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Summoned or Polymorphed Creatures Knowledge

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Anonymous
September 19, 2005 1:03:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

If you Summon a creature or use Polymorph Any Object to create a
sentient creature, what do they know? I assume they would have the
average intelligence for their race (probably a IN 10 for a human). But
what kind of data is in their heads? If I were to instruct them to clean
a room would they understand? Or is it just assumed that they speak one
language of the caster and have some sort of base level of knowledge?
Sort of a free level of Commoner or something similar...?

--
Tetsubo
My page: http://home.comcast.net/~tetsubo/
--------------------------------------
If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
-- Anatole France
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 9:24:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Tetsubo wrote:
> If you Summon a creature or use Polymorph Any Object to create a
> sentient creature, what do they know? I assume they would have the
> average intelligence for their race (probably a IN 10 for a human). But
> what kind of data is in their heads? If I were to instruct them to clean
> a room would they understand? Or is it just assumed that they speak one
> language of the caster and have some sort of base level of knowledge?
> Sort of a free level of Commoner or something similar...?
>

Rather than a class, treat a created human as a 1 HD humanoid and assign
it skill points based on its Hit Die. Otherwise, I'd assume they would
have any cultural/geographic knowledge surrounding the location of the
object you created the creature from (I'm assuming an object, and not
another creature, for example). There's an entry in the FAQ on what the
various Intelligence scores means, if that helps:

"I’d like to know just how intelligent a human character
with an Intelligence score of 3 is. What is the character’s
approximate IQ? Is the character considered mentally
handicapped or just slow? Can he carry a normal
conversation or does he have problems speaking?"

"A character with an Intelligence score of 3 is smarter that
most animals, but only barely. Any creature with an
Intelligence score of 3 or higher can understand at least one
language (see page 7 in the Monster Manual). A human with an
Intelligence score of 3 can speak Common but doesn’t have a
good vocabulary (perhaps a few hundred one- and two-syllable
words), and the character doesn’t have a good grasp of syntax
and grammar. The character speaks and understands only
simple subject-verb sentences and probably has problems with
things such as past and future tense.
Intelligence also affects memory and reasoning, so the
example character doesn’t have much of a head for facts, and
the character is not very good at arithmetic.
Ten points of IQ per point of Intelligence is a good rule of
thumb, so your example character has an IQ of about 30. How
others perceive and treat the example character depends on
social conditions in the campaign. Most cultures in a D&D
world are pretty tolerant—they have to be just so they can get
along in a place that contains the wide variety of creatures that
inhabit most D&D worlds. In such cultures, terms such as
“dull” and “slow” probably don’t get much use, at least in
respect to a person’s mental capacity. When your own
Intelligence is about average (10) you’re “slow” compared to a
dragon, beholder, mind flayer, or other creature that might live
right next door or lurk beyond the next valley. Still, elitism and
a sense of superiority can exist just about anywhere.
It is a good bet, however, that the example characters’
associates, relatives, and neighbors know the character’s mental
limitations, and that they adjust their expectations for that
character accordingly."
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 10:40:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Tetsubo wrote:
> If you Summon a creature or use Polymorph Any Object to create a
> sentient creature, what do they know? I assume they would have the
> average intelligence for their race (probably a IN 10 for a human).
> But what kind of data is in their heads? If I were to instruct them
> to clean a room would they understand? Or is it just assumed that
> they speak one language of the caster and have some sort of base
> level of knowledge? Sort of a free level of Commoner or something
> similar...?

Well, a summoned creature isn't created from thin air - it's an existing
creature brought in from somewhere else, typically another plane. It speaks
the languages it's listed as speaking in its Monster Manual entry, and knows
the things you'd expect a typical creature of that type and origin to know.

Polymorph Any Object makes no such assumptions. Turn a twig into a human and
he'll have sufficient instinctive knowledge to remember to breathe, but
that's about it.

--
Mark.
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Anonymous
September 19, 2005 10:40:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Mark Blunden wrote:

>Tetsubo wrote:
>
>
>> If you Summon a creature or use Polymorph Any Object to create a
>>sentient creature, what do they know? I assume they would have the
>>average intelligence for their race (probably a IN 10 for a human).
>>But what kind of data is in their heads? If I were to instruct them
>>to clean a room would they understand? Or is it just assumed that
>>they speak one language of the caster and have some sort of base
>>level of knowledge? Sort of a free level of Commoner or something
>>similar...?
>>
>>
>
>Well, a summoned creature isn't created from thin air - it's an existing
>creature brought in from somewhere else, typically another plane. It speaks
>the languages it's listed as speaking in its Monster Manual entry, and knows
>the things you'd expect a typical creature of that type and origin to know.
>
>
OK, I can buy that.

>Polymorph Any Object makes no such assumptions. Turn a twig into a human and
>he'll have sufficient instinctive knowledge to remember to breathe, but
>that's about it.
>
>
>
Doesn't that limit the usefulness of this spell just a *tad*? I
don't want to create a being with nothing but instinctive knowledge. I
want some sort of useful base knowledge. Was this the intent of the
spells author? In the spell description is gives a duration example of
turning a mouse into a manticore (lasts a week). So I end up with a
manticore that thinks it's a mouse? Since mice most often just run and
hide, that wouldn't seem very handy...

I think I might House Rule that the created being has a base
knowledge of an average intelligent member of their race and the skills
of a Commoner if a sentient, humanoid species. I want Insta-Servants! :) 

Though as is it might be useful to finally solve the Nurture vs.
Nature argument... :) 

--
Tetsubo
My page: http://home.comcast.net/~tetsubo/
--------------------------------------
If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
-- Anatole France
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 4:45:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Tetsubo wrote:
> Mark Blunden wrote:

>> Polymorph Any Object makes no such assumptions. Turn a twig into a
>> human and he'll have sufficient instinctive knowledge to remember to
>> breathe, but that's about it.
>>
>>
>>
> Doesn't that limit the usefulness of this spell just a *tad*? I
> don't want to create a being with nothing but instinctive knowledge. I
> want some sort of useful base knowledge. Was this the intent of the
> spells author? In the spell description is gives a duration example of
> turning a mouse into a manticore (lasts a week). So I end up with a
> manticore that thinks it's a mouse? Since mice most often just run and
> hide, that wouldn't seem very handy...
>
> I think I might House Rule that the created being has a base
> knowledge of an average intelligent member of their race and the
> skills of a Commoner if a sentient, humanoid species. I want
> Insta-Servants! :) 
>
> Though as is it might be useful to finally solve the Nurture vs.
> Nature argument... :) 

That was never really Polymorph Any Object's attraction for me. If I want a
powerful monster I'll summon one, or Planar Bind one. Polymorph Any Object
is more useful as an Extremely Baleful Polymorph, or if you need to have
just the right item for a task and don't have Fabricate handy.

--
Mark.
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 4:45:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Mark Blunden wrote:
> Tetsubo wrote:
>
>>Mark Blunden wrote:
>
>
>>>Polymorph Any Object makes no such assumptions. Turn a twig into a
>>>human and he'll have sufficient instinctive knowledge to remember to
>>>breathe, but that's about it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Doesn't that limit the usefulness of this spell just a *tad*? I
>>don't want to create a being with nothing but instinctive knowledge. I
>>want some sort of useful base knowledge. Was this the intent of the
>>spells author? In the spell description is gives a duration example of
>>turning a mouse into a manticore (lasts a week). So I end up with a
>>manticore that thinks it's a mouse? Since mice most often just run and
>>hide, that wouldn't seem very handy...
>>
>> I think I might House Rule that the created being has a base
>>knowledge of an average intelligent member of their race and the
>>skills of a Commoner if a sentient, humanoid species. I want
>>Insta-Servants! :) 
>>
>> Though as is it might be useful to finally solve the Nurture vs.
>>Nature argument... :) 
>
>
> That was never really Polymorph Any Object's attraction for me. If I want a
> powerful monster I'll summon one, or Planar Bind one. Polymorph Any Object
> is more useful as an Extremely Baleful Polymorph, or if you need to have
> just the right item for a task and don't have Fabricate handy.
>

Unless you're in an area where summoning doesn't work.
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 1:55:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Tetsubo wrote:
> Mark Blunden wrote:
>
> >Tetsubo wrote:
> >
> >
> >> If you Summon a creature or use Polymorph Any Object to create a
> >>sentient creature, what do they know? I assume they would have the
> >>average intelligence for their race (probably a IN 10 for a human).
> >>But what kind of data is in their heads? If I were to instruct them
> >>to clean a room would they understand? Or is it just assumed that
> >>they speak one language of the caster and have some sort of base
> >>level of knowledge? Sort of a free level of Commoner or something
> >>similar...?
> >>

> >Polymorph Any Object makes no such assumptions. Turn a twig into a human and
> >he'll have sufficient instinctive knowledge to remember to breathe, but
> >that's about it.
> >

I have to disagree with that. A human with a 10 Int automatically
knows how to speak and understand common. I'd say the'd be like an
amesia victim. They know how to speak and understand what you say, but
they don't 'remember' anything that came before. I'd probably put a
human as a commoner who hasn't spent his skills or feat yet (first
thing they do there their skill & feats go).

> >
> Doesn't that limit the usefulness of this spell just a *tad*? I
> don't want to create a being with nothing but instinctive knowledge. I
> want some sort of useful base knowledge. Was this the intent of the
> spells author? In the spell description is gives a duration example of
> turning a mouse into a manticore (lasts a week). So I end up with a
> manticore that thinks it's a mouse? Since mice most often just run and
> hide, that wouldn't seem very handy...

It doesn't change thier HD or HP either (other than through Con). A
mouse polymorphed into a manticore isn't going to be very useful, and
will be exceptionally easy to kill. It is going to act just like a
mouse, but with any improved int. If you happened to have trained that
mouse to attack before you can probably still get it to attack at
least, or any other tricks.

>
> I think I might House Rule that the created being has a base
> knowledge of an average intelligent member of their race and the skills
> of a Commoner if a sentient, humanoid species.

That is how it should be anyway.

> I want Insta-Servants! :) 

There's no reason a random mouse is going to obay anything you tell it
to do, unless it's been previously trained. This give you no
compulsion effects.

- Justisaur
!