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TWD - Dragon's Breath - DragonCon 2005

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Anonymous
September 5, 2005 6:06:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Dragon's Breath
DragonCon 2005
Atlanta, Georgia
September 3rd, 2005
18 players
3R + F

Deck Name: Sewer Party
Created By: Robyn Tatu
Description:

Crypt: (14 cards, Min: 10, Max: 28, Avg: 4.64)
----------------------------------------------
1 Tusk ani OBF pot 6, Nosferatu:1
1 KoKo pot 2, Nosferatu:1
1 Sammy ani obf pot 4, Nosferatu:1
1 Duck obf pot 3, Nosferatu:1
1 Tiberius ani cel obf pot 5, Nosferatu:1
1 Nikolaus Vermeulen ani for obf POT 7, Nosferatu:2, Prince
1 Laurent de Valois ani dom obf 4, Nosferatu:2
1 Calebros ANI obf pot 5, Nosferatu:2, Prince
1 Dimple obf 2, Nosferatu:1
1 Agrippina OBF pot 4, Nosferatu:1
1 Murat OBF POT ser 7, Nosferatu:2, Prince
1 Selma the Repugnant ani for OBF POT 8, Nosferatu:1, Prince
1 Regilio aus obf 3, Nosferatu:2
1 Grendel the Worm-Eaten ani OBF pot 5, Nosferatu:1

Library: (90 cards)
-------------------
Master (16 cards)
1 Anachronism
1 Archon Investigation
6 Blood Doll
1 Fear of Mekhet
2 Life in the City
1 Retribution
1 Slum Hunting Ground
2 Sudden Reversal
1 Tribute to the Master

Action (14 cards)
5 Computer Hacking
1 Judgment: Camarilla Segregation
3 Kindred Intelligence
1 Night Moves
1 Nosferatu Performance Art
3 Patagia: Flaps Allowing Limited Flight

Action Modifier (22 cards)
4 Cloak the Gathering
4 Elder Impersonation
4 Faceless Night
3 Forgotten Labyrinth
4 Lost in Crowds
1 Marked Path
2 Spying Mission

Political Action (13 cards)
7 Consanguineous Boon
1 Disputed Territory
1 Nosferatu Justicar
1 Praxis Seizure: Atlanta
1 Praxis Seizure: Frankfurt
1 Praxis Seizure: Houston
1 Praxis Seizure: London

Reaction (9 cards)
2 Confusion of the Eye
1 Poison Pill
3 Second Tradition: Domain, The
3 Wake with Evening's Freshness

Ally (2 cards)
2 Procurer

Equipment (11 cards)
2 Blood Tears of Kephran
1 Blow Torch
1 Deer Rifle
1 Flak Jacket
1 Flaming Candle
1 Gas-Powered Chainsaw
1 Laptop Computer
2 Leather Jacket
1 Palatial Estate

Combo (3 cards)
3 Swallowed by the Night

This deck was last saved at 11:06:19 AM on 9/5/05
Anonymous
September 5, 2005 6:06:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

..

Rock on, Robyn! And keep rocking on!


- Ben Peal
Anonymous
September 5, 2005 9:45:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

The Lasombra wrote:

> Deck Name: Sewer Party
> Created By: Robyn Tatu
> Description:

Dude! Is this the deck that I won a tournament by sitting in front of,
specifically because I knew I couldn't be Nosferatu Performance Arted?

Awsome!


Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil
Related resources
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 6:41:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Hey Robyn,

Cool deck! Did you consider using Pier 13? Just curious. Obviously
it worked well enough without it!

I'd love to hear a tournament report if anyone cared to write one up.

Ira
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 2:29:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Peter D Bakija" <pdb6@lightlink.com> wrote in message
news:BF4234D5.21C83%pdb6@lightlink.com...
> The Lasombra wrote:
>
>> Deck Name: Sewer Party
>> Created By: Robyn Tatu
>> Description:
>
> Dude! Is this the deck that I won a tournament by sitting in front of,
> specifically because I knew I couldn't be Nosferatu Performance Arted?
>
> Awsome!

OK, somebody explain to me how this deck wins. Just by titles, bloating,
and stealth bleeds for one? (Except for the computer hack actions,
obvously.)

Fred
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 3:06:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Frederick Scott wrote:
> "Peter D Bakija" <pdb6@lightlink.com> wrote in message
> news:BF4234D5.21C83%pdb6@lightlink.com...
> > The Lasombra wrote:
> >
> >> Deck Name: Sewer Party
> >> Created By: Robyn Tatu
> >> Description:
> >
> > Dude! Is this the deck that I won a tournament by sitting in front of,
> > specifically because I knew I couldn't be Nosferatu Performance Arted?
> >
> > Awsome!
>
> OK, somebody explain to me how this deck wins. Just by titles, bloating,
> and stealth bleeds for one? (Except for the computer hack actions,
> obvously.)
>
> Fred

One word:

Attrition

Jeff

P.S. Ya forgot the Laptop Computer. ;) 
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 8:40:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Frederick Scott wrote:

> OK, somebody explain to me how this deck wins. Just by titles, bloating,
> and stealth bleeds for one? (Except for the computer hack actions,
> obvously.)

Bloating, stealthy bleeds for one, some guns, and clever table play.

Like, yeah, it doesn't look that killer, but it got into the finals of the
3R+F 30 person tournament at Origins, and won at Dragon Con. It clearly is
doing something right.

And getting to, like, torp and diablerize your prey's Alexandria through
Performance Art never hurts either...


Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil
Anonymous
September 7, 2005 12:02:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On Wed, 7 Sep 2005, Frederick Scott wrote:

> change. Just look innocuous and hold enough bleed in your hand to make
> a surprise oust, I guess. (And stay in the game until that point.)

The lazy path is strong. Why do you think weenie dom bleed runs out of
steam after it's first prey and often can't take a table. It's really
hard to put 120 points of bleed in a deck.

Matt Morgan
Anonymous
September 7, 2005 12:05:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Frederick Scott wrote:
> "Peter D Bakija" <pdb6@lightlink.com> wrote in message
> news:BF4234D5.21C83%pdb6@lightlink.com...
>
>>The Lasombra wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Deck Name: Sewer Party
>>>Created By: Robyn Tatu
>>>Description:
>>
>>Dude! Is this the deck that I won a tournament by sitting in front of,
>>specifically because I knew I couldn't be Nosferatu Performance Arted?
>>
>>Awsome!
>
>
> OK, somebody explain to me how this deck wins. Just by titles, bloating,
> and stealth bleeds for one? (Except for the computer hack actions,
> obvously.)

It wins by not being ultra-agressive and therefore not being the table
threat. Clever play along with steady pressure does the job most of the
time. Better let others do the dirty work (e.g on a 5 player table, let
the other four players clinch in two 2 player duels) and then just clear
the leftovers.

--
johannes walch
Anonymous
September 7, 2005 12:05:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Johannes Walch" <johannes.walch@vekn.de> wrote in message
news:D flvva$2ub$1@news01.versatel.de...
> Frederick Scott wrote:
>> "Peter D Bakija" <pdb6@lightlink.com> wrote in message
>> news:BF4234D5.21C83%pdb6@lightlink.com...
>>>The Lasombra wrote:
>>>>Deck Name: Sewer Party
>>>>Created By: Robyn Tatu
>>>>Description:
>>>
>>>Dude! Is this the deck that I won a tournament by sitting in front of,
>>>specifically because I knew I couldn't be Nosferatu Performance Arted?
>>>
>>>Awsome!
>>
>> OK, somebody explain to me how this deck wins. Just by titles, bloating,
>> and stealth bleeds for one? (Except for the computer hack actions,
>> obvously.)
>
> It wins by not being ultra-agressive and therefore not being the table threat. Clever play along with steady pressure does the job
> most of the time. Better let others do the dirty work (e.g on a 5 player table, let the other four players clinch in two 2 player
> duels) and then just clear the leftovers.

Well, at least I wasn't missing anything obvious. It must be the opposite
of the disadvantage of looking overtly powerful - like when you start
producing two Embraces a turn or something. Or put down a Parthenon
followed by three Anarch Revolts in exactly two turns, back before the
change. Just look innocuous and hold enough bleed in your hand to make
a surprise oust, I guess. (And stay in the game until that point.)

Fred
Anonymous
September 7, 2005 6:54:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Frederick Scott <nospam@no.spam.dot.com> wrote:
> "Peter D Bakija" <pdb6@lightlink.com> wrote:
>> The Lasombra wrote:
>>
>>> Deck Name: Sewer Party
>>> Created By: Robyn Tatu
>>> Description:
>>
>> Dude! Is this the deck that I won a tournament by sitting in front
>> of, specifically because I knew I couldn't be Nosferatu Performance
>> Arted?
>>
>> Awsome!
>
> OK, somebody explain to me how this deck wins. Just by titles,
> bloating, and stealth bleeds for one? (Except for the computer hack
> actions, obvously.)

The deck wins because Robyn is playing it. Her skill as a player is
outstanding. She is the Annie Duke of VTES, and she will kick your ass.
She should quit and start playing tournament Poker for a living, but she'd
probably go up to 3 packs a day. ;)  Seriously. She is that good.

> Fred

Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy, and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment... Complacency... Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Anonymous
September 7, 2005 8:35:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Kevin M." <youwish@imaspammer.org> wrote in message
news:1lJTe.192115$E95.37731@fed1read01...
> Frederick Scott <nospam@no.spam.dot.com> wrote:
>> OK, somebody explain to me how this deck wins. Just by titles,
>> bloating, and stealth bleeds for one? (Except for the computer hack
>> actions, obvously.)
>
> The deck wins because Robyn is playing it. Her skill as a player is
> outstanding. She is the Annie Duke of VTES, and she will kick your ass.

Well, sure. Sadly, though, that's not really saying much.

But now who is Annie Duke?

Fred, the Terry Felton of VTES

(look up baseball records, Minnesota Twins, 1979-1982, if you're curious)
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 12:35:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Frederick Scott wrote:

> But now who is Annie Duke?

The best female pro poker player in the US or world or something. Pretty
much. Kind of a minor celebrity these days due to endless poker on TV, and
the TV shows liking to, like, focus on her as being a "woman in a man's
game" or whatever.


Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 2:26:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Fred -

It won the finals by unusual circumstance. This isn't to say that
Robin is anything other than an world-class player - we all know she
is. But she had no predator through most of the game (I know, because
it was me). I (#2 seed) sat behind Robin, playing McNeil and Co.
autorushing with PRE/POT bleed. I had a huge DOM/FOR bleed deck (#1
seed) as my predator, and he bloated far more than he was pressured.

So there were too many combat targets early for me to deal with - I
couldn't move forward or I was dead from bleed. If I moved backward I
would beat a couple of weenies but leave too many big DOM bleeders
intact. So, I was pretty much paralyzed for quite a while and Robin
was off to the races. Just about when I was thinking "MAYBE......next
turn", my predator helped in voting up the first of two Con Boon
Nossies and any hope of getting Robin was gone.

So, I did what any irrational player from LA would do. I compounded
the situation with 2 straight Anarchist Uprisings (1 blocked, 1 not) to
kill Robin's prey crosstable and speed her the game and tournament win.
I simply couldn't allow a terribly strong, #1 seeded predator to
dictate the table perfectly to his liking.

In the end, my predator's move was right (keeping an aggressive #2 seed
from getting a VP) and he was pretty sure he could oust me if I ever
made a move a missed (either forward or backward) - thereby securing a
tournament win. So I understand why he did it - and I would have
likely done the same thing in his shoes. And if I had made a deal with
him to let me have Robin and I would roll, then I might have gotten 2nd
instead of 3rd. But I was in a "screw this" mood, so Robin gets
another win.

Darby

Darby
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 3:26:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Go Robyn,congratulations!

now, for some "direct questions "

> 1 Anachronism

===>awesome!This, I would soooo love to see on a table :-))
Guess I haven't seen this played in like, 8 years or so..

> 1 Laptop Computer

====>Robyn,This is going to sound stupid, but it's actually true:
you're one of the best players I know, so please, one of these days,
you must teach me the use of this card.
I have never ever succeeded in grasping why anyone would want to play
this..

BCingU
/jo
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 4:48:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Wolflord" <jo.herroelen@sca.com> wrote in message
news:1126160807.814445.53410@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>> 1 Laptop Computer
>
> ====>Robyn,This is going to sound stupid, but it's actually true:
> you're one of the best players I know, so please, one of these days,
> you must teach me the use of this card.
> I have never ever succeeded in grasping why anyone would want to play
> this..

FWIW, here's what I've found out about Laptop Computer.

(First of all, as an aside, I will say Tasha Morgan and JS Simmons
go in before the laptop unless there's some reason I want to use
equipment. There's pros and cons, of course. If your metagame
has a lot of Set's Calls and Far Masterys etc. and no Mesmerizes or
Shattering Blows etc., maybe you might go ahead and pay the pool,
I suppose.)

Generally speaking laptops don't work, at least not for midcap
vampires on up. If you're going to just use them straight out, no
gimmicks or combos or anything, only ever bother using them with
weenies. Otherwise, you can almost always find better things to
do with your vampire than equip with a laptop. If your deck is
a bleed deck with bleed enhancement cards, spending a turn
equipping is going to take a long time to make a "profit" from.
If you equip instead of bleeding for 3, it will take a total
of four turns of bleeding (counting the turn you equipped as
virtual "bleeding") to break even - that's a lot.

If your deck is not a bleed deck, it may be easier to earn the
turn back in terms of bleeding, but your minion probably has
something else better to do, in line with the theme of the
deck. Only when equipping weenies with laptops does the
balance arguably turn in favor of using them.

That said, of course, there are tricks and gimmicks you can find.
My favorite is Heidelburg Castle. One minion equips with the
Laptop, Heidelburg it to another minion on the same turn and get
immediate use out of it. Then Heidelburg the laptop back and
forth in subsequent turns and use it twice a turn. I have
various anarch decks that bleed with Skulldugery and pass a
laptop, JS Simmons, and Tasha Morgan back and fourth. Two
bleeds a turn for four at base +1 stealth is surprisingly
effective. The huge weakness? Someone intercepts or rushes
the minion with all the goodies and torporizes. Now your
goodies are beyond the reach of Heidelburg Castle and become
fat bait for diablerie by your prey who doesn't even mind
losing a vampire to a blood hunt if it shuts the whole thing
down.

A deck with lots of Freak Drives can equip, Freak Drive, and
bleed the same turn. Whether it's worth it or not, I haven't
decided.

Another one with potential (I haven't tried it but it sounds
good) is equipping with Reg Driscol, who can immediately pass
it out to someone who can use it the same turn. Unfortunately,
Reg himself is an 8-cap. Anyways, there's probably other ways
of making it work.

My $0.02.

Fred
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 1:42:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Wolflord wrote:
> Go Robyn,congratulations!
>
> now, for some "direct questions "
>
> > 1 Anachronism
>
> ===>awesome!This, I would soooo love to see on a table :-))
> Guess I haven't seen this played in like, 8 years or so..

> > 1 Laptop Computer
>
> ====>Robyn,This is going to sound stupid, but it's actually true:
> you're one of the best players I know, so please, one of these days,
> you must teach me the use of this card.
> I have never ever succeeded in grasping why anyone would want to play
> this..

I could spend 3 paragraphs defending this choice.... - but, in truth,
I spent a good bit of that round wishing the Laptop and a few other
things were Pushing The Limits!

Maybe you can tell me how on earth you win with 30 masters in your
decks?

Robyn
>
> BCingU
> /jo
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 6:47:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

I figure if we're going to have a serious discussion about Laptop, we
should at least examine the card in question.
--------------------
Laptop
Equipment
1 pool

The minion with this equipment gets +1 bleed.
--------------------
This differs from another card, Computer Hacking, in that the laptop
remains with the minion (as opposed to going to the ash heap), and the
action to equip is at +1 stealth. This advantage reflects the
portability and transferability of the laptop, and the ready access in
the WoD of unsecured Wireless Access Points. Computer Hacking
represents temporary access to information needed to remove the extra
pool.

Also, note the lack of uniqueness of the laptop, reflecting their ease
of availability from any mail-order retailer. This quality stands in
contrast to various, unique sources of increased bleed, such as J.S.
Simmons and Tasha Morgan. They, savvy mortals that they are, will only
work for one master at a time.

Finally, note the lack of constricting requirements on the card. Any
minion with the brains (apologies to Beast) and ability to open a
laptop can use the IntarWeb.

For the above reasons, Laptop's relative bonus is appropriately costed
at 1 pool. The division of this cost between the actual laptop and its
procurement overhead is unknown. Note that you may, via Jack of Both
Sides, ship a laptop COD to a requesting vampire. While this method
may be an unpleasant surprise for an unsuspecting vampire, it's always
good to teach your minions the benefits of self-reliance.
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 7:54:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Frederick Scott wrote:

> Generally speaking laptops don't work, at least not for midcap
> vampires on up.

Generally, as Fred mentioned, Lap Tops are good in decks that have a lot of
actions to waste (i.e. weenie decks). If you can squander actions to equip,
and you can survive while you slowly build up, the Laptops can be good. In
most cases, though, you are better off with, like, transient bleed actions.

Theonly deck of about 20 I have currently that uses Laptops is a weenie
Fortitude Mighty Zombie deck that usually has a lot of vampires out and
generates a lot of pool by generally playing either a Minion Tap or a
Tribute every turn of the game. With 5 or 6 minions and alot of pool gain,
you can live long enough to benefit from some laptops in the long run. Most
other types of decks, though, are better off with, if nothing else, the
space spent on Computer Hackings, if not something better.


Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 12:31:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Peter D Bakija" <pdb6@lightlink.com> wrote in message
news:BF460F49.21DAC%pdb6@lightlink.com...
> Frederick Scott wrote:
>
>> Generally speaking laptops don't work, at least not for midcap
>> vampires on up.
>
> Generally, as Fred mentioned, Lap Tops are good in decks that have a lot
> of
> actions to waste (i.e. weenie decks). If you can squander actions to
> equip,
> and you can survive while you slowly build up, the Laptops can be good. In
> most cases, though, you are better off with, like, transient bleed
> actions.
>
Even in weenie decks, its ironic that the benefit of the Laptop doesn't lie
in actually getting bleeds through for two. The benefit there is rather
that, given limited blocking resources, a prey may opt _not_ to block lesser
bleeds, preserving his block attempt for the grunt with the laptop... If
your laptop is working, then you might not even be taking actions with that
minion... Stupid game :-)

DaveZ
Atom Weaver
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 2:23:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On Wed, 7 Sep 2005 14:54:13 -0700, "Kevin M." <youwish@imaspammer.org>
scrawled:

>Frederick Scott <nospam@no.spam.dot.com> wrote:
>> "Peter D Bakija" <pdb6@lightlink.com> wrote:
>>> The Lasombra wrote:
>>>
>>>> Deck Name: Sewer Party
>>>> Created By: Robyn Tatu
>>>> Description:
>>>
>>> Dude! Is this the deck that I won a tournament by sitting in front
>>> of, specifically because I knew I couldn't be Nosferatu Performance
>>> Arted?
>>>
>>> Awsome!
>>
>> OK, somebody explain to me how this deck wins. Just by titles,
>> bloating, and stealth bleeds for one? (Except for the computer hack
>> actions, obvously.)
>
>The deck wins because Robyn is playing it. Her skill as a player is
>outstanding. She is the Annie Duke of VTES, and she will kick your ass.
>She should quit and start playing tournament Poker for a living, but she'd
>probably go up to 3 packs a day.

Pfff. I've got way more than three decks, each of which i'd be happy
to play in the same day.


salem
http://www.users.tpg.com.au/adsltqna/VtES/index.htm
(replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 2:23:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 22:23:31 +1000, salem
<salem_christ.geo@hotmail.com> wrote:

>but she'd probably go up to 3 packs a day.


>Pfff. I've got way more than three decks, each of which i'd be happy
>to play in the same day.

3 packs a day, as in cigarettes, not 3 decks.

Robyn and David usually have between 20 and 30 decks built at a time.
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 7:49:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Aha!
"Ancient Metuselahs discussing the harder points of finetuning an
already winning deck by mutual agreement on benefits of modern
equipment versus old-style violence , followed by the dialogue on how
there is no such thing as "too-many-masters in your deck""

Now there's a seminar we should be teaching somewhere, you and me!
:-))

As to winning with a lot of masters, the reasoning is simple:
*It enables you to play one every turn, with a variety of choices and
possibilities.
*Also, it simplifies the choice on what to discard at end of turn
*It usually gives me a sense of direction,and allows for at least a
little constructive planning for near-by future
*it makes me feel safe and protected

PS:sorry, guess I'm a bit mellow due to lack of nicotine. I quit
smoking 2 months ago, and haven't fully regained my senses yet
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 9:41:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Wow, 2 months with no smokes.
Then that makes you the big winner, indeed!

Congratulations!

I'm off to build the 30 master deck. I'll let you know how it goes.
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 12:17:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 20:23:08 -0400, The Lasombra
<TheLasombra@hotmail.com> scrawled:

>On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 22:23:31 +1000, salem
><salem_christ.geo@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>but she'd probably go up to 3 packs a day.
>
>
>>Pfff. I've got way more than three decks, each of which i'd be happy
>>to play in the same day.
>
>3 packs a day, as in cigarettes, not 3 decks.
>
>Robyn and David usually have between 20 and 30 decks built at a time.

I'd actually understood that. I was trying to be 'funny'.

apparently, i failed. :) 

Back to wearing silly hats for me then....

salem
http://www.users.tpg.com.au/adsltqna/VtES/index.htm
(replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)
!