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Deck: Proxy Kissed Bruise and Bleed

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Anonymous
September 7, 2005 9:04:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

I heard there was some mention of this deck by others, so at their
request I am posting it for further discussion here. Note that it's
pretty darn master-light. I've found this to be critical with Proxy
Kissed, at least when playing with smaller vamps. Comments?


Deck Name: Proxy Kissed Bruise and Bleed
Created By: Eric Simon

Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 10, Max: 20, Avg: 3.83)
----------------------------------------------
2 Vittorio Giovanni dom for nec pot 5 Giovanni
1 Paul DiCarlo pot 2 Giovanni
2 Gloria Giovanni nec DOM 4 Giovanni
1 Francesca Giovanni dom nec pot 4 Giovanni
2 Isabel Giovanni pot DOM NEC 5 Giovanni
1 Marciana Giovanni dom 2 Giovanni
2 Lia Milliner dom nec 3 Giovanni
1 Chas Giovanni Tello DOM POT 4 Giovanni

Library: (75 cards)
-------------------
Master (15 cards)
8 Proxy Kissed
1 Morgue Hunting Ground
1 Acquired Ventrue Assets
4 Blood Doll
1 Dis Pater

Action (10 cards)
2 Sudario Refraction
7 Govern the Unaligned
1 Far Mastery

Action Modifier (14 cards)
7 Threats
3 Dawn Operation
4 Foreshadowing Destruction

Reaction (4 cards)
4 Deflection

Combat (32 cards)
2 Mercy for Seth
7 Torn Signpost
4 Skin of Steel
4 Skin of Night
6 Soak
3 Earthshock
4 Taste of Vitae
2 Disarm


Eric Simon
Prince of Chicago
Anonymous
September 7, 2005 11:34:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

volya42@yahoo.com wrote:
> I heard there was some mention of this deck by others, so at their
> request I am posting it for further discussion here. Note that it's
> pretty darn master-light. I've found this to be critical with Proxy
> Kissed, at least when playing with smaller vamps. Comments?
>
> Combat (32 cards)
> 2 Mercy for Seth
> 7 Torn Signpost
> 4 Skin of Steel
> 4 Skin of Night

Is there something in your metagame or a trick in your deck that I'm
not seeing here for use with the Skins of Night? They're almost always
better as Skin of Rock or sometimes Resilience, in my experience.

Also, why the small deck size?


John Eno
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 1:02:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

I like the deck. I would, however, run a different combat package that
would look something like this:

Combat (34 cards)
4 Disarm
2 Skin of Steel
2 Skin of Night
6 Pushing the Limit
6 Soak
6 Torn Signpost
4 Thrown Sewer Lid
4 Taste of Vitae

I would remove 1x Foreshadowing Destruction and 1x Far Mastery to make
room for the two extra combat cards. I like the library at 75 cards.
Thrown Sewer Lid over Earthshock. Not a bad card but I would rather pay
the blood on pushing the limit, prevent, disarm and use thrown sewer
lid on those who flee. Big fan of Sudario Refraction in the deck,
allowing you to retrieve pushing (or torn signpost), prevent and disarm
or anything else you may need in a jiffy; all while getting rid of
extra Kisses that may be stuck in your hand. You might also want to
replace Acquired Ventrue Assests with Perfectionist since they can burn
the former. Looks good!
Related resources
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 1:27:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

evil_inside1...@hotmail.com wrote:
> I like the deck. I would, however, run a different combat package that
> would look something like this:
>
> Combat (34 cards)
> 4 Disarm
> 2 Skin of Steel
> 2 Skin of Night
> 6 Pushing the Limit
> 6 Soak
> 6 Torn Signpost
> 4 Thrown Sewer Lid
> 4 Taste of Vitae

Roughly comparable. I think the difference is partially metagame and
partially personal interest in playing with different cards. The main
reason for Earthshock is that it's cyclable at close (and good
anti-dodge even then), and keeps the Torn Signpost useful. I like
that. Lids are nice, but I've found that against celerity decks they
often fail to land. To answer the other post's question, yes we see a
fair bit of agg-poke locally, and the Skins of Night are also there for
the Dawn Ops in case of unpreventable damage. (Interestingly, this
deck faced a Weather Control deck last night.)

> I would remove 1x Foreshadowing Destruction and 1x Far Mastery to make
> room for the two extra combat cards. I like the library at 75 cards.

To answer the other question from the other post, small deck size has
been critical in cycling to the Proxy Kisseds. You'd think 8 was
plenty, but I really need to have them in-hand and ready to go. We've
been quite ally-heavy around here since KMW, which is the reason for
the Far Mastery.

> Thrown Sewer Lid over Earthshock. Not a bad card but I would rather pay
> the blood on pushing the limit, prevent, disarm and use thrown sewer
> lid on those who flee. Big fan of Sudario Refraction in the deck,
> allowing you to retrieve pushing (or torn signpost), prevent and disarm
> or anything else you may need in a jiffy; all while getting rid of
> extra Kisses that may be stuck in your hand. You might also want to
> replace Acquired Ventrue Assests with Perfectionist since they can burn
> the former. Looks good!

Perfectionist is a great card, but I don't like having to care about a
particular minion, and I expect to be blocked. Oddly enough, it seems
like few people come get the Assets, and I'm always happy to block
no-stealth actions. I think of it like a Life in the City in that I
can use it immediately, but then it might be usable a few more times.

Anyway, thanks for the comments. I'll keep eyeballing the combat to
see how it might handle better with your tweaks.
September 8, 2005 6:47:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

> 2 Vittorio Giovanni dom for nec pot 5 Giovanni
> 1 Paul DiCarlo pot 2 Giovanni
> 2 Gloria Giovanni nec DOM 4 Giovanni
> 1 Francesca Giovanni dom nec pot 4 Giovanni
> 2 Isabel Giovanni pot DOM NEC 5 Giovanni
> 1 Marciana Giovanni dom 2 Giovanni
> 2 Lia Milliner dom nec 3 Giovanni
> 1 Chas Giovanni Tello DOM POT 4 Giovanni

I think you could add in Mario and Cristofero as small-cap [pot] guys.
No Dominate, but with Proxy Kissed they have [for][POT] and can be
threatening enough if you have Dis Pater in play.

> Master (15 cards)
> 8 Proxy Kissed

Maybe add a couple more, to make sure you get at least 1 or 2 at the
start of the game.

> 1 Morgue Hunting Ground
> 1 Acquired Ventrue Assets

I'd loose these and put in Glass Walker Pact. It can have a huge
effect, even if it lasts for only a few turns.

> 1 Dis Pater

I'd recommend two Dis Pater. Getting it in play can make virtually
every bleed action you take that much more threatening, without the
need for any bleed mods in hand.

Also consider a few cheap permanents to help you stop running out of
steam; Ivory Bow, Brass Knuckles, Desert Eagles, Tasha Morgan etc.,
even a Zombie retainer or two?
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 8:58:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Michael wrote:
> > Master (15 cards)
> > 8 Proxy Kissed
>
> Maybe add a couple more, to make sure you get at least 1 or 2 at the
> start of the game.

That's all I own. But I'm usually pretty good with the deck down at 75
cards.

> > 1 Morgue Hunting Ground
> > 1 Acquired Ventrue Assets
>
> I'd loose these and put in Glass Walker Pact. It can have a huge
> effect, even if it lasts for only a few turns.

Don't own one.

> > 1 Dis Pater
>
> I'd recommend two Dis Pater. Getting it in play can make virtually
> every bleed action you take that much more threatening, without the
> need for any bleed mods in hand.

Only own one.

> Also consider a few cheap permanents to help you stop running out of
> steam; Ivory Bow, Brass Knuckles, Desert Eagles, Tasha Morgan etc.,
> even a Zombie retainer or two?

This is actually my second try at a Proxy Kissed deck. The first one
was a rush deck, and was focused more on the pot/nec weenies with a lot
of permanents. Unfortunately, I didn't have room in the deck for
stealth, so generally about half of my undirected actions got blocked.
That's fine for the combat, but it's a waste of a card and hurts my
play if I'm relying on those permanents. So this time the goal was to
have forward motion right out of the gate. It's already doing better -
earlier this week I took a vp and got down to a 3-way showdown that
almost went my way. So I'm leery about permanents. One or two may
sneak their way back in, but not a lot.
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 10:40:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

volya42@yahoo.com wrote:
> I heard there was some mention of this deck by others, so at their
> request I am posting it for further discussion here. Note that it's
> pretty darn master-light. I've found this to be critical with Proxy
> Kissed, at least when playing with smaller vamps. Comments?

What I've noticed when playing against it is that you tend to get
jammed up on red cards. I would suggest including a way to get into
combat other than getting blocked so you can cycle those cards whenever
you want. Ignacio Giovanni's huge, but you can influence him out while
fishing for Proxys, and he has +str, the right disciplines and a built
in rush.

> Reaction (4 cards)
> 4 Deflection

Wakes are freely cycleable. Do the Boris.

> Combat (32 cards)
> 2 Mercy for Seth

I think Dead Hand would be more useful in our group. Cheaper, too.
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 1:39:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

volya42@yahoo.com wrote:
> Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 10, Max: 20, Avg: 3.83)
> ----------------------------------------------
> 2 Vittorio Giovanni dom for nec pot 5 Giovanni
> 1 Paul DiCarlo pot 2 Giovanni
> 2 Gloria Giovanni nec DOM 4 Giovanni
> 1 Francesca Giovanni dom nec pot 4 Giovanni
> 2 Isabel Giovanni pot DOM NEC 5 Giovanni
> 1 Marciana Giovanni dom 2 Giovanni
> 2 Lia Milliner dom nec 3 Giovanni
> 1 Chas Giovanni Tello DOM POT 4 Giovanni

Reasonable crypt.

> Library: (75 cards)
> -------------------
> Master (15 cards)
> 8 Proxy Kissed
> 1 Morgue Hunting Ground
> 1 Acquired Ventrue Assets
> 4 Blood Doll
> 1 Dis Pater

The deck should probably be 90 cards. Especially with 15 Masters.

> Action (10 cards)
> 2 Sudario Refraction
> 7 Govern the Unaligned
> 1 Far Mastery

Good.

> Action Modifier (14 cards)
> 7 Threats
> 3 Dawn Operation
> 4 Foreshadowing Destruction

Reasonable.

> Reaction (4 cards)
> 4 Deflection

I'd probably put in more of these. And some Wakes, too.

> Combat (32 cards)
> 2 Mercy for Seth
> 7 Torn Signpost
> 4 Skin of Steel
> 4 Skin of Night
> 6 Soak
> 3 Earthshock
> 4 Taste of Vitae
> 2 Disarm

Immortal Grapple. As many as you can get a hold of.

-Peter
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 10:07:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

> To answer the other question from the other post, small deck size has
> been critical in cycling to the Proxy Kisseds. You'd think 8 was
> plenty, but I really need to have them in-hand and ready to go.

And at the same time you *don't* want them in hand when you don't have
pool for influencing out a 8-cap like Baldesar. Yeah, Proxy Kissed
works better with smaller crypts.
Thomasso Ghiberti (pot NEC, 4-capacity) seems to be made for it (for
NEC POT for 4 pool and 1 MPA/Master Slot, able to Torn + Grapple + Dead
Hand for 4 unpreventable-by-Fortitude damage... Nice).


We've
> been quite ally-heavy around here since KMW, which is the reason for
> the Far Mastery.

Ossians? Harzomatuiti? Samuel Height? Deviki Prasanta?


> Perfectionist is a great card, but I don't like having to care about a
> particular minion, and I expect to be blocked. Oddly enough, it seems
> like few people come get the Assets, and I'm always happy to block
> no-stealth actions. I think of it like a Life in the City in that I
> can use it immediately, but then it might be usable a few more times.

I'm always puzzled when someone remembers that Acquired can be burned.
But please don't beat on that subject too much - it's been nice to play
in an environment which ignores it most of the time ;) 


> Anyway, thanks for the comments. I'll keep eyeballing the combat to
> see how it might handle better with your tweaks.

The way I was playing this deck, the combat module was designed for the
punch-for-few-damage-prevent-all-Disarm angle, which was nice, and let
me some room to work around Dead Hand. But I was stupid enough to *not*
include some Graverobbings at the time. I guess all copies were
spattered in other decks...

best,

Fabio Sooner
Giovanni Newsletter Editor in absentia
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 11:59:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Fabio 'Sooner' Macedo wrote:
> > To answer the other question from the other post, small deck size has
> > been critical in cycling to the Proxy Kisseds. You'd think 8 was
> > plenty, but I really need to have them in-hand and ready to go.
>
> And at the same time you *don't* want them in hand when you don't have
> pool for influencing out a 8-cap like Baldesar. Yeah, Proxy Kissed
> works better with smaller crypts.

Fortunately, Eric isn't playing Baldesar in this deck, but is using a
smaller crypt, so he definitely wants to KEEP drawing them, too.

> We've
> > been quite ally-heavy around here since KMW, which is the reason for
> > the Far Mastery.
>
> Ossians? Harzomatuiti? Samuel Height? Deviki Prasanta?

Not so much the new werewolves. Deviki some, Carlton a lot, Zombies,
Mylan Horseed, a Renegade Garou deck, Procurers, etc etc. Wide range of
them.

> Fabio Sooner

-John Flournoy
Anonymous
September 10, 2005 7:01:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

John Flournoy escreveu:

> Fabio 'Sooner' Macedo wrote:
> > > To answer the other question from the other post, small deck size has
> > > been critical in cycling to the Proxy Kisseds. You'd think 8 was
> > > plenty, but I really need to have them in-hand and ready to go.
> >
> > And at the same time you *don't* want them in hand when you don't have
> > pool for influencing out a 8-cap like Baldesar. Yeah, Proxy Kissed
> > works better with smaller crypts.
>
> Fortunately, Eric isn't playing Baldesar in this deck, but is using a
> smaller crypt, so he definitely wants to KEEP drawing them, too.

Sure. I was just adding fuel to the fire on the small crypt size x
bigger crypt issue he was relating to. Unfortunately, the original
question about the crypt size wasn't included. Baldesar was mentioned
because it would be a considerable choice in a deck working around
Giovannis with [for] (using Proxy Kissed or not) and he is an 8-cap.
I've tried that myself. Don't recommend it, unless you're working with
some serious card (re?)cycling tech and Storage Annex.

It seems to me that the trick with Proxy Kissed is that you'd have to
use the card in multiples to get any serious profit from it. This leads
to a smaller crypt. Use just a few with a bigger crypt, and you're
almost better off using skill cards and/or Perfectionists (if you value
the extra blood). Use too much and you get hand jam. Use an average
quantity (say, 5) and you're as likely to draw it too late or too soon
as you are to draw it on the right timing.


> > We've
> > > been quite ally-heavy around here since KMW, which is the reason for
> > > the Far Mastery.
> >
> > Ossians? Harzomatuiti? Samuel Height? Deviki Prasanta?
>
> Not so much the new werewolves. Deviki some, Carlton a lot, Zombies,
> Mylan Horseed, a Renegade Garou deck, Procurers, etc etc. Wide range of
> them.

So it's not a trend directly related to anything released in KMW, then?
Interesting. I like Procurer a lot, specially when you recruit him with
a Perfectionist. Have still to build something to explore Deviki at her
fullest. Any idea?

best,

Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
!