TWD - Dragon's Breath - DragonCon 2005

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Dragon's Breath
DragonCon 2005
Atlanta, Georgia
September 3rd, 2005
18 players
3R + F

Deck Name: Sewer Party
Created By: Robyn Tatu
Description:

Crypt: (14 cards, Min: 10, Max: 28, Avg: 4.64)
----------------------------------------------
1 Tusk ani OBF pot 6, Nosferatu:1
1 KoKo pot 2, Nosferatu:1
1 Sammy ani obf pot 4, Nosferatu:1
1 Duck obf pot 3, Nosferatu:1
1 Tiberius ani cel obf pot 5, Nosferatu:1
1 Nikolaus Vermeulen ani for obf POT 7, Nosferatu:2, Prince
1 Laurent de Valois ani dom obf 4, Nosferatu:2
1 Calebros ANI obf pot 5, Nosferatu:2, Prince
1 Dimple obf 2, Nosferatu:1
1 Agrippina OBF pot 4, Nosferatu:1
1 Murat OBF POT ser 7, Nosferatu:2, Prince
1 Selma the Repugnant ani for OBF POT 8, Nosferatu:1, Prince
1 Regilio aus obf 3, Nosferatu:2
1 Grendel the Worm-Eaten ani OBF pot 5, Nosferatu:1

Library: (90 cards)
-------------------
Master (16 cards)
1 Anachronism
1 Archon Investigation
6 Blood Doll
1 Fear of Mekhet
2 Life in the City
1 Retribution
1 Slum Hunting Ground
2 Sudden Reversal
1 Tribute to the Master

Action (14 cards)
5 Computer Hacking
1 Judgment: Camarilla Segregation
3 Kindred Intelligence
1 Night Moves
1 Nosferatu Performance Art
3 Patagia: Flaps Allowing Limited Flight

Action Modifier (22 cards)
4 Cloak the Gathering
4 Elder Impersonation
4 Faceless Night
3 Forgotten Labyrinth
4 Lost in Crowds
1 Marked Path
2 Spying Mission

Political Action (13 cards)
7 Consanguineous Boon
1 Disputed Territory
1 Nosferatu Justicar
1 Praxis Seizure: Atlanta
1 Praxis Seizure: Frankfurt
1 Praxis Seizure: Houston
1 Praxis Seizure: London

Reaction (9 cards)
2 Confusion of the Eye
1 Poison Pill
3 Second Tradition: Domain, The
3 Wake with Evening's Freshness

Ally (2 cards)
2 Procurer

Equipment (11 cards)
2 Blood Tears of Kephran
1 Blow Torch
1 Deer Rifle
1 Flak Jacket
1 Flaming Candle
1 Gas-Powered Chainsaw
1 Laptop Computer
2 Leather Jacket
1 Palatial Estate

Combo (3 cards)
3 Swallowed by the Night

This deck was last saved at 11:06:19 AM on 9/5/05
24 answers Last reply
More about dragon breath dragoncon 2005
  1. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    ..

    Rock on, Robyn! And keep rocking on!


    - Ben Peal
  2. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    The Lasombra wrote:

    > Deck Name: Sewer Party
    > Created By: Robyn Tatu
    > Description:

    Dude! Is this the deck that I won a tournament by sitting in front of,
    specifically because I knew I couldn't be Nosferatu Performance Arted?

    Awsome!


    Peter D Bakija
    pdb6@lightlink.com
    http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

    "So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
    easily spilled liquids to naked people."
    -Brittni Meil
  3. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Hey Robyn,

    Cool deck! Did you consider using Pier 13? Just curious. Obviously
    it worked well enough without it!

    I'd love to hear a tournament report if anyone cared to write one up.

    Ira
  4. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    "Peter D Bakija" <pdb6@lightlink.com> wrote in message
    news:BF4234D5.21C83%pdb6@lightlink.com...
    > The Lasombra wrote:
    >
    >> Deck Name: Sewer Party
    >> Created By: Robyn Tatu
    >> Description:
    >
    > Dude! Is this the deck that I won a tournament by sitting in front of,
    > specifically because I knew I couldn't be Nosferatu Performance Arted?
    >
    > Awsome!

    OK, somebody explain to me how this deck wins. Just by titles, bloating,
    and stealth bleeds for one? (Except for the computer hack actions,
    obvously.)

    Fred
  5. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Frederick Scott wrote:
    > "Peter D Bakija" <pdb6@lightlink.com> wrote in message
    > news:BF4234D5.21C83%pdb6@lightlink.com...
    > > The Lasombra wrote:
    > >
    > >> Deck Name: Sewer Party
    > >> Created By: Robyn Tatu
    > >> Description:
    > >
    > > Dude! Is this the deck that I won a tournament by sitting in front of,
    > > specifically because I knew I couldn't be Nosferatu Performance Arted?
    > >
    > > Awsome!
    >
    > OK, somebody explain to me how this deck wins. Just by titles, bloating,
    > and stealth bleeds for one? (Except for the computer hack actions,
    > obvously.)
    >
    > Fred

    One word:

    Attrition

    Jeff

    P.S. Ya forgot the Laptop Computer. ;)
  6. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Frederick Scott wrote:

    > OK, somebody explain to me how this deck wins. Just by titles, bloating,
    > and stealth bleeds for one? (Except for the computer hack actions,
    > obvously.)

    Bloating, stealthy bleeds for one, some guns, and clever table play.

    Like, yeah, it doesn't look that killer, but it got into the finals of the
    3R+F 30 person tournament at Origins, and won at Dragon Con. It clearly is
    doing something right.

    And getting to, like, torp and diablerize your prey's Alexandria through
    Performance Art never hurts either...


    Peter D Bakija
    pdb6@lightlink.com
    http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

    "So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
    easily spilled liquids to naked people."
    -Brittni Meil
  7. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    On Wed, 7 Sep 2005, Frederick Scott wrote:

    > change. Just look innocuous and hold enough bleed in your hand to make
    > a surprise oust, I guess. (And stay in the game until that point.)

    The lazy path is strong. Why do you think weenie dom bleed runs out of
    steam after it's first prey and often can't take a table. It's really
    hard to put 120 points of bleed in a deck.

    Matt Morgan
  8. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Frederick Scott wrote:
    > "Peter D Bakija" <pdb6@lightlink.com> wrote in message
    > news:BF4234D5.21C83%pdb6@lightlink.com...
    >
    >>The Lasombra wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Deck Name: Sewer Party
    >>>Created By: Robyn Tatu
    >>>Description:
    >>
    >>Dude! Is this the deck that I won a tournament by sitting in front of,
    >>specifically because I knew I couldn't be Nosferatu Performance Arted?
    >>
    >>Awsome!
    >
    >
    > OK, somebody explain to me how this deck wins. Just by titles, bloating,
    > and stealth bleeds for one? (Except for the computer hack actions,
    > obvously.)

    It wins by not being ultra-agressive and therefore not being the table
    threat. Clever play along with steady pressure does the job most of the
    time. Better let others do the dirty work (e.g on a 5 player table, let
    the other four players clinch in two 2 player duels) and then just clear
    the leftovers.

    --
    johannes walch
  9. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    "Johannes Walch" <johannes.walch@vekn.de> wrote in message
    news:dflvva$2ub$1@news01.versatel.de...
    > Frederick Scott wrote:
    >> "Peter D Bakija" <pdb6@lightlink.com> wrote in message
    >> news:BF4234D5.21C83%pdb6@lightlink.com...
    >>>The Lasombra wrote:
    >>>>Deck Name: Sewer Party
    >>>>Created By: Robyn Tatu
    >>>>Description:
    >>>
    >>>Dude! Is this the deck that I won a tournament by sitting in front of,
    >>>specifically because I knew I couldn't be Nosferatu Performance Arted?
    >>>
    >>>Awsome!
    >>
    >> OK, somebody explain to me how this deck wins. Just by titles, bloating,
    >> and stealth bleeds for one? (Except for the computer hack actions,
    >> obvously.)
    >
    > It wins by not being ultra-agressive and therefore not being the table threat. Clever play along with steady pressure does the job
    > most of the time. Better let others do the dirty work (e.g on a 5 player table, let the other four players clinch in two 2 player
    > duels) and then just clear the leftovers.

    Well, at least I wasn't missing anything obvious. It must be the opposite
    of the disadvantage of looking overtly powerful - like when you start
    producing two Embraces a turn or something. Or put down a Parthenon
    followed by three Anarch Revolts in exactly two turns, back before the
    change. Just look innocuous and hold enough bleed in your hand to make
    a surprise oust, I guess. (And stay in the game until that point.)

    Fred
  10. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Frederick Scott <nospam@no.spam.dot.com> wrote:
    > "Peter D Bakija" <pdb6@lightlink.com> wrote:
    >> The Lasombra wrote:
    >>
    >>> Deck Name: Sewer Party
    >>> Created By: Robyn Tatu
    >>> Description:
    >>
    >> Dude! Is this the deck that I won a tournament by sitting in front
    >> of, specifically because I knew I couldn't be Nosferatu Performance
    >> Arted?
    >>
    >> Awsome!
    >
    > OK, somebody explain to me how this deck wins. Just by titles,
    > bloating, and stealth bleeds for one? (Except for the computer hack
    > actions, obvously.)

    The deck wins because Robyn is playing it. Her skill as a player is
    outstanding. She is the Annie Duke of VTES, and she will kick your ass.
    She should quit and start playing tournament Poker for a living, but she'd
    probably go up to 3 packs a day. ;) Seriously. She is that good.

    > Fred

    Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
    "Know your enemy, and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
    you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
    "Contentment... Complacency... Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
  11. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    "Kevin M." <youwish@imaspammer.org> wrote in message
    news:1lJTe.192115$E95.37731@fed1read01...
    > Frederick Scott <nospam@no.spam.dot.com> wrote:
    >> OK, somebody explain to me how this deck wins. Just by titles,
    >> bloating, and stealth bleeds for one? (Except for the computer hack
    >> actions, obvously.)
    >
    > The deck wins because Robyn is playing it. Her skill as a player is
    > outstanding. She is the Annie Duke of VTES, and she will kick your ass.

    Well, sure. Sadly, though, that's not really saying much.

    But now who is Annie Duke?

    Fred, the Terry Felton of VTES

    (look up baseball records, Minnesota Twins, 1979-1982, if you're curious)
  12. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Frederick Scott wrote:

    > But now who is Annie Duke?

    The best female pro poker player in the US or world or something. Pretty
    much. Kind of a minor celebrity these days due to endless poker on TV, and
    the TV shows liking to, like, focus on her as being a "woman in a man's
    game" or whatever.


    Peter D Bakija
    pdb6@lightlink.com
    http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

    "So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
    easily spilled liquids to naked people."
    -Brittni Meil
  13. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Fred -

    It won the finals by unusual circumstance. This isn't to say that
    Robin is anything other than an world-class player - we all know she
    is. But she had no predator through most of the game (I know, because
    it was me). I (#2 seed) sat behind Robin, playing McNeil and Co.
    autorushing with PRE/POT bleed. I had a huge DOM/FOR bleed deck (#1
    seed) as my predator, and he bloated far more than he was pressured.

    So there were too many combat targets early for me to deal with - I
    couldn't move forward or I was dead from bleed. If I moved backward I
    would beat a couple of weenies but leave too many big DOM bleeders
    intact. So, I was pretty much paralyzed for quite a while and Robin
    was off to the races. Just about when I was thinking "MAYBE......next
    turn", my predator helped in voting up the first of two Con Boon
    Nossies and any hope of getting Robin was gone.

    So, I did what any irrational player from LA would do. I compounded
    the situation with 2 straight Anarchist Uprisings (1 blocked, 1 not) to
    kill Robin's prey crosstable and speed her the game and tournament win.
    I simply couldn't allow a terribly strong, #1 seeded predator to
    dictate the table perfectly to his liking.

    In the end, my predator's move was right (keeping an aggressive #2 seed
    from getting a VP) and he was pretty sure he could oust me if I ever
    made a move a missed (either forward or backward) - thereby securing a
    tournament win. So I understand why he did it - and I would have
    likely done the same thing in his shoes. And if I had made a deal with
    him to let me have Robin and I would roll, then I might have gotten 2nd
    instead of 3rd. But I was in a "screw this" mood, so Robin gets
    another win.

    Darby

    Darby
  14. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Go Robyn,congratulations!

    now, for some "direct questions "

    > 1 Anachronism

    ===>awesome!This, I would soooo love to see on a table :-))
    Guess I haven't seen this played in like, 8 years or so..

    > 1 Laptop Computer

    ====>Robyn,This is going to sound stupid, but it's actually true:
    you're one of the best players I know, so please, one of these days,
    you must teach me the use of this card.
    I have never ever succeeded in grasping why anyone would want to play
    this..

    BCingU
    /jo
  15. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    "Wolflord" <jo.herroelen@sca.com> wrote in message
    news:1126160807.814445.53410@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
    >> 1 Laptop Computer
    >
    > ====>Robyn,This is going to sound stupid, but it's actually true:
    > you're one of the best players I know, so please, one of these days,
    > you must teach me the use of this card.
    > I have never ever succeeded in grasping why anyone would want to play
    > this..

    FWIW, here's what I've found out about Laptop Computer.

    (First of all, as an aside, I will say Tasha Morgan and JS Simmons
    go in before the laptop unless there's some reason I want to use
    equipment. There's pros and cons, of course. If your metagame
    has a lot of Set's Calls and Far Masterys etc. and no Mesmerizes or
    Shattering Blows etc., maybe you might go ahead and pay the pool,
    I suppose.)

    Generally speaking laptops don't work, at least not for midcap
    vampires on up. If you're going to just use them straight out, no
    gimmicks or combos or anything, only ever bother using them with
    weenies. Otherwise, you can almost always find better things to
    do with your vampire than equip with a laptop. If your deck is
    a bleed deck with bleed enhancement cards, spending a turn
    equipping is going to take a long time to make a "profit" from.
    If you equip instead of bleeding for 3, it will take a total
    of four turns of bleeding (counting the turn you equipped as
    virtual "bleeding") to break even - that's a lot.

    If your deck is not a bleed deck, it may be easier to earn the
    turn back in terms of bleeding, but your minion probably has
    something else better to do, in line with the theme of the
    deck. Only when equipping weenies with laptops does the
    balance arguably turn in favor of using them.

    That said, of course, there are tricks and gimmicks you can find.
    My favorite is Heidelburg Castle. One minion equips with the
    Laptop, Heidelburg it to another minion on the same turn and get
    immediate use out of it. Then Heidelburg the laptop back and
    forth in subsequent turns and use it twice a turn. I have
    various anarch decks that bleed with Skulldugery and pass a
    laptop, JS Simmons, and Tasha Morgan back and fourth. Two
    bleeds a turn for four at base +1 stealth is surprisingly
    effective. The huge weakness? Someone intercepts or rushes
    the minion with all the goodies and torporizes. Now your
    goodies are beyond the reach of Heidelburg Castle and become
    fat bait for diablerie by your prey who doesn't even mind
    losing a vampire to a blood hunt if it shuts the whole thing
    down.

    A deck with lots of Freak Drives can equip, Freak Drive, and
    bleed the same turn. Whether it's worth it or not, I haven't
    decided.

    Another one with potential (I haven't tried it but it sounds
    good) is equipping with Reg Driscol, who can immediately pass
    it out to someone who can use it the same turn. Unfortunately,
    Reg himself is an 8-cap. Anyways, there's probably other ways
    of making it work.

    My $0.02.

    Fred
  16. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Wolflord wrote:
    > Go Robyn,congratulations!
    >
    > now, for some "direct questions "
    >
    > > 1 Anachronism
    >
    > ===>awesome!This, I would soooo love to see on a table :-))
    > Guess I haven't seen this played in like, 8 years or so..

    > > 1 Laptop Computer
    >
    > ====>Robyn,This is going to sound stupid, but it's actually true:
    > you're one of the best players I know, so please, one of these days,
    > you must teach me the use of this card.
    > I have never ever succeeded in grasping why anyone would want to play
    > this..

    I could spend 3 paragraphs defending this choice.... - but, in truth,
    I spent a good bit of that round wishing the Laptop and a few other
    things were Pushing The Limits!

    Maybe you can tell me how on earth you win with 30 masters in your
    decks?

    Robyn
    >
    > BCingU
    > /jo
  17. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    I figure if we're going to have a serious discussion about Laptop, we
    should at least examine the card in question.
    --------------------
    Laptop
    Equipment
    1 pool

    The minion with this equipment gets +1 bleed.
    --------------------
    This differs from another card, Computer Hacking, in that the laptop
    remains with the minion (as opposed to going to the ash heap), and the
    action to equip is at +1 stealth. This advantage reflects the
    portability and transferability of the laptop, and the ready access in
    the WoD of unsecured Wireless Access Points. Computer Hacking
    represents temporary access to information needed to remove the extra
    pool.

    Also, note the lack of uniqueness of the laptop, reflecting their ease
    of availability from any mail-order retailer. This quality stands in
    contrast to various, unique sources of increased bleed, such as J.S.
    Simmons and Tasha Morgan. They, savvy mortals that they are, will only
    work for one master at a time.

    Finally, note the lack of constricting requirements on the card. Any
    minion with the brains (apologies to Beast) and ability to open a
    laptop can use the IntarWeb.

    For the above reasons, Laptop's relative bonus is appropriately costed
    at 1 pool. The division of this cost between the actual laptop and its
    procurement overhead is unknown. Note that you may, via Jack of Both
    Sides, ship a laptop COD to a requesting vampire. While this method
    may be an unpleasant surprise for an unsuspecting vampire, it's always
    good to teach your minions the benefits of self-reliance.
  18. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Frederick Scott wrote:

    > Generally speaking laptops don't work, at least not for midcap
    > vampires on up.

    Generally, as Fred mentioned, Lap Tops are good in decks that have a lot of
    actions to waste (i.e. weenie decks). If you can squander actions to equip,
    and you can survive while you slowly build up, the Laptops can be good. In
    most cases, though, you are better off with, like, transient bleed actions.

    Theonly deck of about 20 I have currently that uses Laptops is a weenie
    Fortitude Mighty Zombie deck that usually has a lot of vampires out and
    generates a lot of pool by generally playing either a Minion Tap or a
    Tribute every turn of the game. With 5 or 6 minions and alot of pool gain,
    you can live long enough to benefit from some laptops in the long run. Most
    other types of decks, though, are better off with, if nothing else, the
    space spent on Computer Hackings, if not something better.


    Peter D Bakija
    pdb6@lightlink.com
    http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

    "So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
    easily spilled liquids to naked people."
    -Brittni Meil
  19. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    "Peter D Bakija" <pdb6@lightlink.com> wrote in message
    news:BF460F49.21DAC%pdb6@lightlink.com...
    > Frederick Scott wrote:
    >
    >> Generally speaking laptops don't work, at least not for midcap
    >> vampires on up.
    >
    > Generally, as Fred mentioned, Lap Tops are good in decks that have a lot
    > of
    > actions to waste (i.e. weenie decks). If you can squander actions to
    > equip,
    > and you can survive while you slowly build up, the Laptops can be good. In
    > most cases, though, you are better off with, like, transient bleed
    > actions.
    >
    Even in weenie decks, its ironic that the benefit of the Laptop doesn't lie
    in actually getting bleeds through for two. The benefit there is rather
    that, given limited blocking resources, a prey may opt _not_ to block lesser
    bleeds, preserving his block attempt for the grunt with the laptop... If
    your laptop is working, then you might not even be taking actions with that
    minion... Stupid game :-)

    DaveZ
    Atom Weaver
  20. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    On Wed, 7 Sep 2005 14:54:13 -0700, "Kevin M." <youwish@imaspammer.org>
    scrawled:

    >Frederick Scott <nospam@no.spam.dot.com> wrote:
    >> "Peter D Bakija" <pdb6@lightlink.com> wrote:
    >>> The Lasombra wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Deck Name: Sewer Party
    >>>> Created By: Robyn Tatu
    >>>> Description:
    >>>
    >>> Dude! Is this the deck that I won a tournament by sitting in front
    >>> of, specifically because I knew I couldn't be Nosferatu Performance
    >>> Arted?
    >>>
    >>> Awsome!
    >>
    >> OK, somebody explain to me how this deck wins. Just by titles,
    >> bloating, and stealth bleeds for one? (Except for the computer hack
    >> actions, obvously.)
    >
    >The deck wins because Robyn is playing it. Her skill as a player is
    >outstanding. She is the Annie Duke of VTES, and she will kick your ass.
    >She should quit and start playing tournament Poker for a living, but she'd
    >probably go up to 3 packs a day.

    Pfff. I've got way more than three decks, each of which i'd be happy
    to play in the same day.


    salem
    http://www.users.tpg.com.au/adsltqna/VtES/index.htm
    (replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)
  21. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 22:23:31 +1000, salem
    <salem_christ.geo@hotmail.com> wrote:

    >but she'd probably go up to 3 packs a day.


    >Pfff. I've got way more than three decks, each of which i'd be happy
    >to play in the same day.

    3 packs a day, as in cigarettes, not 3 decks.

    Robyn and David usually have between 20 and 30 decks built at a time.
  22. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Aha!
    "Ancient Metuselahs discussing the harder points of finetuning an
    already winning deck by mutual agreement on benefits of modern
    equipment versus old-style violence , followed by the dialogue on how
    there is no such thing as "too-many-masters in your deck""

    Now there's a seminar we should be teaching somewhere, you and me!
    :-))

    As to winning with a lot of masters, the reasoning is simple:
    *It enables you to play one every turn, with a variety of choices and
    possibilities.
    *Also, it simplifies the choice on what to discard at end of turn
    *It usually gives me a sense of direction,and allows for at least a
    little constructive planning for near-by future
    *it makes me feel safe and protected

    PS:sorry, guess I'm a bit mellow due to lack of nicotine. I quit
    smoking 2 months ago, and haven't fully regained my senses yet
  23. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Wow, 2 months with no smokes.
    Then that makes you the big winner, indeed!

    Congratulations!

    I'm off to build the 30 master deck. I'll let you know how it goes.
  24. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 20:23:08 -0400, The Lasombra
    <TheLasombra@hotmail.com> scrawled:

    >On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 22:23:31 +1000, salem
    ><salem_christ.geo@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >>but she'd probably go up to 3 packs a day.
    >
    >
    >>Pfff. I've got way more than three decks, each of which i'd be happy
    >>to play in the same day.
    >
    >3 packs a day, as in cigarettes, not 3 decks.
    >
    >Robyn and David usually have between 20 and 30 decks built at a time.

    I'd actually understood that. I was trying to be 'funny'.

    apparently, i failed. :)

    Back to wearing silly hats for me then....

    salem
    http://www.users.tpg.com.au/adsltqna/VtES/index.htm
    (replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)
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