I believe that Form of Mist needs an errata (LSJ)

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>From my point of view the text of the sup. Form of Mist should be as
follows.

Strike: combat ends, and if this vampire is the acting minion, once
during each action he may burn 1 blood after combat ends to continue
the action at +1 stealth as if unblocked.

why the change? because I believe that there must be a clarification
between the "combat end" part and the "action modifier" part.

why? because as a combat card (S:CE) form of mist superior should be
able to be played as many times as necesary during a combat, BUT the
action modifier part is what must be played only once per action.

because I find stupid that things like that you cannot play FoM at
superior if you don't need the stealth, or that FoM sup can be played
once per action. Have you ever have readed the text of the card "if
this vampire is acting, he MAY burn 1 blood" it's not mandatory.

It's the modifier wich needs restriction, not the Strke: combat ends.
And based on card text doing a strike: combat ends with sup. FoM does
not implicate that you must burn 1 blood to continue the action, it
gives you the ALTERNATIVE of doing it or not, depending of what suits
you better in a given combat.

I expect you can find correct my point, because I believe there's a
need for such clarification
 
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I'm not talking about wakness, but proper usage of the rules, sup FoM
is a combat card with an OPTIONAL use as a modifier, so it should be
able to be used as combat end more tan once per action as any other
combat card, I do not see the point in doing such a discrimination
 
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I'm not talking about weakness, but proper usage of the rules, sup FoM
is a combat card with an OPTIONAL use as a modifier, so it should be
able to be used as combat end more tan once per action as any other
combat card, I do not see the point in doing such a discrimination
 
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ThE OnLy VipeR wrote:
> I'm not talking about weakness, but proper usage of the rules, sup FoM
> is a combat card with an OPTIONAL use as a modifier, so it should be
> able to be used as combat end more tan once per action as any other
> combat card, I do not see the point in doing such a discrimination

Form of Mist is never an action modifier.

http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=Cardlist_F#Form_of_Mist


- Ben Peal
 
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ThE OnLy VipeR wrote:
>>From my point of view the text of the sup. Form of Mist should be as
> follows.
>
> Strike: combat ends, and if this vampire is the acting minion, once
> during each action he may burn 1 blood after combat ends to continue
> the action at +1 stealth as if unblocked.
>
> why the change? because I believe that there must be a clarification
> between the "combat end" part and the "action modifier" part.
>
> why? because as a combat card (S:CE) form of mist superior should be
> able to be played as many times as necesary during a combat, BUT the
> action modifier part is what must be played only once per action.

I do not believe Form of Mist is too weak as it is, and even if
so, it wouldn't rise to the level of needing errata.

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ThE OnLy VipeR wrote:
> I'm not talking about weakness, but proper usage of the rules, sup FoM
> is a combat card with an OPTIONAL use as a modifier, so it should be
> able to be used as combat end more than once per action as any other
> combat card, I do not see the point in doing such a discrimination
FoM superior could be used during an action more than one time, if you
didn't choose to pay one blood to continue the action at +1 stealth.
The "you may..." is the part you can do only one time per action.
Please read the card and the text correctly, tehre is no need of
errata, according to your question, because the card already does what
you want.
Bye.
Kamel.
 
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kamel.senni@yvelines.pref.gouv.fr wrote:
> FoM superior could be used during an action more than one time, if you
> didn't choose to pay one blood to continue the action at +1 stealth.
> The "you may..." is the part you can do only one time per action.

No. Card text: "A vampire may play only one Form of Mist at superior
each action."

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Mea culpa.
I have read the text "that should be" according to 'Vyper as the text
"that is".
Thanks, LJS for the correction, I will make atonement all night long.
BTW, Vyper, FoM is sufficiently powerful to let that text like this :
if not, why continue to play Earth meld ?
And remember becoming of Ennoïa, who have condemns Earth meld to stay
at home (it's a joke).

Kamel.
 
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as LSJ points out, that's exactly the part of the text that needs to be
changed, because it is being tied to the burn 1 blood effect wich
occurs AFTER combat ends. that's why there must be a distinction
between the S:CE and the burn 1 blood effect.

I tell you it's a Hell that besides being able to use it only once
during MY actions, the same applies when OTHER is acting and I am
reacting!!. So please let's get serious here, there's a problem with
the card text that needs to be fixed, at least that LSJ says that the
"once per action" part was intentionally added to the S:CE part of sup.
FoM, and is not a bad redacted card text.

So LSJ, please think about what I'm saying, if you did all porpousely,
it's ok i'll accept that but, if there's an error please fix it for the
sake of the good playing and understanding.

Thank you.
 
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.... Seriously there's the need of distinction between FoM and Earth
meld.
With your proposal, FoM is a combat ends perfect again psyché ! and
you don't need another things (for example rapid change and EM).
FoM needs a little default (gain psyché! and telepathic tracking), or
it will be too powerful.
Sorry to have made a joke, I will slash my back, I just have to buy a
new whip.
Bye.
Kamel.
 
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ThE OnLy VipeR wrote:
> as LSJ points out, that's exactly the part of the text that needs to be
> changed, because it is being tied to the burn 1 blood effect wich

Remember to quote context if you want to refer to something in that
context.

> occurs AFTER combat ends. that's why there must be a distinction
> between the S:CE and the burn 1 blood effect.
>
> I tell you it's a Hell that besides being able to use it only once
> during MY actions, the same applies when OTHER is acting and I am
> reacting!!. So please let's get serious here, there's a problem with
> the card text that needs to be fixed, at least that LSJ says that the
> "once per action" part was intentionally added to the S:CE part of sup.
> FoM, and is not a bad redacted card text.
>
> So LSJ, please think about what I'm saying, if you did all porpousely,
> it's ok i'll accept that but, if there's an error please fix it for the
> sake of the good playing and understanding.

The change was several years in the making. It's about as purposeful as
it gets. It is not an error. It functions now exactly as it (the most
recent card text) intended.
 
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Sorry, the part that LSJ was pointing was the "only one sup. FoM can be
played each action" and is what i believe that is wrong.

correct me if I'm wrong but if I remember well, sup. FoM is the ONLY
combat card that can be played only once during an action
 
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my problem with the card text is that it's been given a different trait
with respect to the rest of the combat cards
 
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ThE OnLy VipeR wrote:
> Sorry, the part that LSJ was pointing was the "only one sup. FoM can be
> played each action" and is what i believe that is wrong.
>
> correct me if I'm wrong but if I remember well, sup. FoM is the ONLY
> combat card that can be played only once during an action

Reality Mirror.

and barring DI, Mummify.

;)

oscar
 
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ok, i surrender, there's no point in keep trying without support.
however, thank you for your patience
at least I showed my point and that satisfies me
 
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OrgPlay wrote:
> ThE OnLy VipeR wrote:
> > Sorry, the part that LSJ was pointing was the "only one sup. FoM can be
> > played each action" and is what i believe that is wrong.
> >
> > correct me if I'm wrong but if I remember well, sup. FoM is the ONLY
> > combat card that can be played only once during an action
>
> Reality Mirror.
>
> and barring DI, Mummify.

Ashes to Ashes
Amaranth
Pulled Fangs

May be more too...

Other funky "once per" cards...

Ancient Influence
Political Stranglehold
Flaming Candle
Festivo dello Estinto
....and on and on....

Point is, card text *intentionally* breaks the rules. That's kind of
the point. :)
 
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In message <1123079906.991290.270240@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, ThE
OnLy VipeR <finalboss@hotmail.com> writes:
>as LSJ points out, that's exactly the part of the text that needs to be
>changed,

What's exactly the part of the text?

Unless you quote the relevant sections of the post to which you are
responding - which can be done easily with Google - it is hard to tell
"exactly" what you're talking about.

>So LSJ, please think about what I'm saying, if you did all porpousely,
>it's ok i'll accept that but, if there's an error please fix it for the
>sake of the good playing and understanding.

What needs fixing for understanding?

The card says that it can only be played once per action at superior.
That's pretty understandable.

Many, many cards could be upgraded for "good playing". Why single out
Form of Mist? Why not pick Eyes of the Dead? Or Mummify?

Then realise just how many cards would need to be errata-ed if this was
the case. *Lots* of cards could be better.

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13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
 
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"ThE OnLy VipeR" <finalboss@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123099387.644537.260350@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> ok, i surrender, there's no point in keep trying without support.
> however, thank you for your patience
> at least I showed my point and that satisfies me
>


....To qoute text using Google Groups, click the "Show Options" link at the
top of the message you wish to reply to, then click the "Reply" link in the
dropdown menu that results. You'll get quoted text just like you would if
you used a standard newsreader (and the rest of us will be able to
understand what you're posting about)...

Regards,
R. David Zopf
Atom Weaver
 
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In message <1123097368.974429.63750@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, ThE
OnLy VipeR <finalboss@hotmail.com> writes:
>my problem with the card text is that it's been given a different trait
>with respect to the rest of the combat cards

Why's that a problem? Lots of cards have "different" traits from the
rest of other cards.

For instance, a search on "Combat card" and "Costs pool" only turns up
"Caseless Rounds". Should we change that, too?

Harzomatuili is the only ally that requires a title. And for that
matter, Shambling Hordes and Puppeteer are the only ones that require a
discipline. And Alia is the only one that requires Gehenna cards.
And...


Why is a card having its own unusual quirk something that necessitates
errata? Lots of cards have unusual quirks.

--
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PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
 
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In message <1123098253.921380.57100@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
OrgPlay <orgplay@white-wolf.com> writes:
>ThE OnLy VipeR wrote:
>> correct me if I'm wrong but if I remember well, sup. FoM is the ONLY
>> combat card that can be played only once during an action
>
>Reality Mirror.
>
>and barring DI, Mummify.

Not true regarding Mummify. You could interrupt the S:CE with something
sufficiently disruptive - such as a Psyche! - and ONLY get the Combat
Ends effect. (There are other even more bizarre corner cases, if you
want to go down that route, such as your opponent attempting aggravated
damage, a Rotschreck being played, then a Psyche! or whatever.)

This time next year, all the cool kids will be playing
Mummify / Telepathic Tracking decks, mark my words.

--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
 
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jeffkuta@pacbell.net wrote:
> OrgPlay wrote:
>>ThE OnLy VipeR wrote:
>>>correct me if I'm wrong but if I remember well, sup. FoM is the ONLY
>>>combat card that can be played only once during an action
>>
>>Reality Mirror.
>>
>>and barring DI, Mummify.
>
> Ashes to Ashes

Undead Persistence allows more than one to be played.

> Amaranth

Can be played more than once if you torporize the second
guy coming in (say, with Fast Reaction).

> Pulled Fangs

Can be played more than once (Fast Reaction).

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jeffkuta@pacbell.net wrote:
> OrgPlay wrote:
> > ThE OnLy VipeR wrote:
> > > Sorry, the part that LSJ was pointing was the "only one sup. FoM can be
> > > played each action" and is what i believe that is wrong.
> > >
> > > correct me if I'm wrong but if I remember well, sup. FoM is the ONLY
> > > combat card that can be played only once during an action
> >
> > Reality Mirror.
> >
> > and barring DI, Mummify.
>
> Ashes to Ashes
> Amaranth
> Pulled Fangs
> May be more too...
> Other funky "once per" cards...
> Ancient Influence
> Political Stranglehold
> Flaming Candle
> Festivo dello Estinto
> ...and on and on....
> Point is, card text *intentionally* breaks the rules. That's kind of
> the point. :)

And on top of all that, and based on this line of thought, Form of Mist
is the only combat card that provides "action continuing" without any
restriction on each type of action you're allowed to carry on (see
Mirror Image, Shadow Body, Toreador's Bane at [mel]) and can be played
on any normal combat regardless of clan or opponent's capacity
(Toreador's Bane at [MEL] still needs a Toreador or younger vampire).

So should we add a "only non-bleed, non-political actions" or whatever
to its text at superior? Or even a "only usable against a younger
vampire" clause instead?

If it were to be errata'ed for something (though I believe it needs
not), certainly it wouldn't be the "once per action" part.

best,
 
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jeffkuta@pacbell.net wrote:
> OrgPlay wrote:
> > ThE OnLy VipeR wrote:
> > > Sorry, the part that LSJ was pointing was the "only one sup. FoM can be
> > > played each action" and is what i believe that is wrong.
> > >
> > > correct me if I'm wrong but if I remember well, sup. FoM is the ONLY
> > > combat card that can be played only once during an action
> >
> > Reality Mirror.
> >
> > and barring DI, Mummify.
>
> Ashes to Ashes
> Amaranth
> Pulled Fangs
> May be more too...
> Other funky "once per" cards...
> Ancient Influence
> Political Stranglehold
> Flaming Candle
> Festivo dello Estinto
> ...and on and on....
> Point is, card text *intentionally* breaks the rules. That's kind of
> the point. :)

And on top of all that, and based on this line of thought, Form of Mist
is the only combat card that provides "action continuing" without any
restriction on each type of action you're allowed to carry on (see
Mirror Image, Shadow Body, Toreador's Bane at [mel]) and can be played
on any normal combat regardless of clan or opponent's capacity
(Toreador's Bane at [MEL] still needs a Toreador or younger vampire).

So should we add a "only non-bleed, non-political actions" or whatever
to its text at superior? Or even a "only usable against a younger
vampire" clause instead?

If it were to be errata'ed for something (though I believe it needs
not), certainly it wouldn't be the "once per action" part.

best,
 
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Synesios wrote:
> And on top of all that, and based on this line of thought, Form of Mist
> is the only combat card that provides "action continuing" without any
> restriction on each type of action you're allowed to carry on (see
> Mirror Image, Shadow Body, Toreador's Bane at [mel]) and can be played
> on any normal combat regardless of clan or opponent's capacity
> (Toreador's Bane at [MEL] still needs a Toreador or younger vampire).
>
> So should we add a "only non-bleed, non-political actions" or whatever
> to its text at superior? Or even a "only usable against a younger
> vampire" clause instead?
>
> If it were to be errata'ed for something (though I believe it needs
> not), certainly it wouldn't be the "once per action" part.


Flow Within the Mountain also has no such restrictions.

However, Form of Mist is the only one that continues the action and
adds stealth on top of that. It is easily more useful than all of the
other action-continues cards.

Form of Mist is definitely amongst the strongest cards in the game, so
I have no idea why someone would be complaining how weak it is.
Considering how vicious DOM/PRO bleed is, I wouldn't mind removing the
"once per action" clause and inserting a "non-bleed action" clause
instead! ;)

- Eric Chiang
 
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James Coupe wrote:
> In message <1123098253.921380.57100@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> Not true regarding Mummify. You could interrupt the S:CE with something
> sufficiently disruptive - such as a Psyche! - and ONLY get the Combat
> Ends effect. (There are other even more bizarre corner cases, if you
> want to go down that route, such as your opponent attempting aggravated
> damage, a Rotschreck being played, then a Psyche! or whatever.)
>
> This time next year, all the cool kids will be playing
> Mummify / Telepathic Tracking decks, mark my words.


Alternatively, think about fighting Watenda. You play Mummify, he
cancels it, and you play it again.

With that in mind, I do think that Form of Mist (sup) and Reality
Mirror are the only combat cards that you can only play once during a
given action.