Possible rules conflict (LSJ)

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Sten During wrote:
> Just noticed the first of the paragraphs in the
> V:TES Official Clarifications, Rulings and Errata.
>
> I don't think there's a problem, but for me wording
> is not entirely clear.
>
> Echo of Harmonies at superior. Is "at the end of the
> action" after the action is "completely resolved"?
> If not, Echo of Harmonies at superior would always
> be illegal to play.
>
> Sten During


Sten During wrote:
> Just noticed the first of the paragraphs in the
> V:TES Official Clarifications, Rulings and Errata.
>
> I don't think there's a problem, but for me wording
> is not entirely clear.
>
> Echo of Harmonies at superior. Is "at the end of the
> action" after the action is "completely resolved"?
> If not, Echo of Harmonies at superior would always
> be illegal to play.
>
> Sten During

<card text>
Echo of Harmonies, Action Modifier, 1 blood, Melpominee/Presence, R2 ,
[Bloodlines:R2]
Only usable during a referendum. [pre] If you burn the Edge for a vote,
this vampire gains two additional votes. [mel] Usable by a ready
vampire other than the acting minion. This vampire gains two votes.
[MEL] Usable by a ready vampire other than the acting minion. Move the
political action card used to call the referendum from your ash heap to
this vampire at the end of the action. This vampire may burn that card
to call the referendum as a +1 stealth political action if he or she
meets the requirements of that card.
</card text>

The card is an action modifier. So the playing vampire must play it
during the action. Nominally during the action attempt, but there is no
text that requires it to be done then. It could be done during the
referendum vote tally (you successfully KRC and you want to do it again
because you drew up another vote push).

The next bit states that it is moved to the modifying vampire at the
end of the action. An action ends when all combat, and all resolutions,
are over.

So how could this form an illegal play?

D

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

LSJ wrote:
> Sten During wrote:
>
>> Just noticed the first of the paragraphs in the
>> V:TES Official Clarifications, Rulings and Errata.
>>
>> I don't think there's a problem, but for me wording
>> is not entirely clear.
>>
>> Echo of Harmonies at superior. Is "at the end of the
>> action" after the action is "completely resolved"?
>> If not, Echo of Harmonies at superior would always
>> be illegal to play.
>
>
> It is legal to play.
>
> You'll have to fill in the gaps above if you want more --
> I can't figure out what the issue is that's giving you
> difficulty.
>

The gap, rather than gaps, would be the possibility that
the political card would still be in "limbo". As I wrote,
I really don't see a problem. Was more checking for the
possibility of an unlikely one

Sten During

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

quetzalcoatl wrote:
> The only "situation" I can think of is if someone plays Delaying
> Tactics.
>
> You call the vote, you play some modifiers (including Echo of
> Harmonies). They play delaying tactics.
>
> It forces you to return the card to your hand HOWEVER Echo lets you put
> it on the modifying vampire.
>
> Okay now THAT is something for LSJ

Echo text: "Move the political action card used to call the referendum from
your ash heap to this vampire at the end of the action."

DT: "The referendum is canceled. Untap the acting vampire. The political
action card (if any) played to call this referendum is returned to its owner's
hand (discard afterward)"

DT is played. The referendum is canceled (and Echo makes a grab for the
PA card). Then DT moves the PA card to your hand. Echo loses out.

--
LSJ (vtesrepSPAM@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (remove spam trap to reply)
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