NVidia cheats with FXDrivers

Virtual_Reality · May 18, 2003

"...In our recent GeforceFX 5900 Ultra story, we noticed the Nvidia board was well ahead of ATI's Radeon 9800 Pro in Futuremark's 3DMark2003 benchmark, but the two boards were much more evenly matched in our GameGauge application benchmark suite.

We've just discovered certain test anomalies that indicate to us that Nvidia may be special-casing 3DMark2003, throwing away work, to attain higher scores.

We had thought, with the GeForceFX 5900 Ultra now out of the bag, that we were in for a bit of a post-launch lull. But as it turns out, things are just starting to get interesting.

We stated in our GeForceFX 5900 Ultra review that we found the 256MB 5900 Ultra's 3DMark03 results were faster than those delivered by the Radeon 9800 Pro 256MB card, while the 3D GameGauge scores of the two cards were more evenly matched. We found this somewhat odd, and attributed this disconnect to 3DMark03's using vertex and pixel shader code, whereas seven of the eight tests in 3D GameGauge do not..."

You can find the rest here:
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1086025,00.asp

TheGreatGrapeApe · May 18, 2003

You're Kidding? Man that's Weird, no ones mentioned anything about it here. Stange you would think something like this would get more attention, especially in a place like THG.

Are you sure about this?

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! RED GREEN :tongue: GA to SK

Twitch · May 18, 2003

Obviously the story must be false, since everyone knows nVidia would NEEEVER do anything dishonest ever.

The Netherlands is where you go when you're too good for heaven. :tongue:

TheGreatGrapeApe · May 18, 2003

I don't know where this guy gets his info. But Unless I hear more, I don't trust him!

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! RED GREEN :tongue: GA to SK

BigBiggist · May 18, 2003

Yeah i saw that too. nVidia claims that its a bug in the drivers. They say that the card can intelligently choose how to best and most quickly render something. So its cutting corners to save some time.

We discussed our findings with nVidia before we published this article, and the company's Direct3D driver team is currently investigating the problem. At press time, the company's engineers believe that the anomalies we're seeing are the result of a driver bug.

nVidia believes that the GeForceFX 5900 Ultra is trying to do intelligent culling and clipping to reduce its rendering workload, but that the code may be performing some incorrect operations. Because nVidia is not currently a member of FutureMark's beta program, it does not have access to the developer version of 3DMark2003 that we used to uncover these issues.

Over the coming days, nVidia will be exploring the issues we raised. We will post nVidia's findings as soon as it makes them available to us, along with any additional testing details if the company releases an updated driver.

Our own interpretation of these test results is that nVidia is improperly cutting corners to attempt to inflate its 3DMark2003 scores for the new GeForceFX 5900 Ultra. The company, on the other hand, again believes that the problems can be attributed to a driver bug. Let's explore exactly what we found, and you can draw your own conclusions.

Extremetech.com

Rage3D linked the article. they seem to be pretty reliable even though they are hardcore ATI.

reever2 · May 18, 2003

Lol, if they make a card that can intelligently cull everything that would be great, too bad it only does it during 3dmark03 so that throws every indication that its a bug out the window...

GeneticWeapon · May 18, 2003

We have this entire topic covered in other threads with similar titles. I would suggest that nOObs read further then the front page before before they start a new thread.
Thank You.

120% ATi Fanboy!
3DMark 2001SE
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6481580" target="_new">http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6481580</A>

ra5555 · May 18, 2003

the Drivers are WHQL FOR the GEforce FX so I can't really see it beeing cheating. Besides, nobody using FX is reporting any abnormities.

I think the new drivers are great even for my Asus GF4Ti4200 128MB, the IQ are a lot better than before. UT's framerate have drasticly increased for virtually all Nvidia cards (GF2 and UP)Edited by ra5555 on 05/18/03 00:27 AM.

GeneticWeapon · May 18, 2003

Microsoft HQL doesnt check for cheating nOOb. They check to make sure that the driver is compatible with their software, and that it makes them look good....
(microsoft says it's good so it must be!<vomits>)

120% ATi Fanboy!
3DMark 2001SE
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6481580" target="_new">http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6481580</A>

Twitch · May 18, 2003

The enormity of the "abnormities" is baffling.

The Netherlands is where you go when you're too good for heaven. :tongue:

ra5555 · May 18, 2003

you are the newbie, cause you didn't fully read what I have said.

if you are saying nvida is cheating, show me the proof? Include images so we can all see.Edited by ra5555 on 05/18/03 02:08 AM.

phial · May 18, 2003

OMG dude check this out! i found a totally awesome thread!

<A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=350181#350181" target="_new">thread by a very cool person</A>

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<A HREF="http://www.xgr.com" target="_new">XGR-Game Reviews</A>

"You change the channel, and you change our minds..." - System of a Down

GeneticWeapon · May 18, 2003

Here ya go ra5555...dumbass.....<A HREF="http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5856" target="_new">http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5856</A>
You still wont believe though....your one of THOSE people.

120% ATi Fanboy!
3DMark 2001SE
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6481580" target="_new">http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6481580</A>

TheGreatGrapeApe · May 18, 2003

Wow increadible logic, You are the nOOb, blah!

Seriously that wouldn't be so funny if beside his name wasn't PLASTERED 'Newbie'.

Man I thought Twitch an I could kill this at the start but oh well, follow the links people and learn.

Go get 'em GW!

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! RED GREEN :tongue: GA to SK

phial · May 18, 2003

[qoute]Here ya go ra5555...dumbass.....http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5856
You still wont believe though....your one of THOSE people.[/quote]

haha!@!111!!!

man.... dammit GW, stop being so hilarious. i hate respondig to oyur posts all the time cause im lauhging my ass off. btw im kindaloaded off cheap canddian whine so done mind my spelling errors

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<A HREF="http://www.xgr.com" target="_new">XGR-Game Reviews</A>

"You change the channel, and you change our minds..." - System of a Down

GeneticWeapon · May 18, 2003

Lol....he never responded back....And Phial, there is NO cheap wine here in sunny California!
(grapes grow in Canada?)

120% ATi Fanboy!
3DMark 03 = 4,101
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=775464" target="_new">http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=775464</A>

TheGreatGrapeApe · May 18, 2003

Nah, Cali's got Mad Dog 20-20 and Thunderbird! And a 40 of Malt Liquor!

BTW, Icewine from Niagara, MmmmMmmm, best Canadian wine of all (Icewine from BC not bad either) Mmmm Grapes, Concord Grapes #1!

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! RED GREEN :tongue: GA to SK

ra5555 · May 18, 2003

geneticweapon, I have seen the website you have given me, Detonator FX is still an excellent driver, at least for me.

I can't comment on GF FX because I don't have one.

Edited by ra5555 on 05/18/03 11:46 AM.

phial · May 18, 2003

you piece of no life

HAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! roflmao~!!!~`````1111~~~!!1111

-------

<A HREF="http://www.xgr.com" target="_new">XGR-Game Reviews</A>

"You change the channel, and you change our minds..." - System of a Down

phial · May 18, 2003

you piece of no life

HAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! roflmao~!!!~`````1111~~~!!1111

-------

<A HREF="http://www.xgr.com" target="_new">XGR-Game Reviews</A>

"You change the channel, and you change our minds..." - System of a Down

TheGreatGrapeApe · May 18, 2003

I love the double post, :tongue: but who was the quoted part directed at it appears ra5555 didn't have the temerity to leave it up. HEhe, Noobie! HEhe!

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! RED GREEN :tongue: GA to SK

phial · May 19, 2003

yeah he deleted it!

hahahahahahha

-------

<A HREF="http://www.xgr.com" target="_new">XGR-Game Reviews</A>

"You change the channel, and you change our minds..." - System of a Down

GeneticWeapon · May 19, 2003

ra5555, you asked for proof of Nvidia cheating...with pictures. I gave it to you.. Now you say that the FX driver is excellent. That wasnt even the subject dingleberry...the subject was, Nvidia cheating....stay on track nOOb...and come back here and argue with me..

120% ATi Fanboy!
3DMark 03 = 4,101
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=775464" target="_new">http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=775464</A>

ra5555 · May 19, 2003

Don't you know any respect? I shouldn't have called you a no life because I respect people with different interests, I only posted that because I was a bit mad. I am sorry. After reading the site you have posted I think Nvidia might have cheated but I can never be sure because I don't have a FX. Its not like I care about FX because I don't have one, the drivers are great for my old GF4 Ti (Great IQ) so I am happy.

Tomshardware is a great site and I once recieved some great help from some wonderful people suggesting and helping me with my most reccent upgrade.

Just remember that you should treat people how you would like to be treated yourself. You should not have called me a NooB because its disrespectful. I do not apperciate it.

Regards

ra

Edited by ra5555 on 05/19/03 01:28 AM.

GeneticWeapon · May 19, 2003

Hey, We were all nOObs once here, I had to live through it, and so do you....Besides, what does it say under your name over there on the left?....thats right, newbie. If your going to be a wussy, your not going to last a week here...so toughen up, and tell me what your Mom's wearin' right now.....

120% ATi Fanboy!
3DMark 03 = 4,101
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=775464" target="_new">http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=775464</A>

NVidia cheats with FXDrivers

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