in this thread. I guess what I'm getting at is that in order
to curtail decks like this, people need to adopt a different philosophy
of the game. Up here in Western Mass, EVERYONE packs cards for
cross-table manipulation and people are simply prepared to team up
against tricky decks that threaten to sweep. Yeah, Una's combat
package is pretty mean IF she gets all her stuff, but who's to say you
can't block and torporize her on the first action? Lots of decks
around here could easily do that. Miller Delmardigan comes to mind as
an apt candidate for the job. Or Omaya. Hell, Blythe Candeleria could
do it and she's a freakin' 3 capacity vapire. Sure, if everyone at the
table is playing some trick deck or S&B with the intent of a quick
sweep then Una wins because she does it faster. That doesn't mean the
deck is broken. It just means the table isn't prepared for it.

Cthulukitty

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

CthuluKitty wrote:
> I guess my comments went rather unappreciated by the majority of
> posters in this thread.

I don't think that's true at all.

Mainly, if you're not playing intercept-combat, a relatively uncommon
archetype, *and* don't have the hand to torpor her immediately, Una has
a very significant chance of going off the first turn she acts. It's
all about playing the metagame, and I think this deck stands a very
good chance to do some serious damage in just about *any* environment.

Sure, it's a one-trick pony, but it is one helluva trick.

Jeff

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Derek Ray <lorimer@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I'd actually be interested in seeing a non-hyperbolic version of this
> deck that is more robust on defense and ousting -- perhaps one that
> doesn't erase its library on turn 3, but can have more consistent
> forward momentum in a variety of environments.

For what it's worth, here's an Una deck I've been working on:

Deck Name: Una Gets Freaky v2.0
Created By: Kevin J. Mergen
Description: Obvious Una Fortitude abuse.

Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 24, Max: 36, Avg: 7.83)
----------------------------------------------
6 Una dem ANI FOR PRE PRO 9 !Gangrel
4 Antonino ani FOR pre pro 6 Gangrel
2 Brunhilde ANI FOR pre PRO 8 Gangrel

Library: (90 cards)
-------------------
Master (14 cards)
3 Blood Doll
1 Dia de los Muertos
3 Direct Intervention
1 Giant`s Blood
1 Golconda: Inner Peace
1 Hungry Coyote, The
1 Secure Haven
3 Sudden Reversal

Action (22 cards)
2 Army of Rats
2 Charming Lobby
4 Enchant Kindred
1 Entrancement
1 Eternal Vigilance
4 Kindred Spirits
3 Legal Manipulations
2 Mind Numb
3 Social Charm

Action Modifier (30 cards)
5 Awe
5 Beast Meld
16 Freak Drive
4 Voter Captivation

Political Action (9 cards)
4 Conservative Agitation
5 Kine Resources Contested

Combat (15 cards)
2 Alpha Glint
4 Earth Meld
4 Form of Mist
5 Skin of Steel


Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy, and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment... Complacency... Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Man, my HoS Brinkmanship deck will own this thing, as its pred...

~SV

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

In message <BEE47BA8.20462%pdb6@lightlink.com>, Peter D Bakija
<pdb6@lightlink.com> writes:
>I suspect that in the long run, the deck will have a reasonably good chance
>of getting 1 very quick and unexpected VP, after which, it'll likely get
>bogged down and/or killed. Once and a while, it might get everything to lock
>into place and get a table win. But that describes a lot of decks that
>already exist.

In a tournament environment, I'd expect to see it do somewhat like the
Turbo-Arika[0] deck. That is, it can do well (extremely well,
potentially), but once players know what it's doing, they'll try to get
you off the table RIGHT NOW if they can't get something out of it (a
deal, bouncing, or whatever).

Unlike the Turbo-Arika deck, it will absolutely need multiple turns to
try to sweep a table. (The Turbo decks sometimes stall based on the
distribution of cards, of course, but could in theory do it all in one
turn.)

The deck interests me a great, great deal, however.


[0] Any Turbo deck could do, if it can repeat bleed by burning itself
and replacing itself with another vampire, and so on.

--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Screaming Vermillian schrieb:
> Man, my HoS Brinkmanship deck will own this thing, as its pred...
>
> ~SV

At least one deck you will oust with that Slaughterhouserubbish... ;o)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

CthuluKitty wrote:

> I don't really feel that this is the case.

Ok.

> In the games I play it is
> very common to see people taking cross table actions to neutralize what
> they see as the major threat to the table.

Yeah, see, that is pretty much circumventing or ignoring the predator/prey
dynamic. And usually it is a dumb idea as it just makes someone else win. If
you focus on ousting your prey, then you get VPs. If you focus on ousting
someone else's prey, someone else gets VPs.

> This isn't circumventing the prey/predator dynamics; it's just understanding
>them on a more nuanced, long-term basis.

Umm, ok. Me PTOing someone crosstable is likely just making that guy cross
the table get ousted by someone who isn't me. At which point I have to PTO
someone else cross table, who then also gets ousted by someone who isn't me.
You are much better off just killing your prey. And the game as a whole is
much better off if you just kill your prey.

> In a 5 player game, which is the norm, no
> player is more than 1 oust away from being either your prey or
> predator, depending on where they sit.

Correct.

>So everyone at the table has
> the potential to become your enemy, and it makes sense to weaken those
> potential enemies while you still can, even if it means diverting
> attention from your immediate goals.

Only if you like making other people win the game. Weakening your non
immediate opponents usually makes your immediate opponents stronger. When
your immediate opponents are stronger, you are weaker. And your now stronger
opponents who are less worried about weaker you go on to kill your weaker
non immediate opponent, and become even stronger.

See, if there is a deck that the table that requires the whole table to gang
up on it to keep it from sweeping with impunity, then there is something
wrong with the game that needs fixing. In other circumstances, the need to
mess with folks cross table is generally few and far between.

> Frequently, you can bargain with
> your prey and/or predator to make this happen. For example: "Don't
> bleed for a turn and I'll hit the threat"; or "Let me take this next
> action unblocked and then I'll hit the threat".

At which point the game bogs down in people wheeling and dealing to try to
get people to give them an incentive to take an action that has significant
(reasonably so) built in disincentive to attempt. Which is a bad idea.

Yeah. Sometimes a cross table shenanagin seems like a good idea. Most of
those times it actually isn't. Just kill your prey.


Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"***JediMike***" <Jedimike@rebelscum.net> schreef in bericht
news:1119760053.587312.202990@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...

>
> Action Modifier (56 cards)
> ****56 Freak Drive*****
>
Just when I gave up on trying to use victim of habit.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Just a note to add here, since Jeroen is defending my position on this
fairly adequately: my play group does not play with time limits. The
nearest place to play in tournaments is over 2 hours drive away, and
I've only gone once with one other player. Our experience with time
limits there only confirmed our distaste for them, as we saw game after
game time out because of what looked like intentionally slow, or at
least unexcusably slow play. The game is drastically different without
the time limit, and not just shorter. When there's no pressure to get
multiple ousts ASAP it is much more reasonable to spend time improving
your own position via permanents and bloating, and weakening the
position of other players who appear to present a threat. It's also
worth noting that at that one tournament I played, the closest I came
to a GW was achieved by back-ousting my CEL guns predator with a
Kindred Spirits. Not exactly going xtable, but still contrary to the
pred/prey dynamics as many here are defining them, and perfectly
defensable in that situation. I understand that 90% of the time it's
better to focus on ousting your own prey, but that other 10% is still a
relevant and important part of play. If it weren't, cards like Eagle's
Sight wouldn't exist, and Anneke would not nearly as popular as she is,
just to name a few examples.

Cthulukitty

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Peter D Bakija" <pdb6@lightlink.com> schreef in bericht
news:BEE57091.20493%pdb6@lightlink.com...
> CthuluKitty wrote:
>
>> I don't really feel that this is the case.
>
> Ok.
>
>> In the games I play it is
>> very common to see people taking cross table actions to neutralize what
>> they see as the major threat to the table.
>
> Yeah, see, that is pretty much circumventing or ignoring the predator/prey
> dynamic. And usually it is a dumb idea as it just makes someone else win.
> If
> you focus on ousting your prey, then you get VPs. If you focus on ousting
> someone else's prey, someone else gets VPs.

where did you make the jump from "weakening someone cross table who became
too strong and will in all likelyhood be you next predator" to "oust
someone/PTO someone cross table"? IMO, there's a difference. a HUGE
difference. In the first, you slow him down from getting a vp, not give
someone else a VP. Addionally, it gives you more time to try to get your
prey.

>
> Yeah. Sometimes a cross table shenanagin seems like a good idea. Most of
> those times it actually isn't. Just kill your prey.
>
like you said indeed, most of the time. But sometimes it's just for the
best.