Request for comments - Tremere Trophy Hunters

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Deck Name: Tremere Trophy Hunters
Created By: The Lasombra
Description: Muaziz and Rebecca join the Anarch movement in order to
go Trophy hunting. +1 stealth on all actions will go a long way to
helping this deck flow.

Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 28, Max: 32, Avg: 7.50)
----------------------------------------------
4 Muaziz aus dom for THA 7, Tremere:2
4 Rebekka AUS pot PRE THA 8, Tremere:2
2 Anastasz di Zagreb ani AUS cel dom THA 8, Tremere:3, Justicar
2 Carna AUS DOM THA 7, Tremere:3, Primogen

Library: (90 cards)
-------------------
Master (23 cards)
1 Academic Hunting Ground
4 Blood Doll
1 Chantry
4 Fortitude
3 Parthenon, The
2 Rotschreck
2 Trophy: Discipline
4 Trophy: Domain
2 Trophy: Hunting Ground

Action (21 cards)
5 Bum`s Rush
1 Fee Stake: Corte
1 Fee Stake: Los Angeles
1 Fee Stake: New York
1 Fee Stake: Perth
6 Go Anarch
6 Red List

Action Modifier (10 cards)
10 Freak Drive

Reaction (14 cards)
8 Telepathic Misdirection
6 Wake with Evening`s Freshness

Combat (22 cards)
6 Amaranth
8 Burst of Sunlight
8 Skin of Night

This deck was last saved at 12:28:18 AM on 7/1/2005


Carpe noctem.

Lasombra

http://www.TheLasombra.com

Your best online source for information about V:TES.
Now also featuring individual card sales and sales
of booster and starter box displays.
118 answers Last reply
More about request comments tremere trophy hunters
  1. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    I don`t understand the need to go anarch, If it`s for the votes so
    rebeka can also play amaranth...well, perhaps it`s because I`m kind of
    new to the game, but I think it`s a waste of cards, and requires a lot
    of setup. Perhaps you could mix Tre and !Tre and add a couple of
    Ladislas Toth, The Torch to your deck, AUS DOM THA for and 2 votes for
    7 pool is really good for your deck IMO.

    And if you decide to stick with the anarchs, perhaps playing a couple
    of anarch revolts would be good...if you prey vampires go anarch you
    either block ´em with your trophied Muazis or Rebekka, or just bum
    rush them and eat them.
  2. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    The Lasombra wrote:
    > Deck Name: Tremere Trophy Hunters
    > Created By: The Lasombra
    > Description: Muaziz and Rebecca join the Anarch movement in order to
    > go Trophy hunting. +1 stealth on all actions will go a long way to
    > helping this deck flow.
    >
    > Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 28, Max: 32, Avg: 7.50)
    > ----------------------------------------------
    > 4 Muaziz aus dom for THA 7, Tremere:2
    > 4 Rebekka AUS pot PRE THA 8, Tremere:2
    > 2 Anastasz di Zagreb ani AUS cel dom THA 8, Tremere:3, Justicar
    > 2 Carna AUS DOM THA 7, Tremere:3, Primogen
    >
    > Library: (90 cards)
    > -------------------
    > Master (23 cards)
    > 1 Academic Hunting Ground
    > 4 Blood Doll
    > 1 Chantry
    > 4 Fortitude
    > 3 Parthenon, The
    > 2 Rotschreck
    > 2 Trophy: Discipline
    > 4 Trophy: Domain
    > 2 Trophy: Hunting Ground
    >
    > Action (21 cards)
    > 5 Bum`s Rush
    > 1 Fee Stake: Corte
    > 1 Fee Stake: Los Angeles
    > 1 Fee Stake: New York
    > 1 Fee Stake: Perth
    > 6 Go Anarch
    > 6 Red List
    >
    > Action Modifier (10 cards)
    > 10 Freak Drive
    >
    > Reaction (14 cards)
    > 8 Telepathic Misdirection
    > 6 Wake with Evening`s Freshness
    >
    > Combat (22 cards)
    > 6 Amaranth
    > 8 Burst of Sunlight
    > 8 Skin of Night
    >
    > This deck was last saved at 12:28:18 AM on 7/1/2005
    >

    IMHO, this deck is too unreliable. You need all three combat cards
    (Burst of Sunlight + Skin of Night + Amaranth) to burn the opposing
    minion, and Rotschreck won't help you if you are rushing the Red List
    minion.
    Why don't you include Marie Faucigny and Flak Jackets? You'll get two
    extra votes, free Jackets and even chance to play Sibyl's Tongue.
    Ladislas Toth would be very good, too, especially in a deck that can
    use his Fortitude. You'll be able to get rid of the Anarch cards then.

    Yours,
    Ector
  3. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    The Lasombra schrieb:

    > Deck Name: Tremere Trophy Hunters
    > Created By: The Lasombra
    > Description: Muaziz and Rebecca join the Anarch movement in order to
    > go Trophy hunting. +1 stealth on all actions will go a long way to
    > helping this deck flow.


    How about these thoughts:

    - switching to Group 1/2 crypt:
    Cardano and Ulugh have Fortitude, thus not so much need for
    Fortitude master and T:Discipline, might even ditch Parthenon,
    that all should compensate for bigger crypt size, maybe adding
    the odd weenie/midcap for 1 or 2 'bekkas
    Merrill Molitor springs to mind with his neat special in regards
    to Burst of Sunlight at inf tha

    - switching 1 Parthenon for Rumors of Gehenna

    - switching Academic HG for Arcane Library
    You'll probably fill up with Amaranth-ing vampires with blood,
    later you'll have T:HG

    - including few equipment
    Sargon Fragment/Ivory Bow/Magic of the Smith/Flak Jacket/Seal of
    Veddartha
    Muaziz and 'becca will do the Sargon action at stealth,
    you might be able to fetch the missing peace of your combat combo,
    or a Red List if in need and: permanents = always good

    - switching some Freak Drive for 1 or 2 Rutor's Hand
    you'll propably be able to afford Rutor's cost because of
    Amaranth-refilling and it will pay off in the long run

    - switching 2 or 3 Bum's Rush to Nose of the Hound
    another possibility to get a multi-rush,
    circumventing occasional +1 intercept to hit the right target,
    drawback targetting tapped should be equal to not replacing Bums Rush


    Let us know how it works in the end.
    I'm curious for sure.

    Cheers,
    Alf
  4. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    "The Lasombra" <TheLasombra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:1kh9c1pdgdcuhtalog7mgnc2fbve6ovc1s@4ax.com...
    > Deck Name: Tremere Trophy Hunters
    > Created By: The Lasombra
    > Description: Muaziz and Rebecca join the Anarch movement in order to
    > go Trophy hunting. +1 stealth on all actions will go a long way to
    > helping this deck flow.

    Excellent Idea, I have been kicking this one around, but I see that you have
    brought it to fruition.

    > Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 28, Max: 32, Avg: 7.50)
    > ----------------------------------------------
    > 4 Muaziz aus dom for THA 7, Tremere:2
    > 4 Rebekka AUS pot PRE THA 8, Tremere:2
    > 2 Anastasz di Zagreb ani AUS cel dom THA 8, Tremere:3, Justicar
    > 2 Carna AUS DOM THA 7, Tremere:3, Primogen
    >
    > Library: (90 cards)
    > -------------------
    > Master (23 cards)
    > 1 Academic Hunting Ground
    > 4 Blood Doll
    > 1 Chantry
    > 4 Fortitude
    > 3 Parthenon, The
    > 2 Rotschreck
    > 2 Trophy: Discipline
    > 4 Trophy: Domain
    > 2 Trophy: Hunting Ground

    I would drop 1 Parthanon and 2 Trophy: Domains. Are the Trophy Dicipline
    for Fortitude? If they are then you might want to cut back the Fortitude to
    like 1 or 2.

    > Action (21 cards)
    > 5 Bum`s Rush
    > 1 Fee Stake: Corte
    > 1 Fee Stake: Los Angeles
    > 1 Fee Stake: New York
    > 1 Fee Stake: Perth
    > 6 Go Anarch
    > 6 Red List

    What, no Rutor's Hands!!!
    I would definantly add 3 or 4

    Have you thought about using Graverobbing? What about Ivory Bow? What about
    Ankara Citadel? Perhaps a Magic of the Smith or two to help you get them
    out.

    > Action Modifier (10 cards)
    > 10 Freak Drive
    >
    > Reaction (14 cards)
    > 8 Telepathic Misdirection
    > 6 Wake with Evening`s Freshness
    >
    > Combat (22 cards)
    > 6 Amaranth
    > 8 Burst of Sunlight
    > 8 Skin of Night

    Nice tight combat package. I might be tempted to add Telepathic Tracking if
    they manage to dodge or S:CE.
    --
    Comments Welcome,
    Norman S. Brown, Jr
    XZealot
    Archon of the Swamp
  5. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    On 30 Jun 2005 22:48:29 -0700, "Ector" <Ector@mail.ru> wrote:

    >Why don't you include Marie Faucigny and Flak Jackets? You'll get two
    >extra votes, free Jackets and even chance to play Sibyl's Tongue.
    >Ladislas Toth would be very good, too

    Neither of these minions has +1 stealth on their actions.

    The hope is to actually be able to reach the minions with the Red List
    action card, and then to successfully enter combat with them once
    there.

    The Rotschreck cards are there for Carna who will be untapped playing
    defense. If she gets a Fortitude skill card, she can play the Skin of
    Night instead.


    Carpe noctem.

    Lasombra

    http://www.TheLasombra.com

    Your best online source for information about V:TES.
    Now also featuring individual card sales and sales
    of booster and starter box displays.
  6. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    On 30 Jun 2005 22:48:29 -0700, "Ector" <Ector@mail.ru> wrote:

    >IMHO, this deck is too unreliable.

    Probably. That's why I'm asking for constructive comments.


    >You need all three combat cards
    >(Burst of Sunlight + Skin of Night + Amaranth) to burn the opposing
    >minion,

    No, I don't.

    If my predators last action is blocked, I can simply use the Burst of
    Sunlight to send both vampires to torpor, rescue mine with the
    Chantry, and then have Muaziz take a stroll.

    >and Rotschreck won't help you if you are rushing the Red List
    >minion.

    Rotschreck is there for Carna who will be playing defense without the
    Fortitude discipline card, until it arrives.


    Carpe noctem.

    Lasombra

    http://www.TheLasombra.com

    Your best online source for information about V:TES.
    Now also featuring individual card sales and sales
    of booster and starter box displays.
  7. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    In message <1120193512.299469.186150@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
    Patrick Chaos <patochaos@gmail.com> writes:
    >I don`t understand the need to go anarch, If it`s for the votes so
    >rebeka can also play amaranth...well, perhaps it`s because I`m kind of
    >new to the game, but I think it`s a waste of cards, and requires a lot
    >of setup.

    Red List requires a titled vampire. Neither Rebekka nor Muaziz are
    titled.

    Also, in the case of diablerie, it allows you to (possibly) survive the
    blood hunt, using the anarch votes.


    A minor fringe benefit is that it would allow you to defend against an
    Anarch Revolt deck more easily. A minor nasty is Protect Thine Own,
    however.

    --
    James Coupe
    PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
    EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
    13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
  8. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    The Lasombra wrote:
    > Deck Name: Tremere Trophy Hunters
    > Created By: The Lasombra
    > Description: Muaziz and Rebecca join the Anarch movement in order to
    > go Trophy hunting. +1 stealth on all actions will go a long way to
    > helping this deck flow.
    >
    > Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 28, Max: 32, Avg: 7.50)
    > ----------------------------------------------
    > 4 Muaziz aus dom for THA 7, Tremere:2
    > 4 Rebekka AUS pot PRE THA 8, Tremere:2
    > 2 Anastasz di Zagreb ani AUS cel dom THA 8, Tremere:3, Justicar
    > 2 Carna AUS DOM THA 7, Tremere:3, Primogen
    >
    > Library: (90 cards)
    > -------------------
    > Master (23 cards)
    > 1 Academic Hunting Ground
    > 4 Blood Doll
    > 1 Chantry
    > 4 Fortitude
    > 3 Parthenon, The

    Which masters do you *have* to play as a master phase action? It would
    be nice to play the trophies so you can get more than one for your
    troubles, but is not necessary. You might get lucky and diablerize an
    older vampire and get a Fortitude skill card that way. I would cut the
    3 Parthenon. 1 MPA is probably enough. You could include 1 Rumors of
    Gehenna if you think that second MPA is that valuable.

    > 2 Rotschreck
    > 2 Trophy: Discipline

    These are nice to fill in the wholes in your discipline spread, but I
    don't think they are necessary and you would rather use your trophy
    search for something better. I would cut both.

    > 4 Trophy: Domain
    > 2 Trophy: Hunting Ground

    add 1 Trophy: Diablerie in case your starting crypt doesn't have
    Muaziz. Also, the table might not expect you to diablerize with a big
    vamp when it looks like you'll get torched in the blood hunt. That's
    when you search for Trophy: Diablerie.

    >
    > Action (21 cards)
    > 5 Bum`s Rush

    These should be Big Game. I am guessing that you plan to use the rush
    red list special quiet a bit with only 5 rushes in the deck. Oh yeah,
    and you can block too to get into combat.

    > 1 Fee Stake: Corte
    > 1 Fee Stake: Los Angeles
    > 1 Fee Stake: New York
    > 1 Fee Stake: Perth
    > 6 Go Anarch
    > 6 Red List
    >

    add at least 2 Rutor's Hand, 3 if you can find room.

    > Action Modifier (10 cards)
    > 10 Freak Drive
    >
    > Reaction (14 cards)
    > 8 Telepathic Misdirection
    > 6 Wake with Evening`s Freshness
    >
    > Combat (22 cards)
    > 6 Amaranth
    > 8 Burst of Sunlight
    > 8 Skin of Night
    >
    > This deck was last saved at 12:28:18 AM on 7/1/2005
    >
    >

    Lets see, I cut 5 cards added at least 3 (Trophy: Diablerie, 2-3
    Rutors, maybe Rumors of Gehenna), so I would also add Powerbase: LA.
    You don't have too many extra anarch cards to go away, but the extra
    discard is still nice even when you don't get an untap. Also, with the
    decent number of votes you have floating around 1 Firebrand would be a
    good addition too.

    Let us know how it works for you.

    Later,
    ~Rehlow
  9. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    The Lasombra wrote:
    > On 30 Jvn 2005 22:48:29 -0700, "Ector" <Ector@mail.rv> wrote:
    >
    > >IMHO, this deck is too vnreliable.
    >
    > Probably. That's why I'm asking for constrvctive comments.

    Well, I'm trying to say something vsefvl :) Don't yov think that 8
    Bvrsts of Svnlight is too little for a combat modvle of a Trophy Hvnter
    deck? And if yov don't have Bvrst, yov aren't dangerovs at all (OK,
    Zagreb can steal 1 blood, bvt this isn't too dangerovs...) Wovld yov
    dare to block withovt the Bvrst?
    What abovt permanent combat cards, like Ivory Bow? Yov can fetch it
    with Vast Wealth or Magic of the Smith.

    >
    > >Yov need all three combat cards
    > >(Bvrst of Svnlight + Skin of Night + Amaranth) to bvrn the opposing
    > >minion,
    >
    > No, I don't.
    >
    > If my predators last action is blocked, I can simply vse the Bvrst of
    > Svnlight to send both vampires to torpor, rescve mine with the
    > Chantry, and then have Mvaziz take a stroll.

    Bvt yov shovld prefer bvrning mvnions of yovr prey, right?

    > >and Rotschreck won't help yov if yov are rvshing the Red List
    > >minion.
    >
    > Rotschreck is there for Carna who will be playing defense withovt the
    > Fortitvde discipline card, vntil it arrives.

    I see. Bvt, again, yov need more sovrces of aggravated damage. Carna +
    Ivory Bow can really get yov some time.

    BTW, did yov think abovt the threat of Carlton Van Vyk? He is going to
    be rather popvlar, and he may bvrn yovr vampire after the vampire gets
    a Trophy.

    Yovrs,
    Ector
  10. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Going anarch to go Baron to go Red List to go Amaranth is a largely
    untenable combo. It can be tuned as much as possible, but it's just a
    string of cards that won't be all that competitive. The Barons are
    useless unless you have already gone anarch. The Red Lists are useless
    without the Barons and are also not very useful if an old vampire is
    ruining your day. Starting off with titled vampires, such as Cardano is
    much more efficient. Yea, I get it, he doesn't get to stealth his Red
    List, but he can call a vote to Trump up charges on any target as a
    stealth action and it tends to pass most of the time. Also, if you make
    the combat package scary enough, most people won't block you.
  11. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Preston wrote:
    > Going anarch to go Baron to go Red List to go Amaranth is a largely
    > untenable combo. It can be tuned as much as possible, but it's just a

    The Lasombra is a very good player and has made many fine decks in the
    past. I would even bet most of his half-baked ideas (and this deck is
    better than that) turn out to be better decks than what a lot of
    players build. I don't think this combo is unplayable.

    > string of cards that won't be all that competitive. The Barons are
    > useless unless you have already gone anarch. The Red Lists are useless

    Even if you haven't drawn a Go Anarch card you can take the cardless
    action and then Freak Drive. That gives you 16 cards in the deck to
    become anarch and be untapped. The large blood cost is neglible,
    because you plan to Amaranth a vampire with lots of blood.

    > without the Barons and are also not very useful if an old vampire is

    If you transfer out Zegreb first, your Red Lists will never be
    worthless.

    > ruining your day. Starting off with titled vampires, such as Cardano is
    > much more efficient. Yea, I get it, he doesn't get to stealth his Red

    If you don't have the +1 stealth, you will probably never successfully
    play Red List on anyone who has more than one vampire in play. Actual
    stealth is hard for the Tremere to come by, Muaziz and Rebecca make up
    for that nicely.

    > List, but he can call a vote to Trump up charges on any target as a
    > stealth action and it tends to pass most of the time. Also, if you make
    > the combat package scary enough, most people won't block you.

    I doubt Cardano's 2 votes and the 1 from Trumped Up charges and
    possibly 1 more from the Edge are going to pass many votes, maybe
    sometimes if you are lucky.

    I think this combo is playable enough that I will try it out and then
    I'll report back on its success (or failure).

    Later,
    ~Rehlow
  12. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Rehlow,

    Among my play decks, on is an Anarch deck and one is a Red List Trophy
    deck. I know a bit about the concepts. The combo is not unplayable, but
    it is uncompetitive. Trumped up charges is really not all that hard to
    pass unless the target happens to have a lot of votes himself- most
    other players are more than happy to see someone else's vamp Red
    Listed. And, even if you transfer out Zagreb, if your predator bring up
    Erika, there is no way she is going to get Red Listed in this deck -
    period.
    Furthermore, if Trumped-Up charges were really that hard to pull off in
    any given game, what are the odds your minions will get to keep their
    Baron titles?

    This deck concept is just not going to be competitive. It's best form
    would be to simplify it to a deck of titled-large vamps (Etrius comes
    to mind) that can Red List/Trumped-Up Charges right out of the box.
    Then the order in which you draw the cards becomes much less important.
    If you draw combat cards, then you can rush/bleed and combat. If you
    draw Red List cards then you can Red List. The order of the cards is
    not particularly important. Compare that to Lasombra's submitted deck
    which has two separate groups of cards - Red List and Fee Stakes- which
    are dependent on first getting other cards. And, even if the combo
    works perfectly, it still can't Red List a minion of capacity 9 or
    more.
  13. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    In the case of this deck, Absolution of the Diabolist would be inferior
    to just adding one Trophy: Diablerie.
  14. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 09:30:48 +0100, James Coupe <james@zephyr.org.uk> wrote:

    > A minor nasty is Protect Thine Own, however.

    Probably metagame-dependent; I certainly wouldn't call it minor.

    --
    Bye,

    Daneel
  15. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    James,

    It's going to depend on how the crypt ends up. If it still has a lot of
    Mua Aziz then one Trophy: Diablerie should be fine. Aziz can Amaranth
    regardless, and the Trophy will allow the other minions to kill red
    list minions with impunity. It's only when non-Aziz minions are
    Diablerizing non-Red List minions that you need to have a Absolution of
    the Diablerist in play (combined with a Justicar).
  16. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Let's compare this to something concrete:
    3 Ulegh Beg
    3 Cardano
    3 Jing Wei
    3 Mustafa Rahman

    Masters 18
    2 Arcane Library
    3 Dreams of the Sphinx
    1 Information Highway
    3 Zillah's Valley
    3 Blood Dolls
    Trophy: Domain
    Trophy: Hunting Ground
    Trophy: Diablerie
    Guardian Angel
    Chantry
    Absolution of the Diabolist

    3 Red Lists
    3 Trumped-Up Charges
    8 Deflections

    Combat Package of 30 Cards (you pick)

    Utility Pacage of 28 Cards
    Freak Drives
    Bleed Modifiers
    Wakes
    Intercept

    This deck is much more direct, faster, and loss combo dependent.
  17. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    On 30 Jun 2005 21:51:52 -0700, "Patrick Chaos" <patochaos@gmail.com>
    scrawled:

    >I don`t understand the need to go anarch,

    Barons. Thus meeting a requirement of playing Red List.

    salem
    http://www.users.tpg.com.au/adsltqna/VtES/index.htm
    (replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)
  18. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Lasombra:

    Yea, that's what I was saying. Mua Aziz means never having to say
    you're sorry- for diablierie anyway.
  19. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    On Fri, 01 Jul 2005 18:15:41 +1000, salem
    <salem_christ.geo@hotmail.com> wrote:

    >On 30 Jun 2005 21:51:52 -0700, "Patrick Chaos" <patochaos@gmail.com>
    >scrawled:
    >
    >>I don`t understand the need to go anarch,
    >
    >Barons. Thus meeting a requirement of playing Red List.
    >
    >salem
    >http://www.users.tpg.com.au/adsltqna/VtES/index.htm
    >(replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)

    I'd probably go with Tremere Justicar + Bewitching (Rebekah has PRE,
    and negotiation for voting power should get the rest), and some
    Absolution of the Diabolist (That'd be enough Justicars to make the
    quantity of title irrelevant for Blood Hunts).

    Morgan Vening
  20. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    The Lasombra wrote:
    > On 1 Jul 2005 13:14:13 -0700, "Preston" <prestonpoulter@hotmail.com>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >most other players are more than happy to see someone else's vamp Red
    > >Listed.
    >
    > That is definitely a mistake on their part.
    > If they didn't put Trophy's in their own deck, they cannot make much
    > advantage out of a Red List minion appearing on the table, and it will
    > only benefit you.
    >
    > I would never expect to see Trumped Up Charges pass unless I had vote
    > lock. If I have vote lock, I have better actions to take than enter
    > combat.
    >

    Let's put it this way. Your predator is sneaking and bleeding you into
    oblivion. Your grand predator calls a vote to red list one of your
    predators minions. How do you vote?
  21. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Ector wrote:

    > Bvt yov shovld prefer bvrning mvnions of yovr prey, right?
    >
    >

    a very common misconception!

    >
    > Yovrs,
    > Ector
    >

    yovrs,

    stefan
  22. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    In message <a5v9c15sgvkte3p0uc3ejbnuqfe07vmvg0@4ax.com>, Morgan Vening
    <morgan@optusnet.com.au> writes:
    >I'd probably go with Tremere Justicar + Bewitching (Rebekah has PRE,
    >and negotiation for voting power should get the rest), and some
    >Absolution of the Diabolist (That'd be enough Justicars to make the
    >quantity of title irrelevant for Blood Hunts).

    Absolution of the Diabolist uses master phase actions (which are wanted
    for Red List). If you can achieve the same thing with minion phase
    resources, that's potentially a better deal for the deck.

    --
    James Coupe
    PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
    EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
    13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
  23. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    On 1 Jul 2005 13:14:13 -0700, "Preston" <prestonpoulter@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    >most other players are more than happy to see someone else's vamp Red
    >Listed.

    That is definitely a mistake on their part.
    If they didn't put Trophy's in their own deck, they cannot make much
    advantage out of a Red List minion appearing on the table, and it will
    only benefit you.

    I would never expect to see Trumped Up Charges pass unless I had vote
    lock. If I have vote lock, I have better actions to take than enter
    combat.


    Carpe noctem.

    Lasombra

    http://www.TheLasombra.com

    Your best online source for information about V:TES.
    Now also featuring individual card sales and sales
    of booster and starter box displays.
  24. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    On 1 Jul 2005 14:25:12 -0700, "Preston" <prestonpoulter@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    >It's only when non-Muaziz minions are
    >Diablerizing non-Red List minions that you need to have a Absolution of
    >the Diablerist in play (combined with a Justicar).

    Absolution of the Diablerist does not go in play.
    It sits in your hand until a blood hunt vote is going to burn your
    vampire, or it never reaches your hand. There is no reason for
    Tremere to play with Absolution of the Diablerist when they have
    access to Muaziz.


    Carpe noctem.

    Lasombra

    http://www.TheLasombra.com

    Your best online source for information about V:TES.
    Now also featuring individual card sales and sales
    of booster and starter box displays.
  25. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    In message <1120248922.897266.167790@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
    Preston <prestonpoulter@hotmail.com> writes:
    >In the case of this deck, Absolution of the Diabolist would be inferior
    >to just adding one Trophy: Diablerie.

    Not necessarily. It does rather depend whether or not you can guarantee
    the Red Listing prior to diablerie. A combination of intercept and/or
    Secure Haven, for instance, may cause you some problems - at which
    point, other options might be wanted.

    On balance, T:Diablerie is probably better, but it does depend on what
    you're expecting to face.

    --
    James Coupe
    PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
    EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
    13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
  26. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    In message <1120253112.935618.302460@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
    Preston <prestonpoulter@hotmail.com> decided that using the quotation
    functions of Google was too difficult and then wrote:
    >It's going to depend on how the crypt ends up.

    No, that's not the only thing it depends on.

    >It's only when non-Aziz minions are
    >Diablerizing non-Red List minions

    And in the right/wrong environment (depending on your perspective), it
    could be rather hard to Red List minions. You may well be able to pull
    it off, but even fairly light intercept could well prove to be a
    sticking point.

    --
    James Coupe
    PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
    EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
    13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
  27. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    In message <3igbc1h8uj2ptqtc3japl5s5f9fcd5kbus@4ax.com>, Morgan Vening
    <morgan@optusnet.com.au> writes:
    >On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 20:47:34 +0100, James Coupe <james@zephyr.org.uk>
    >wrote:
    >>Absolution of the Diabolist uses master phase actions (which are wanted
    >>for Red List). If you can achieve the same thing with minion phase
    >>resources, that's potentially a better deal for the deck.
    >
    >I figured with 3 Parthenons, 5 Bum's Rush (probably should be Big
    >Game), and twelve 'fetchable' Masters (8 Trophy, 4 Discipline), MPA
    >wouldn't be THAT big a deal. Given that 10 cards are assigned to the
    >Anarch Solution, I thought it was worth considering.

    I don't trust Parthenon. I mean, it's a great card but that's half the
    problem...

    In general, if I see someone playing The Parthenon, I see it as a point
    of attack if I can. Usually, someone using Parthenon is playing a lot
    of master cards and/or master phase actions. Taking it out is a good
    thing to do, as a result, to try to cause hand-jam and force a larger
    number of tactical choices onto them - do I play Master A *or* Master B,
    instead of playing both? There are other similar sorts of cards which
    are a nexus for other strategies - some unusual plays of Discipline
    cards, say (Obfuscate on that Brujah, eh? If I interfere here...), Clan
    Impersonation, or more recently various of the event cards. They're
    setup cards for something more significant, rather than (e.g.) a Laptop
    on a bleeder, or superior Celerity in a Toreador deck, or whatever.

    Sideways discussion over...


    Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's (Absolution of the Diabolist) an
    altogether bad idea. But I also like the Anarch solution as it works
    nicely on the level of politics, and I always think that (if all other
    things are equal) having more votes is a Good Thing. Of course, all
    other things might not be equal but, yeah, I'm a slut for political
    influence. Not necessarily being able to control a table, but being
    able to interfere with someone else's plans is something I like being
    able to do, where possible. Debate, discussion and bargaining chips are
    things I like to be able to generate when I can. Not that I want to use
    them all the time but I like having the option, should it prove useful.

    --
    James Coupe
    PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
    EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
    13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
  28. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    A few questions:

    a) Why Bum's Rush and not Big Game?

    b) How will you deal with S:CE, dodge, and damage prevention?

    c) Why Trophy: Discipline?

    Thanks.
  29. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    In message <7gecc1l9993v15i5m6alh6svn2av5talha@4ax.com>, salem
    <salem_christ.geo@hotmail.com> writes:
    >i couldn't be bothered finding a Red List Rule reference card, but i
    >am presuming that the action provided my "marking" a red list minion
    >is repeatable?

    Red List: Any Methuselah may use a master phase action to mark a Red
    List minion for the current turn. Any ready vampire she controls may
    enter combat with a marked Red List minion as a +1 stealth (D) action
    that costs 1 blood. Each vampire can take this action only once each
    ^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^
    turn. If a vampire burns a Red List minion in combat or as a (D) action
    ^^^^
    (including diablerie), his controller may go through her library, ash
    heap and/or hand to get a master trophy card to put on that vampire and
    then reshuffle her library or draw back up to her hand size as
    necessary. Other trophies may be moved to this vampire, as well (see
    section 1.6.2). This is done before the blood hunt referendum is called,
    if any.

    :-(

    --
    James Coupe
    PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
    EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
    13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
  30. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 20:47:34 +0100, James Coupe <james@zephyr.org.uk>
    wrote:

    >In message <a5v9c15sgvkte3p0uc3ejbnuqfe07vmvg0@4ax.com>, Morgan Vening
    ><morgan@optusnet.com.au> writes:
    >>I'd probably go with Tremere Justicar + Bewitching (Rebekah has PRE,
    >>and negotiation for voting power should get the rest), and some
    >>Absolution of the Diabolist (That'd be enough Justicars to make the
    >>quantity of title irrelevant for Blood Hunts).
    >
    >Absolution of the Diabolist uses master phase actions (which are wanted
    >for Red List). If you can achieve the same thing with minion phase
    >resources, that's potentially a better deal for the deck.

    I figured with 3 Parthenons, 5 Bum's Rush (probably should be Big
    Game), and twelve 'fetchable' Masters (8 Trophy, 4 Discipline), MPA
    wouldn't be THAT big a deal. Given that 10 cards are assigned to the
    Anarch Solution, I thought it was worth considering.

    Morgan Vening
  31. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Preston wrote:
    > The Lasombra wrote:
    >>On 1 Jul 2005 13:14:13 -0700, "Preston" <prestonpoulter@hotmail.com>
    >>wrote:
    >>
    >>>most other players are more than happy to see someone else's vamp Red
    >>>Listed.
    >>
    >>That is definitely a mistake on their part.
    >>If they didn't put Trophy's in their own deck, they cannot make much
    >>advantage out of a Red List minion appearing on the table, and it will
    >>only benefit you.
    >>
    >>I would never expect to see Trumped Up Charges pass unless I had vote
    >>lock. If I have vote lock, I have better actions to take than enter
    >>combat.
    >
    > Let's put it this way. Your predator is sneaking and bleeding you into
    > oblivion. Your grand predator calls a vote to red list one of your
    > predators minions. How do you vote?

    Way to pick the example most favorable to your position, while ignoring
    all the rest of them. We call this "corner-case", and examples like
    this are typically to be IGNORED during analysis, as they only produce
    results you want to hear, not accurate information... but we've already
    established that's your style anyway, honestly.

    Even given that caveat, in the situation above your predator, grandprey
    and prey all vote against this -- your grandprey doesn't want your
    grandpredator to get a Trophy while burning one of his prey's minions,
    and your own prey doesn't want your predator to quit putting pressure on
    you. It comes down to whoever has the votes, and the odds are _against_
    the person calling Trumped-Up Charges... especially if he has no more
    than 3 votes on the table, which are no guarantee of passing anything.

    In most situations, however, nothing will be so cut-and-dried.

    While I'm not entirely sure the deck concept in general can handle
    itself at a tier 1 level (no bleed mods; long way to go when your prey
    stops transferring), you have clearly overlooked the biggest advantage
    of using the Anarchs angle: You can get a title without having to pass a
    vote. In a single turn, Muaziz can Go Anarch, untap, become a Baron,
    Freak Drive, and Red List a minion -- all at stealth. You don't need to
    Red List Arika in that deck; the 5 Bum's Rushes will do well enough.
    You just need to Red List something easily burnable.

    I personally use Galaric's Legacy instead, simply because people tend to
    block the Go Anarch stuff. Muaziz' special helps Go Anarch noticeably,
    but I think 2nd Tradition is going to be a major problem for the deck.

    As far as the deck you posted; it looks nothing like the Lasombra's
    deck, and at 0- and +1 stealth, its Red List angle won't go off...
    leaving it looking much like a classic Tremere "bleed a little, block a
    little, Theft a little, curl up and die a little" deck that would _most_
    benefit from removing all the Red List cards and adding Seductions.

    --
    Derek

    insert clever quotation here
  32. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    On Fri, 01 Jul 2005 00:31:08 -0400, The Lasombra
    <TheLasombra@hotmail.com> scrawled:

    >Deck Name: Tremere Trophy Hunters
    >Created By: The Lasombra
    >Description: Muaziz and Rebecca join the Anarch movement in order to
    >go Trophy hunting. +1 stealth on all actions will go a long way to
    >helping this deck flow.

    the core ideas i like from what other people have posted are:

    rutor's or two
    permanent agg (ivory bow, etc)
    ankara
    magic of the smith x 3 or so.

    i couldn't be bothered finding a Red List Rule reference card, but i
    am presuming that the action provided my "marking" a red list minion
    is repeatable? it's not an action provided by a card in play, and is
    not a card itself (the enter combat action that costs a
    blood)....hmmm....

    maybe push the deck up to 53 Freak Drives? :)


    salem
    http://www.users.tpg.com.au/adsltqna/VtES/index.htm
    (replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)
  33. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Hey Derek,

    First off, I made a thread for you to post our exchange. Actually, we
    have been talking about what a ass you are over at Ash Heap. If you
    want, you can post it over there, because they have actually been
    asking to see what an ass you are. If, on the other hand, you want to
    post it here, feel free. I made a thread for you already.

    I am glad you like the Ventrue deck. Do I have your permission to post,
    Derek's Seal of Approval in the Decklist? As for the Malakavian deck,
    I'm sorry you don't approve. Of course, the place to post any
    criticisms thereof would be in the actual BWP: Malakavian thread.

    As for Trumped-Up Charges, it is significantly different than a cross
    table Praxis Seizure: it does not gain any extra votes to come back and
    haunt you. It instead targets someone's vampire for destruction. You
    may or may not like that depending on your relation to that player. The
    typical VTES dynamic is that the enemy of my enemy is my friend, so
    getting cross table support for a trumped-up charges is not all that
    unlikely.

    Secondly, the decklist I posted will tend to come out pretty fast.
    Getting a 2nd turn Ulegh or Cardano is not all that uncommon. They can
    then go to Trumped-Up Charges or Red List a long minion of your
    predator or prey without much trouble. But, what if they don't. Well,
    really, who cares. The way I see it, the deck at it's essence is a
    Tremere combat deck with Trophies not a Tremere Trophy deck with
    combat. If all Red List is is an invitation to combat then oh well-
    time to burn something. It is the deck that devotes so many resources
    to Trophies that had a problem if the combo doesn't happen.

    I look forward to reading our correspondence.

    Cheers,
    Preston
  34. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    > > I'm sorry you don't approve. Of course, the place to post any
    > > criticisms thereof would be in the actual BWP: Malakavian thread.
    >
    > And because it's not in the 'proper' thread (OH NOES!), it's completely
    > paralyzed you and rendered you unable to respond to any of those
    > criticisms, I see.
    >

    Eh, it's a bit strange to discuss a BWP: Malkavian deck in the middle
    of a Tremere Trophy hunting deck. Also, one has to wonder if we are
    really talking cards at this point. Are you really just so vehemently
    opposed to Disguised Weapons in a Malkavian Deck or are you trying to
    escalate a pissing contest? That you didn't post your BWP: Malkavian
    criticisms to that thread and are instead turning this thread into a
    "10 things i hate about you thread" would suggest the latter.
    <snip>?
    > With only 3 Zillah's Valley and 1 Info Highway to choose from, getting
    > one in your opening hand is not all THAT likely, unless you shuffle a
    > little bit funny perhaps?

    You forgot the the Dreams of the SPhinx and the Arcane Libraries.
    >

    <snip>

    > And this is exactly why I pointed out that your deck is not the same as
    > The Lasombra's. His deck is a Tremere Trophy deck. It intends to use
    > Trophies. That's the whole point of it. Yours has a Trophy sideline;
    > as such, it doesn't care if Trumped-Up Charges fails.
    >

    Ah well I guess that's my philosophy on Trophies. They should be a
    sideline to what your deck does. not the main function.
  35. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    "Arcane Library won't help you get Ulugh Beg on turn 2 since you need a

    Tremere already in play to even use it. It's hot tech, but it's
    middlegame hot tech, not quick opener tech.
    Dreams only gets you one extra transfer twice; hope you started with at

    least 3 transfers, and even then you can only get Cardano on turn 2,
    not
    Ulugh. "

    If you start with 4 transfers, you can play a turn 1 dreams, bring out
    Mustafa with 2 transfers, put the other 2 on Cardano plus one for the
    Dreams. Next turn you can play the Library, use the library plus the
    dreams, plus the 4 transfers = turn 2 Cardano.

    In regards to using Seductions, I prefer the Trophies.

    As for your Malkavian criticisms, I will move those the the Malkavian
    thread.
  36. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    I'll just go back to my original point that with the Dreams, the
    Highway, the Valleys, and the Arcane Library, you can get the big
    titled minions out pretty early.
  37. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Preston wrote:
    > Hey Derek,
    >
    > First off, I made a thread for you to post our exchange. Actually, we

    Done, and done.

    > I am glad you like the Ventrue deck. Do I have your permission to post,
    > Derek's Seal of Approval in the Decklist? As for the Malakavian deck,

    Permission granted. Those who care will approve. Those who don't care
    will, well, not care.

    I say what I say, and if people like it, they do, and if they don't,
    they don't. I'd love it to death if everyone agreed with everything I
    ever said; and if it ever actually happened that way, I'd look over my
    shoulder for the Candid Camera setup.

    > I'm sorry you don't approve. Of course, the place to post any
    > criticisms thereof would be in the actual BWP: Malakavian thread.

    And because it's not in the 'proper' thread (OH NOES!), it's completely
    paralyzed you and rendered you unable to respond to any of those
    criticisms, I see.

    > As for Trumped-Up Charges, it is significantly different than a cross
    > table Praxis Seizure: it does not gain any extra votes to come back and
    > haunt you. It instead targets someone's vampire for destruction. You

    No. It gains someone else a Trophy that will come back and haunt you.
    A popular one, unsurprisingly, is Trophy: Domain, which is a
    particularly stout card if you can figure out a way to get it on a minion.

    Putting Domain on Muaziz is like saying "This Amaranth machine here,
    who's likely always going to be full of blood, is now going to be able
    to untap and block with +1 intercept a LOT, and later, YOUR vampires can
    have the chance to visit Mr. Amaranth."

    If you know that you won't ever be taking actions at less than +2
    stealth, perhaps Domain is not so meaningful to you. Few decks can have
    that confidence.

    > may or may not like that depending on your relation to that player. The
    > typical VTES dynamic is that the enemy of my enemy is my friend, so

    Or at least that's how it appears at first. But realistically, the
    enemy of your enemy will LATER be your enemy... so allowing things like
    Domain into play is just a bad plan, no matter what. At least if you
    intend to sweep.

    > getting cross table support for a trumped-up charges is not all that
    > unlikely.

    And it's not that likely, either... especially when you're playing
    Muaziz, Cardano, or Ulugh Beg. Most people expect a Burst/Amaranth,
    Ivory Bow/Amaranth, or Dawn Op/Weather Control/Skin of Night/you guessed
    it, Amaranth from these vampires, because they're awfully good at doing
    exactly that. Muaziz more so than any other, obviously, because she
    fears no Blood Hunt.

    Trying to pass Trumped-up Charges guarantees to everyone else that
    you're playing with an easy way to burn vampires; you might as well open
    your hand and show them the Bursts. What everyone else must ask
    themselves immediately is: can my deck deal with aggressive
    burnination, when this deck becomes my enemy? If the answer is "no" or
    "maybe", Trumped-Up Charges will be failed if possible.

    > Secondly, the decklist I posted will tend to come out pretty fast.
    > Getting a 2nd turn Ulegh or Cardano is not all that uncommon. They can

    With only 3 Zillah's Valley and 1 Info Highway to choose from, getting
    one in your opening hand is not all THAT likely, unless you shuffle a
    little bit funny perhaps?

    > then go to Trumped-Up Charges or Red List a long minion of your
    > predator or prey without much trouble. But, what if they don't. Well,
    > really, who cares. The way I see it, the deck at it's essence is a
    > Tremere combat deck with Trophies not a Tremere Trophy deck with
    > combat.

    And this is exactly why I pointed out that your deck is not the same as
    The Lasombra's. His deck is a Tremere Trophy deck. It intends to use
    Trophies. That's the whole point of it. Yours has a Trophy sideline;
    as such, it doesn't care if Trumped-Up Charges fails.

    --
    Derek

    insert clever quotation here
  38. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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    Preston wrote:
    >>>I'm sorry you don't approve. Of course, the place to post any
    >>>criticisms thereof would be in the actual BWP: Malakavian thread.
    >>
    >>And because it's not in the 'proper' thread (OH NOES!), it's completely
    >>paralyzed you and rendered you unable to respond to any of those
    >>criticisms, I see.
    >
    > Eh, it's a bit strange to discuss a BWP: Malkavian deck in the middle
    > of a Tremere Trophy hunting deck. Also, one has to wonder if we are
    > really talking cards at this point. Are you really just so vehemently
    > opposed to Disguised Weapons in a Malkavian Deck or are you trying to

    Not at all. The Disguised .44s, for example, are an excellent addition
    to most OBF-based stealth/bleed decks, as it increases the threshhold of
    combat people require in order to off your minions -- they need ranged
    combat or a consistent maneuver, for example. Seems small, but can
    matter a lot. And if someone with 1 blood carelessly tries to block
    you, you always have the option of allowing yourself to be blocked and
    popping his minion as a surprise.

    The Disguised Blow Torches, however, are just awful. They put your
    minions in combat at close range, where they're guaranteed to be punched
    for at least 1. They encourage the player to LET their minions get into
    combat, even worse in a deckstyle that runs best when it's being
    non-interactive. When a stealth/bleed deck trades torporized minions
    with other decks, it is often losing the trade unless it can follow up
    with something like Grave Robbing. (at least makes the Torch bearable,
    but I can understand if you don't want to hand out Grave Robbings
    willy-nilly.)

    >>With only 3 Zillah's Valley and 1 Info Highway to choose from, getting
    >>one in your opening hand is not all THAT likely, unless you shuffle a
    >>little bit funny perhaps?
    >
    > You forgot the the Dreams of the SPhinx and the Arcane Libraries.

    Arcane Library won't help you get Ulugh Beg on turn 2 since you need a
    Tremere already in play to even use it. It's hot tech, but it's
    middlegame hot tech, not quick opener tech.

    Dreams only gets you one extra transfer twice; hope you started with at
    least 3 transfers, and even then you can only get Cardano on turn 2, not
    Ulugh.

    > Ah well I guess that's my philosophy on Trophies. They should be a
    > sideline to what your deck does. not the main function.

    So far, that seems to be the most consistent way to use them.
    Unfortunately, this Ulughs another question, which I've already brought
    up in a different form earlier this thread: Is it better to simply use
    8x Seduction in that posted deck, instead of the Trophy cards?

    - --
    Derek

    insert clever quotation here
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  39. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

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    Preston wrote:
    Derek wrote:
    >> "Arcane Library won't help you get Ulugh Beg on turn 2 since you need a
    >> Tremere already in play to even use it. It's hot tech, but it's
    >> middlegame hot tech, not quick opener tech.
    >>
    >> Dreams only gets you one extra transfer twice; hope you started with at
    >> least 3 transfers, and even then you can only get Cardano on turn 2,
    >> not Ulugh. "
    >
    > If you start with 4 transfers, you can play a turn 1 dreams, bring out
    > Mustafa with 2 transfers, put the other 2 on Cardano plus one for the
    > Dreams. Next turn you can play the Library, use the library plus the
    > dreams, plus the 4 transfers = turn 2 Cardano.

    What do you do, table-shuffle face up to get this draw, and bribe the
    judge to make sure you sit in seat 4 or 5? :) Dude, please. =)

    With only 3x Dreams and 2x Library in a 90-card deck, I refer you to the
    definition of "corner-case" again; please don't waste everyone's time
    with silly examples like this one.

    - --
    Derek

    insert clever quotation here
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  40. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

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    Hash: SHA1

    Preston wrote:
    > I'll just go back to my original point that with the Dreams, the
    > Highway, the Valleys, and the Arcane Library, you can get the big
    > titled minions out pretty early.

    Correction: your original statement was...

    "Secondly, the decklist I posted will tend to come out pretty fast.
    Getting a 2nd turn Ulegh or Cardano is not all that uncommon."

    I will maintain that it IS uncommon to see the big guys on turn 2, and
    that it will NOT "tend" to come out pretty fast.

    It's certainly possible to get the big titled guys out early, because
    you do have a chance of drawing Zillah's or Info Highway. But if you
    have to go through the full influence rigmarole, you're likely to be
    stuck defending with a 10-cap and a dingus for awhile... which might be
    fatal against a fast ("I Seduce Ulugh Beg") predator.

    - --
    Derek

    insert clever quotation here
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    iD8DBQFCx2pLtQZlu3o7QpERAsUHAJsEeYdSGcNeiTvov2GJBvjiNs4gUQCdFVXE
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  41. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    James,

    The deck I submitted has 6 weenies who come out early to deflect
    bleeds. The deck list I submitted will probably die to an aggressive
    fast focused deck, but it will probably last a few turns longer than
    the original deck which is focused entirely on Trophy's.
  42. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    In message <1120361265.579093.106320@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
    Preston <prestonpoulter@hotmail.com> writes:
    >If you start with 4 transfers, you can play a turn 1 dreams, bring out
    >Mustafa with 2 transfers, put the other 2 on Cardano plus one for the
    >Dreams.

    Picking best case scenarios isn't generally sensible.

    In your first turn, you get (on average) 2.8 transfers on a 5 player
    table: 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 4 = 14. Divide by 5, so that's 2.8.

    On a 4 player table, you have an average of 2.5.

    The biggest problem in the early game is often along the lines of "What
    happens when a weenie deck comes and Computer Hacks me repeatedly?" Of
    course, it's not just bleed decks, or even just weenie decks, that can
    be scary in the early game, because there are other options - e.g.
    weenies playing KRC and some Praxis Seizures/Crusades (delete to taste).

    But when that happens (as it can and quite possibly will), the
    difference between the average number of transfers you get and the
    optimum number of transfers you want can delay you by a turn, which is
    just enough for a weenie hoard to come and smack you silly.

    --
    James Coupe
    PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
    EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
    13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
  43. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 08:26:16 +0100, James Coupe <james@zephyr.org.uk>
    scrawled:

    >In message <7gecc1l9993v15i5m6alh6svn2av5talha@4ax.com>, salem
    ><salem_christ.geo@hotmail.com> writes:
    >>i couldn't be bothered finding a Red List Rule reference card, but i
    >>am presuming that the action provided my "marking" a red list minion
    >>is repeatable?
    >
    >Red List: Any Methuselah may use a master phase action to mark a Red
    >List minion for the current turn. Any ready vampire she controls may
    >enter combat with a marked Red List minion as a +1 stealth (D) action
    >that costs 1 blood. Each vampire can take this action only once each
    > ^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^
    >turn. If a vampire burns a Red List minion in combat or as a (D) action
    >^^^^
    >(including diablerie), his controller may go through her library, ash
    >heap and/or hand to get a master trophy card to put on that vampire and
    >then reshuffle her library or draw back up to her hand size as
    >necessary. Other trophies may be moved to this vampire, as well (see
    >section 1.6.2). This is done before the blood hunt referendum is called,
    >if any.
    >
    >:-(

    damnit. i suspected as much, but...rrrr. how dare they do things like
    this in the "rules". next thing you know people will actually wait
    until i have finished my discard phase before starting their turn....


    salem
    http://www.users.tpg.com.au/adsltqna/VtES/index.htm
    (replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)
  44. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    James,

    I am replying to your post without a single quotation. This scandalous
    and supercilious use of the news reader is truly unconscionable, By all
    means report me to the internet police at once. Clearly, I am not to be
    trusted. My VEKN number must be revoked at once and I need to be
    reported to the department of homeland security. Obviously, my days on
    the MtG Pro Tour have left me so amazingly arrogant that I now
    didactically dictating deck designs of dubious distinction to my fellow
    denizens.

    ACK! Run for the hills.
  45. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    I think you would get more consistent results if you kept your 8
    Amaranths, but used the other 16 slots to build around agg weapons,
    maybe 4 weapons (or 3 weapons and the superbowl) and 4 Magic of the
    Smith, and Groundfighting. You are going anarch anyway, and
    Groundfighting + weapon is hot, hot, hot.

    Oh wait, I just double checked before I posted, and you only have 6
    Amaranths. I'd want 8, and I wouldn't want to lose any freak drives for
    them, which I guess leaves dropping two wakes for two more Amaranths.
    That would be OK with me, since if the deck is flowing you can probably
    leave smoking holes where minions used to be, offsetting the need to
    wake as much.

    --

    David Cherryholmes
  46. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    In message <1120401284.618993.41770@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
    Preston <prestonpoulter@hotmail.com> decided that he couldn't be
    bothered to quote anything of the article to which he is responding in
    order to make it harder to understand any thread in which he
    participates. However, he then goes on to write:
    >James,
    >
    >The deck I submitted has 6 weenies who come out early to deflect
    >bleeds.

    Irrelevant to the point at hand, which would be simpler to see if you
    bothered to quote relevant portions of what was written.

    Please note that NOT quoting what you are responding to makes it
    significantly easier to imagine completely irrelevant things.


    The point being made was about the potentially significant difference
    between average transfers and maximum (potentially optimum, for a given
    deck) transfers. Saying "But this will work when I get maximum
    transfers" is unhelpful and, typically, wrong.

    Note also that Deflections typically don't hold much threat for a weenie
    hoard, especially when there are only 8 of them. It's a 0 stealth bleed
    for 2 (if using Computer Hacking, say) - this qualifies quite neatly
    under a lot of "responsible" bleed strategies. It also has enough spare
    actions to draw out minimal defence.

    Note also that if you had bothered to quote relevant portions of the
    post to which you were responding, it would have been significantly
    easier to see that weenie bleeds were only one of the problems being
    noted. Deflections will not protect you against many other speedy
    strategies.

    --
    James Coupe
    PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
    EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
    13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
  47. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    In message <1120437442.882586.220040@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
    Preston, the ignorant, selfish fool, <prestonpoulter@hotmail.com> mashed
    on his keyboard with his fists and produced the following dirge of
    nonsense:
    >I am replying to your post without a single quotation. This scandalous
    >and supercilious use of the news reader is truly unconscionable, By all
    >means report me to the internet police at once.

    *sigh*

    The point, for most people, of posting to Usenet is to have some sort of
    dialogue with other people.

    In order to do that, most people put in the minimal effort to make their
    posts easier to read and the thread of dialogue easier to follow. This
    means that their posts will be read and understood by more people.


    You have decided that following established Usenet convention is beneath
    you. This makes your posts harder to read. This is because you are a
    selfish, ignorant idiot. The point is that *you* put in the entirely
    minimal effort of using the quotation function of your newsreader (which
    is easily available, even on Google), so that everyone else can follow
    exactly what you are saying and why.

    Instead, you post randomly beneath different posts, with no indication
    of what you are responding to. As you will note, this means that your
    posts are hard to follow and that you repeatedly miss the point by not
    actually responding to what is written but what you THINK is written.

    This is because you are selfish, self-serving and ignorant.


    This is nothing to do with the Internet police, and all to do with you
    being a cretinous idiot who refuses to actually follow the conventions
    of the medium he is in. You want people to help you with your Barbed
    Wire project and then, when they do, refuse to actually do anything
    helpful to deal with it. Stamp stamp stamp, quoting relevant portions
    of posts is too hard for you so you won't bother. Stamp stamp stamp.

    These are FREE CLUES you are being given. You are ignoring them.
    Because you are both selfish and a fool. It is nothing to do with it
    being a scandal.

    You want people to respond to your posts? Post in a helpful fashion.

    You actually want people to provide you with useful insights?
    Apparently not, otherwise you'd post in a helpful fashion after this has
    been pointed out to you repeatedly.


    Consider *why* everyone else does the same thing (to make the thread of
    conversation significantly easier for everyone to follow in long and
    complex threads - which any thread can become without warning), and why
    you do not do so (because you are lazy and selfish).


    Note also that, because of the vagueness of post propagation on Usenet,
    it is quite, quite possible for people to receive some of the replies to
    a post but not the original post - or to have it delayed by some
    minutes, hours, days. This is significantly less common than in days of
    yore, but it still happens. This is not a web-forum with a centralized
    database.

    Further, for people using Google (such as yourself), the X-No-Archive
    function means that all people will see in response to X-No-Archive-d
    posts when they look back is a series of responses, with ABSOLUTELY ZERO
    content from the non-archived posts. This completely destroys the
    ability to follow a thread.


    But yeah. You just continue making noise because you don't need to
    behave in a helpful fashion for the rest of us.

    Why should the rest of us have to pick out the badly quoted sections in
    your posts, because you can't be bothered to hit the quote function of
    your newsreader? There is absolutely no way that when you quote badly
    that it looks like anything other than stream of consciousness arguing,
    because you do not credit the other person in any way, shape or form -
    remember, your newsreader can do that for you in a second, if you bother
    to put in two minutes learning how to drive it.

    But yeah, you know about Magic Pro Tours so I guess that the idea of
    actually being helpful when discussing V:TES is beneath you.


    Why not actually grow up and participate in a helpful fashion, rather
    than foot-stamping about the Internet police? Or is that too much like
    being both helpful, useful and sensible for you to cope with?

    --
    James Coupe
    PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
    EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
    13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
  48. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    James Coupe wrote:
    > In message <1120437442.882586.220040@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
    > Preston, the ignorant, selfish fool, <prestonpoulter@hotmail.com> mashed
    > on his keyboard with his fists and produced the following dirge of
    > nonsense:
    > >I am replying to your post without a single quotation. This scandalous
    > >and supercilious use of the news reader is truly unconscionable, By all
    > >means report me to the internet police at once.
    >
    > *sigh*
    >
    > The point, for most people, of posting to Usenet is to have some sort of
    > dialogue with other people.
    >
    > In order to do that, most people put in the minimal effort to make their
    > posts easier to read and the thread of dialogue easier to follow. This
    > means that their posts will be read and understood by more people.
    >
    Hmmm. Let me see if I get this. You are saying that I should include
    relevant text so people will understand what I'm saying. So... you mean
    you probably shouldn't have started criticizing my BWP: Malkavian deck
    in the middle of a thread on Tremere Trophy decks without any relevant
    text. And, let me think, oh yea, by me moving your criticisms to the
    actual thread they belonged in I was actually making your
    self-indulgent diatribes a bit more relevant. Oh, well good for me.

    >
    > You have decided that following established Usenet convention is beneath
    > you. This makes your posts harder to read. This is because you are a
    > selfish, ignorant idiot. The point is that *you* put in the entirely
    > minimal effort of using the quotation function of your newsreader (which
    > is easily available, even on Google), so that everyone else can follow
    > exactly what you are saying and why.
    >
    > Instead, you post randomly beneath different posts, with no indication
    > of what you are responding to. As you will note, this means that your
    > posts are hard to follow and that you repeatedly miss the point by not
    > actually responding to what is written but what you THINK is written.
    >
    > This is because you are selfish, self-serving and ignorant.

    If you do say so yourself. Actually, you are the only person who has
    complain to this date that my posts are hard to understand. You do so
    in a rather bizarre fashion. In one thread that contained all of 4
    posts total you jumped in and criticized me for not citing relevant
    text when it was pretty clear I was referring to the poster right above
    mine whom I addressed by name.
    >
    >
    > This is nothing to do with the Internet police, and all to do with you
    > being a cretinous idiot who refuses to actually follow the conventions
    > of the medium he is in. You want people to help you with your Barbed
    > Wire project and then, when they do, refuse to actually do anything
    > helpful to deal with it. Stamp stamp stamp, quoting relevant portions
    > of posts is too hard for you so you won't bother. Stamp stamp stamp.
    >
    > These are FREE CLUES you are being given. You are ignoring them.
    > Because you are both selfish and a fool. It is nothing to do with it
    > being a scandal.
    >

    That's right James. It has nothing to do with being a scandal. It does
    have to do with you disingenuously hiding under the banner of useful
    internet etiquette to engage in a rather unwarranted personal attack on
    me for whatever reason.

    > You want people to respond to your posts? Post in a helpful fashion.
    >
    > You actually want people to provide you with useful insights?
    > Apparently not, otherwise you'd post in a helpful fashion after this has
    > been pointed out to you repeatedly.
    >

    Pointed out by you in the form of personal attack. No one else has yet
    to complain and many people have responded to the salient points of my
    posts. THis suggests that they were able to follow them just fine.

    >
    > Consider *why* everyone else does the same thing (to make the thread of
    > conversation significantly easier for everyone to follow in long and
    > complex threads - which any thread can become without warning), and why
    > you do not do so (because you are lazy and selfish).
    >
    >
    > Note also that, because of the vagueness of post propagation on Usenet,
    > it is quite, quite possible for people to receive some of the replies to
    > a post but not the original post - or to have it delayed by some
    > minutes, hours, days. This is significantly less common than in days of
    > yore, but it still happens. This is not a web-forum with a centralized
    > database.
    >
    > Further, for people using Google (such as yourself), the X-No-Archive
    > function means that all people will see in response to X-No-Archive-d
    > posts when they look back is a series of responses, with ABSOLUTELY ZERO
    > content from the non-archived posts. This completely destroys the
    > ability to follow a thread.
    >
    >
    > But yeah. You just continue making noise because you don't need to
    > behave in a helpful fashion for the rest of us.
    >

    You know James, I'm not sure how you conduct your personal life, but,
    if not one has yet told you, trying to lord your knowledge of a topic
    over someone by way of personal attacks and mischaracterizations are
    really not the best way to win friends and influence people.

    > Why should the rest of us have to pick out the badly quoted sections in
    > your posts, because you can't be bothered to hit the quote function of
    > your newsreader? There is absolutely no way that when you quote badly
    > that it looks like anything other than stream of consciousness arguing,
    > because you do not credit the other person in any way, shape or form -
    > remember, your newsreader can do that for you in a second, if you bother
    > to put in two minutes learning how to drive it.
    >
    > But yeah, you know about Magic Pro Tours so I guess that the idea of
    > actually being helpful when discussing V:TES is beneath you.
    >
    >

    You're just taking that and running with it. I'm not ashamed of what I
    accomplished by any means, but I also never brought it up here in this
    forum. It was brought up in the text of an email exchange between
    myself and Derek in order to respond to his question of my relevant CCG
    experience. This has been twisted by you in a post you made as,

    "Stamp Stamp Stamp. I'm a Mtg Pro Tour Player, therefore I know
    everything about VTES."

    That you made this gross mischaracterization in the middle of a
    personal attack on me under the pretext of clarity was ironic, if
    nothing else.

    > Why not actually grow up and participate in a helpful fashion, rather
    > than foot-stamping about the Internet police? Or is that too much like
    > being both helpful, useful and sensible for you to cope with?
    >

    Hmm participate instead of foot stamping. You mean, like posting a
    newsletter. Or perhaps a series of decks designed for new players? Or
    perhaps posting my feedback on various deck designs where I feel I have
    something to contribute? Or perhaps conducting VTES demos once a week
    for a couple of hours and posting my suggestions in case anyone else
    wants to follow suit? Of yeah, I do all those things. So your
    mischaracterizations and attacks on me as a do nothing whiner are
    misplaced.
  49. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Preston wrote:
    > Actually, you are the only person who has
    > complain to this date that my posts are hard to understand.

    Many people in this community prefer responses with quotes, including
    me. Seeing the context of a message makes it much easier to follow a
    thread. So I'll add my request: Please continue to quote selectively
    from posts you reply to.

    And hey, let's just let this flame war die out. Just figure everybody
    caught everybody on a bad day and start fresh.
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