Gencon 2005 Event Registration Information

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Event Information:

Game ID: TCG00298
Title: North American Championships Last Chance Qualifier
Event Description: The last qualifier before the North American
Championships. This is a standard constructed tournament with three
rounds plus a final. No elimination (everyone plays all three rounds).
Each round is three hours. The first round starts promptly at 4:00 pm,
so arrive early.
Event Type: TCG - Tradable Card/Dice Game
Game System: Vampire: The Eternal Struggle CCG
Rules Edition: Current
Age Requirement: Teen (13+)
Experience Required: Some Experience Needed
Event Duration (hours): 8
Event Start Date: 8/18/05 4:00 PM
Event End Date: 8/19/05 12:00 AM
Event Cost: $6.00
Gaming Group/Sponsor: White Wolf Publishing / Camarilla
Game Master Name(s): Vampire: Elder Kindred Network
Location: TCG HQ
Event limit: 80
Registrations Available: 64


Game ID: TCG00299
Title: North American Championship Round 1 and Shadow Twin
Event Type: TCG - Tradable Card/Dice Game
Game System: Vampire: The Eternal Struggle CCG
Rules Edition: Current
Age Requirement: Teen (13+)
Experience Required: Some Experience Needed
Event Duration (hours): 8
Event Start Date: 8/19/05 12:00 PM
Event Cost: $6.00
Gaming Group/Sponsor: White Wolf Publishing / Camarilla
Game Master Name(s): Vampire: Elder Kindred Network
Location: TCG HQ


Game ID: TCG00300
Title: North American Championship Round 2 and Shadow Twin Draft
Event Type: TCG - Tradable Card/Dice Game
Game System: Vampire: The Eternal Struggle CCG
Rules Edition: Current
Age Requirement: Teen (13+)
Experience Required: Some Experience Needed
Event Duration (hours): 8
Event Start Date: 8/20/05 12:00 PM
Event Cost: $6.00
Gaming Group/Sponsor: White Wolf Publishing / Camarilla
Game Master Name(s): Vampire: Elder Kindred Network
Location: TCG HQ









Thanks for Jay Kristoff (http://columbusvtes.tripod.com) and LSJ for
the info.

















Carpe noctem.

Lasombra

http://www.TheLasombra.com

Your best online source for information about V:TES.
Now also featuring individual card sales and sales
of booster and starter box displays.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

The Lasombra wrote:
> Event Information:
>
> Game ID: TCG00298
> Title: North American Championships Last Chance Qualifier
> >
> Game ID: TCG00299
> Title: North American Championship Round 1 and Shadow Twin
> >
>
> Game ID: TCG00300
> Title: North American Championship Round 2 and Shadow Twin Draft

Don't forget:

Event ID: 1865
Game ID: TCG00301
Title: Create-A-Clan Open
Event Description: An unsanctioned format. Each player brings a crypt
of custom vampires he or she creates for this event (see for rules on
vampire creation and other details).
Event Type: TCG - Tradable Card/Dice Game
Game System: Vampire: The Eternal Struggle CCG
Rules Edition: Current
Age Requirement: Teen (13+)
Experience Required: Some Experience Needed
Event Duration (hours): 6
Event Start Date: 8/21/05 9:00 AM
Event End Date: 8/21/05 3:00 PM
Event Cost: $4.50
Gaming Group/Sponsor: White Wolf Publishing / Camarilla
Game Master Name(s): Vampire: Elder Kindred Network
Location: TCG HQ
Event limit: 150
Registrations Available: 145

-Ben Swainbank

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Thanks for the insight. I would say I agree mostly with why it is two
days. Doesn't really answer any of my main beef's however which is why
its held at gencon? and why you have to pay so much to some other
company to play in the championship. Look all i'm saying is if you are
going to start having an event that is 3 days long...trying to paste it
on top of another event that is only 4 days long isnt such a steller
idea. in my case gencon is 4 days of gaming. there are things other
then VTES that might be fun to do, but this championship is basically
an all or nothing deal. they are saying, if you want to play VTES we
are going to own your whole weekend, and you are going to pay and pay
and pay for it. i dont think that kind of hardline strategy is good
for a game seeking player growth. i would imagine it would be better
for gencon to be showcasing VTES in smaller 1-2 round tournaments that
people could stop in for between other events and give it a try rather
then having to commit such a tremendous amount of time to. it is,
after all, gencon: the game convention and not, VTES the weekend. as
much fun as it would be to have VTES: the weekend i think those 2
should be seperate and the bigger picture should be examined.

and when, exactly, would you do demoing for 8 hours if you are playing
8 hour tournaments 3 days straight? maybe i will. VTES iron man!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"The NosferatuStuff" <roansteele@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1120771311.065055.137990@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks for the insight. I would say I agree mostly with why it is two
> days. Doesn't really answer any of my main beef's however which is why
> its held at gencon? and why you have to pay so much to some other
> company to play in the championship. Look all i'm saying is if you are
> going to start having an event that is 3 days long...trying to paste it
> on top of another event that is only 4 days long isnt such a steller
> idea.

Yes, I see what you're getting at. If reducing the cost for participants
is a priority, you're right: a better way to do that would be to hold the
NAC at some other venue. In theory, they could even hold it alongside
Gencon at another venue in Indianapolis over the same days. That way,
people who want to go back and forth could still do that.

I don't know exactly what considerations lead White Wolf to do the NAC
the way they do. However, were I the one in charge, I would be want
the maximum exposure for my game which translates into having my big
year-end super-cool championship-of-da-hol'-woild tournament actually
take place _in_ the biggest game convention of the year where lots of
players, retailers, and game business luminaries could see it on the
schedule and in the flesh. I think it's especially impressive that
scores of players are sitting around playing in a single tournament
and if that tournament is a 2-day affair, so much the better. That may
not be much help for you in the short run, but if it drums up more
business in the long run, that means more players for us and hence,
more opportunities to play. Anyway, just my $0.02. I don't really
know one way or the other, myself.

Fred

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Frederick Scott wrote:
> "The NosferatuStuff" <roansteele@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1120771311.065055.137990@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> > Thanks for the insight. I would say I agree mostly with why it is two
> > days. Doesn't really answer any of my main beef's however which is why
> > its held at gencon? and why you have to pay so much to some other
> > company to play in the championship. Look all i'm saying is if you are
> > going to start having an event that is 3 days long...trying to paste it
> > on top of another event that is only 4 days long isnt such a steller
> > idea.

What's especially funny is that V:TES players have been known to tack
on a few extra days of our own *before* GenCon even starts. So the
Week of Nightmares is 7+ days of V:TES pasted on top of another event
that is only 4 days long. Frankly, I'd be just giddy to ditch GenCon.
I think a roving event might be nice. I'll fly to Mexico City one
year, somewhere in Canada the next, then Boston or Atlanta or Las Vegas
or Seattle... yum!

> Yes, I see what you're getting at. If reducing the cost for participants
> is a priority, you're right: a better way to do that would be to hold the
> NAC at some other venue. In theory, they could even hold it alongside
> Gencon at another venue in Indianapolis over the same days. That way,
> people who want to go back and forth could still do that.

The smarties at GenCon are all over this. They go out of their way to
make sure people don't run events in Indy as a way of bypassing the
entrance fees.

-Robert

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Robert Goudie" <robertg@vtesinla.org> wrote in message
news:1120778708.792529.154770@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Frederick Scott wrote:
>> Yes, I see what you're getting at. If reducing the cost for participants
>> is a priority, you're right: a better way to do that would be to hold the
>> NAC at some other venue. In theory, they could even hold it alongside
>> Gencon at another venue in Indianapolis over the same days. That way,
>> people who want to go back and forth could still do that.
>
> The smarties at GenCon are all over this. They go out of their way to
> make sure people don't run events in Indy as a way of bypassing the
> entrance fees.

Hmmm. That's interesting. How do they propose to do that, if then entities
involved are completely independent of GenCon? I can see an approach to
regulating, say, a company like White Wolf if White Wolf wants to run a
booth and any activities at GenCon. But if some group that kept GenCon at
arm's length in their business dealings just ran some event in parallel with
GenCon, I don't see what GenCon could do about it.

Fred

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Frederick Scott wrote:
> "Robert Goudie" <robertg@vtesinla.org> wrote in message
> news:1120778708.792529.154770@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > Frederick Scott wrote:
> >> Yes, I see what you're getting at. If reducing the cost for participants
> >> is a priority, you're right: a better way to do that would be to hold the
> >> NAC at some other venue. In theory, they could even hold it alongside
> >> Gencon at another venue in Indianapolis over the same days. That way,
> >> people who want to go back and forth could still do that.
> >
> > The smarties at GenCon are all over this. They go out of their way to
> > make sure people don't run events in Indy as a way of bypassing the
> > entrance fees.
>
> Hmmm. That's interesting. How do they propose to do that, if then entities
> involved are completely independent of GenCon? I can see an approach to
> regulating, say, a company like White Wolf if White Wolf wants to run a
> booth and any activities at GenCon. But if some group that kept GenCon at
> arm's length in their business dealings just ran some event in parallel with
> GenCon, I don't see what GenCon could do about it.

For starters, no hotel in Indy is going to risk their relationship with
GenCon so they can cater exclusively to VtesCon that just happens to be
running the same weekend. So that places your event at the airport
hotels instead of downtown.

-Robert

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Johannes Walch wrote:
> Robert Goudie wrote:
> > For starters, no hotel in Indy is going to risk their relationship with
> > GenCon so they can cater exclusively to VtesCon that just happens to be
> > running the same weekend. So that places your event at the airport
> > hotels instead of downtown.
>
> Why stick to Indy (and GenCon) anyway? Indy is totally boring and in the
> middle of nowhere. I could imagine a bunch of better places all over the US.

I think (thought?) Fred was talking about running an event in Indy
without actually making people pay the GenCon admission. I could have
misunderstood, of course.

You are sooooo right. We can do much better than Indy. I think the EC
is a fine example of how a rotating event can work. Of course, the EC
could have instead been located centrally or located at Euro GenCon and
everyone be forced to travel every year but what could be more fair
than sharing the hosting privilege. I was daydreaming with a buddy
yesterday about someday hosting a NAC event in Los Angeles on the Queen
Mary or at a Hollywood landmark or Las Vegas. I'd also love to go to
Canada or Boston or Atlanta or New York.

I can understand WW wanting *exposure* for V:TES but GenCon V:TES
events would still exist at Indy even if the NAC were held elsewhere.
I mean, people go to Origins, right? I flew to GenCon event before the
NAC existed. Frankly, I think that if people are looking to try new
games, they'll demo in the dealer room. I doubt many people even
realize V:TES is in the CCG room let alone actually become interested
in the game by seeing it played at GenCon. And we aren't getting
casual V:TES players to just stop by for a game...the only people
playing V:TES at GenCon are hardcore V:TES players--especially now that
the V:TES events take up 3 of the 4 days at GenCon.

Let's stop paying GenCon for the privilege of using their tables!

-Robert

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Andreas Nusser wrote:
> I doubt that there has been ever a VTES demo game at GenCon at the WW booth!

Having been in one, I would disagree.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Andreas Nusser wrote:
> Robert Goudie schrieb:
> > You are sooooo right. We can do much better than Indy. I think the EC
> > is a fine example of how a rotating event can work. Of course, the EC
> > could have instead been located centrally or located at Euro GenCon
>
> Using the EURO GenCon would increase the entry fee again. Better be
> independent and rent cheap locations.

I agree. I brought it up because some people view Indy as a good
location because it is centrally located. But of course "Centrally
located" is just a fancy way of saying "always far away" or "always
close", depending on where you live.

> > I can understand WW wanting *exposure* for V:TES but GenCon V:TES
> > events would still exist at Indy even if the NAC were held elsewhere.
> > I mean, people go to Origins, right? I flew to GenCon event before the
> > NAC existed. Frankly, I think that if people are looking to try new
> > games, they'll demo in the dealer room. I doubt many people even
> > realize V:TES is in the CCG room let alone actually become interested
> > in the game by seeing it played at GenCon.
>
> I doubt that there has been ever a VTES demo game at GenCon at the WW booth!

I don't think I'd go that far. Oscar is currently getting
volunteers for demoing at GenCon. I'm just saying that aspect can
continue even if there's no NAC.

> > Let's stop paying GenCon for the privilege of using their tables!
>
> Yep! I am all for it.

Excellent! Okay, now we've got two of us on board with the plan.

-Robert

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Robert Goudie" <robertg@vtesinla.org> wrote in message
news:1120835986.710565.82520@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>> > Let's stop paying GenCon for the privilege of using their tables!
>>
>> Yep! I am all for it.
>
> Excellent! Okay, now we've got two of us on board with the plan.

Strategicon left a bad taste in your mouth? Los Angeles broke free of
the convention mode for tournaments after years and years. Now you're
trying to export the revolution? ;-)

Fred

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Frederick Scott wrote:
> "Andreas Nusser" <a.nusser@vekn.de> wrote in message
> news:dam423$p7k$1@news01.versatel.de...
> > I think it is better to do a benefit-cost analysis. IMO it is hardly worth the money to be present with VTES at GenCon.
>
> I'll put it this way: a *LOT* of game companies seem to disagree with
> the concept that it's not worth being present at GenCon. And if you're
> going to be present, why not put 80+ gamers on display playing your
> game on multiple days in front of the precisely right group of people
> you want seeing that? Demo, support, and advertise all you like, I
> just don't know HOW a game company is going to buy that kind of
> publicity by other methods.

I'm not sure about how all of this works together. Is the actual
tournament itself meant to attract new players? It would seem different
companies have different goals. For some, they make a big spectacle and
try to attract attention and gain interest in their games--the CCG room
becomes an extension of the dealer room! For others, the CCG room is
just where the game is played and the dealer room is where they try to
attract new players.

For me personally, I explore new games in the dealer room. The CCG room
is where people go to play whatever game they spent all that money
(entrance fee, plane tickets, etc.) to come play.

In any event, V:TES has never made much of their convention
appearances--even when we had those fancy 6ft tall standees. I doubt
anybody even knows we are playing V:TES in the CCG room. Other than
the listing in the book, V:TES gets little publicity by holding the NAC
event at GenCon. If WW doesn't want to sponsor the con itself and put
V:TES in a big spot by the door and hang 50 foot banners, give out demo
decks to all attendees and display the games on TV screens then we're
not really putting 80+ gamers on display anyway--we're just leasing the
tables.

If the players must spend money to use GenCon's venue so that WW can
get publicity for the game, I'd rather take up a collection and buy
some additional magazine advertisement. Hell, I'll bet we could get
a couple of pages writeup in a game magazine about a standalone V:TES
event held outside of GenCon. Whereas, at GenCon itself we're a small
fish in a big pond.

-Robert

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Frederick Scott wrote:
> Los Angeles broke free of
> the convention mode for tournaments after years and years. Now you're
> trying to export the revolution? ;-)

Well,

It seems to me (in my opinion) that the quality of Gencon has declined
in the last couple of years. Yes, Indianapolis is a better location
for travel and hotels. But I agree with some previous responses that
perhaps a rotating location might be better, especially with a
multi-day championship.

Of course this year I'm staying home, saving a week's worth of time and
approximately $1500 (and this doesn't count the time and money saved by
not having to attend a Qualifier). To get the same prize support as
the NAC finalists, I'm going to spend about one minute online and order
2 boxes of KMW for $130. Look, I made out better than if I had
attended the NAC at Gencon.

Perhaps WW should come up with some kind of incentive to make spending
a week's vacation time and $1500 more attractive-to encourage "local"
players to branch out and play in higher level events. Now here comes
the "play for the love of the game" responses.

Ben Spaulding

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Robert Goudie wrote:
> In any event, V:TES has never made much of their convention
> appearances--even when we had those fancy 6ft tall standees. I doubt
> anybody even knows we are playing V:TES in the CCG room. Other than
> the listing in the book, V:TES gets little publicity by holding the NAC
> event at GenCon.

You don't count the (local?) TV coverage at GenCon 2004?
They interviewed Steve Wieck during either the Championship or the last
chance qualifier last year.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

LSJ wrote:
> Robert Goudie wrote:
> > In any event, V:TES has never made much of their convention
> > appearances--even when we had those fancy 6ft tall standees. I doubt
> > anybody even knows we are playing V:TES in the CCG room. Other than
> > the listing in the book, V:TES gets little publicity by holding the NAC
> > event at GenCon.
>
> You don't count the (local?) TV coverage at GenCon 2004?
> They interviewed Steve Wieck during either the Championship or the last
> chance qualifier last year.

Yeah, I remember that. I think it was for the Game Show Network. I
looked for it on TV for a long time afterwards and never saw anything.

So no, I don't count that.

-Robert

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

James Coupe wrote:
[clip]

> A good solid show of tournaments and events (newbie tuition,
> competitions, promo giveaways etc.) can have a beneficial effect on
> keeping the game, especially if you can get a large number of players
> involved. (Where "large" is "bigger than any current non-Magic/Pokemon
> type game.)
>
> I mean, I might pick up a deck or two of a game if it looks interesting,
> but if I can play a newbie tuition thing now and join in a tournament
> this evening, I'm going to enjoy it more. And quite possibly buy more
> stuff.

That's probably a good way to go. Though, that sounds better suited to
a GenCon with more and smaller tournaments instead of a Last Chance
qualifier and two-day championship. People rarely play in a demo and
then commit 6+ hours to a tournament.

> Also, with a game like V:TES which has been around for ages, a good show
> of tournaments can make people think "Oh, that's still going. And it's
> not just 10 players in the championship. Coo. Maybe I'll dig out my
> cards..."

Certainly true.

> Of course, on top of that, you're aiming to get all the existing players
> enjoying things, buying new cards to compete with, or whatever.

Of course. That part is the same even if you rotate the event. I don't
see the European players suffering from the rotating format.

-Robert

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

The NosferatuStuff wrote:
> I'm sure this is some how the fault of the europeans! haha

Certainly not. The "European" proposal was a 2 day event, the 3 day
suggestion was made by US players. And we did our European Championship
separated from any type of convention. It costed 10EUR for the whole
weekend and we had nearly 200 players in total at the event. Most of
them had good fun AFAIK.

--
johannes walch

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Robert Goudie wrote:
> For starters, no hotel in Indy is going to risk their relationship with
> GenCon so they can cater exclusively to VtesCon that just happens to be
> running the same weekend. So that places your event at the airport
> hotels instead of downtown.

Why stick to Indy (and GenCon) anyway? Indy is totally boring and in the
middle of nowhere. I could imagine a bunch of better places all over the US.

--
johannes walch

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Johannes Walch" <johannes.walch@vekn.de> wrote in message
news:dalkjc$dcq$2@news01.versatel.de...
> Robert Goudie wrote:
>> For starters, no hotel in Indy is going to risk their relationship with
>> GenCon so they can cater exclusively to VtesCon that just happens to be
>> running the same weekend. So that places your event at the airport
>> hotels instead of downtown.
>
> Why stick to Indy (and GenCon) anyway? Indy is totally boring and in the middle of nowhere. I could imagine a bunch of better
> places all over the US.

Well, for Robert's purposes, just because that was the theorectical question
I was posing for him: "How can GenCon stop other entities from running
events in Indianapolis in parallel with GenCon?" It was kind of a side
question.

To play Devil's Advocate, the reason to hold a NAC in Indy over the GenCon
days is so players who WANT to can go back and forth between it and GenCon
and those who don't won't have to pay for a GenCon badge fee. In this
whole thread, I'm hearing a lot from gamers who's incentive it is to get
only VTES play for the plane-fare/car-rental/hotel-accomadations/badge-fee
money. There are a lot of VTES players who wouldn't mind dabbling in other
games and GenCon is a huge orgy of other games. It's why Fabio Macedo said
the South American Continental Championship was held so early this year:
because that was the weekend when the big South American game convention
was held. A lot of people like to do it all in one week.

That said, I personally don't think it's written in stone that the
Continental Championship has to be held that way. I'm just saying it has
its appeal.

Fred

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Wouldnt that be 3? cause I seems to remember starting the complaining
about this. (cause that's all i really do is come out of torpor to
complain about things that are screwing with my lovely game)

seriously the one side seems to be saying: "we need people taking up
space at con's" and the other side seems to be saying "we need to hold
our big tournaments someplace other then con's" Well it seems to be
that those 2 things are not mutually exclusive. just because we save
our big tournaments for our own VTES:Con doesnt mean no one would show
up and play at gencon ever. Think about it this way, we are already
packing full time tournaments into the con's. Origins was running 5
thursday nights, 2 on friday, 2 saturday, and another 1 sunday. when
does the VTES population have a chance to get out and do any demoing?
word of mouth advertising? i'd seriously venture to say that no one
that plays vtes has time to pick up on interest people show by checking
out the cards for the games because of how long we are trapped in
tournaments.

new guy: "hey this game looks fun. i just checked out the white wolf
booth and got a couple precon's"
any VTES player: "sweet, this game rocks and you will love it. its got
everything that the other CCG's are missing"
new guy: "alright, well do you want to play or can you help me tweek my
deck"
any VTES player: "sure, just stick around till after this tournament
and we'll all help you, we're already half done!"
new guy: "awesome, half done huh, so you should be done and ready to
help me soon?"
any VTES player: "yeah half done, so there is only more hours to wait!"
new guy: "uhhh, i'll stop back later then..." <---famous last words
from a person who will never show up again

i really think the best way to solve the VTES problem is to change the
way tournaments run at the big conventions. there should be small
every other hour tournaments, 1 round each. make it more of a parallel
to the magic arena style where you may play in five different 1 round
events over the weekend, 1 of which may have been sealed, 2 constructed
and 2 draft...and then tally the results at the end for a final final
or a couple of finals. give diversity to the events. give breaks to
people so that we, the VTES people can actually leave the fuzzy green
tables and go experience the rest of the con and not miss out on
playing for the next 4-6 hours. let new players get in for a short
time commitment, with the ability to try new decks or tweek their
existing ones.

-Stuff

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"The NosferatuStuff" <roansteele@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1120851148.631443.144750@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> seriously the one side seems to be saying: "we need people taking up
> space at con's" and the other side seems to be saying "we need to hold
> our big tournaments someplace other then con's" Well it seems to be
> that those 2 things are not mutually exclusive. just because we save
> our big tournaments for our own VTES:Con doesnt mean no one would show
> up and play at gencon ever.

No, but I think you're missing the point. The attraction of an NAC is
much higher than just some random VtES tournaments. Though admittedly,
it sounds like the way Kevin did up Origins has a separate form of appeal.
But it's not the same thing as attending a "big, important" tournament.
So the point is EXACTLY having the big championship tournament in the
same place as the all-games orgy. So people can enjoy both in a single
trip.

> Think about it this way, we are already
> packing full time tournaments into the con's.

When I did WoN, I actually liked that schedule. Night and day VtES
for the few days leading up to GenCon, then official tournaments during
the day mixed in with roaming the dealer room and other types of games
during the evening. Late at night, more VtES back in the hotel and then
sleep was gotten....I forget...when did I get any sleep? Whatever.
The point is, you can only get that mix at GenCon.

> i'd seriously venture to say that no one
> that plays vtes has time to pick up on interest people show by checking
> out the cards for the games because of how long we are trapped in
> tournaments.

But, again, you're missing the point. Just getting someone's attention
with large tournaments going on the floor is the point. I don't think
it's necessary to understand the exact process through which each
individual new player gets hooked. Many may not do anything about it
at GenCon at all but the game will register when they see it played back
in their home city. Or they may wander by the WW booth and see it later.
Who knows? The point is that you've made an impression by showing them
a zillion people playing it at one place at one time.

> i really think the best way to solve the VTES problem is to change the
> way tournaments run at the big conventions.

I guess to me, it's conjectural that there even is a "VTES problem". No
one way of doing things is optimal. The Origins model has its appeal and,
to me, the GenCon model also has its appeal. I'm sure Robert or someone
else could come up with a pretty nice setup for the CC run away from any
conventions, too. But I'd miss the opportunity to do GenCon in its
current form.

Fred

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Robert Goudie schrieb:
> You are sooooo right. We can do much better than Indy. I think the EC
> is a fine example of how a rotating event can work. Of course, the EC
> could have instead been located centrally or located at Euro GenCon

Using the EURO GenCon would increase the entry fee again. Better be
independent and rent cheap locations.

> I can understand WW wanting *exposure* for V:TES but GenCon V:TES
> events would still exist at Indy even if the NAC were held elsewhere.
> I mean, people go to Origins, right? I flew to GenCon event before the
> NAC existed. Frankly, I think that if people are looking to try new
> games, they'll demo in the dealer room. I doubt many people even
> realize V:TES is in the CCG room let alone actually become interested
> in the game by seeing it played at GenCon.

I doubt that there has been ever a VTES demo game at GenCon at the WW booth!

I think it is better to do a benefit-cost analysis. IMO it is hardly
worth the money to be present with VTES at GenCon. Use the money to demo
the game at 2-3 tables, do a small tournament and save the rest of the
money to support stores and princes.

And btw: Let the NAC be organized by princes organizes and have the NAC
move around! Indy gets boring after the second or third year!

> And we aren't getting
> casual V:TES players to just stop by for a game...the only people
> playing V:TES at GenCon are hardcore V:TES players--especially now that
> the V:TES events take up 3 of the 4 days at GenCon.
>
> Let's stop paying GenCon for the privilege of using their tables!

Yep! I am all for it.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Andreas Nusser" <a.nusser@vekn.de> wrote in message
news:dam423$p7k$1@news01.versatel.de...
> I think it is better to do a benefit-cost analysis. IMO it is hardly worth the money to be present with VTES at GenCon.

I'll put it this way: a *LOT* of game companies seem to disagree with
the concept that it's not worth being present at GenCon. And if you're
going to be present, why not put 80+ gamers on display playing your
game on multiple days in front of the precisely right group of people
you want seeing that? Demo, support, and advertise all you like, I
just don't know HOW a game company is going to buy that kind of
publicity by other methods.

Fred

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

In message <1120839798.809267.112470@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Robert Goudie <robertg@vtesinla.org> writes:
>Exactly. Hey, if the Olympics can rotate, then so can the NAC.

Paris or London for the NAC, then?

--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

In message <1120839087.705591.9040@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, Robert
Goudie <robertg@vtesinla.org> writes:
>I'm not sure about how all of this works together. Is the actual
>tournament itself meant to attract new players? It would seem different
>companies have different goals. For some, they make a big spectacle and
>try to attract attention and gain interest in their games--the CCG room
>becomes an extension of the dealer room! For others, the CCG room is
>just where the game is played and the dealer room is where they try to
>attract new players.

It's not necessarily about spectacle, or about turning the CCG room into
the dealer room.

A good solid show of tournaments and events (newbie tuition,
competitions, promo giveaways etc.) can have a beneficial effect on
keeping the game, especially if you can get a large number of players
involved. (Where "large" is "bigger than any current non-Magic/Pokemon
type game.)

I mean, I might pick up a deck or two of a game if it looks interesting,
but if I can play a newbie tuition thing now and join in a tournament
this evening, I'm going to enjoy it more. And quite possibly buy more
stuff.

Also, with a game like V:TES which has been around for ages, a good show
of tournaments can make people think "Oh, that's still going. And it's
not just 10 players in the championship. Coo. Maybe I'll dig out my
cards..."


Of course, on top of that, you're aiming to get all the existing players
enjoying things, buying new cards to compete with, or whatever.

--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.