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Advanced Helena Preview (spoiler)

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Anonymous
September 22, 2005 6:29:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Posted to
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=news&arti... today:

Helena (Advanced)
Toreador
Group 3
Capacity 10
dai obf pre tha AUS CEL DOM
Advanced. Independent: Helena pays no blood costs for reaction cards
that require Auspex or Dominate. Infernal.
(Merge): Helena is immune to damage from demons and gets one level of
Daimonion and Obtenebration.

--------------

-John Flournoy
Anonymous
September 23, 2005 1:52:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"John Flournoy" wrote:

>Posted to
> http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=news&arti... today:
>
> Helena (Advanced)
> Toreador
> Group 3
> Capacity 10
> dai obf pre tha AUS CEL DOM
> Advanced. Independent: Helena pays no blood costs for reaction cards
> that require Auspex or Dominate. Infernal.
> (Merge): Helena is immune to damage from demons and gets one level of
> Daimonion and Obtenebration.
>
> --------------

Thank you Robert, Scott, Oscar and company.
Now I can have this deck ready for our storyline event:


4x Helena
1x Helena (advanced)
2x Marcellus
2x Ira Rivers
3x Isabel de Leon


2x Art Museum
3x Blood Doll
Direct Intervention
Giant's Blood
Gift of Experience
Pentex Subversion
Powerbase: Chicago
The Rack
Smiling Jack, The Anarch
2x Toreador Grand Ball

2x Anima Gathering
Graverobbing
2x Magic of the Smith
2x Nose of the Hound

3x Forgotten Labyrinth

4x .44 Magnum
Bowl of Convergence
2x Flack Jacket
IR Goggles
Palatial Estate
Sire's Index Finger
Sport Bike

4x Eagle's Sight
2x Enhanced Senses
6x Telepathic Misdirection
6x Wake with Evening's Freshness

Mylan Horseed (Goblin)
Carlton Van Wyk (Hunter)

4x Aura Reading
6x Blur
4x Concealed Weapon
2x Conflagration
Fast Hands
4x Flash
4x Psyche!
2x Side Strike
4x Side Slip
4x Taste of Vitae


feedback?


Jay
Anonymous
September 23, 2005 9:16:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

I had the same idea seeing the advanced version of Helena.

But i cannot see, what your deck is really doing with the ADV Helena.
Is paying no cost for Telepathic Misdirection and two Conflagration
really worth to pay the infernal cost?

I was thinking about playing Helena ADV with Valerius, i.e. AUS and DAI.
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Anonymous
September 23, 2005 10:10:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

There are only a few cards Helena plays for free:
Burnt Offerings - still not worth playing
Deflection - neat!
Sins of the Cauchemar - eh, okay.
Telepathic Misdirection - nice :) 

Kindred Coercion - HA! This rules, give her a master and you are
set.

-johnmeier
September 23, 2005 10:21:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

johnmeier1 wrote:
> There are only a few cards Helena plays for free:
> Burnt Offerings - still not worth playing
> Deflection - neat!
> Sins of the Cauchemar - eh, okay.
> Telepathic Misdirection - nice :) 
>
> Kindred Coercion - HA! This rules, give her a master and you are
> set.
>
> -johnmeier

I would like to see some trick, which can't be done by 6-cap Tremere
with superior DOM and Ankara Citadel.

Helena is, as any other 10-cap without votes, pretty pathetic.
Anonymous
September 23, 2005 11:05:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

I see a nice little anarch revolt deck...

Helena Inferior can block all the vampires going anarch, and if someone
decides to call to burn the AR, she can play Kindred Coercion for
free...

Not much, but at least something. Prob not worth the infernal, though.
Anonymous
September 23, 2005 12:24:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

<x5mofr@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:1127477777.957967.234060@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I had the same idea seeing the advanced version of Helena.

What idea is that?
Anonymous
September 23, 2005 1:30:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Frederick Scott wrote:

> Hmmm. That's an interesting point. When playing under such text wording
> on a vampire card, can you set X to be anything you want and pay nothing?
> Or does that fact that Advanced Helena's card text forces her to pay zero
> blood mean that X must always be zero when Helena plays the card?
>
> I suppose the former does sound more likely but I'm not sure.

Isn't there a Dragos precident that solves this question--like, I'm
pretty sure it has been determined that he can prevent infinite damage
with Hidden Strength, say.

-Peter
Anonymous
September 23, 2005 1:43:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

EzekielMoerdyk@gmail.com wrote:
> I see a nice little anarch revolt deck...

> Helena Inferior can block all the vampires going anarch, and if someone
> decides to call to burn the AR, she can play Kindred Coercion for
> free...

> Not much, but at least something. Prob not worth the infernal, though.

Why not worth the Infernal?
If you give her an intercept permanent or two, and a Rack, then you'll
rarely (if ever) have to untap her during your turn.
Anonymous
September 23, 2005 2:56:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

> I would like to see some trick, which can't be done by 6-cap Tremere
> with superior DOM and Ankara Citadel.
>
> Helena is, as any other 10-cap without votes, pretty pathetic.

You underestimate the value of say, being anarch. Helena is a *beautiful*
vampire for anarchness.

And she packs a punch without any setup with respect to your 6 cap example
anyway. Also. . . how many 6 cap Tremere have all superiors?

Just a thought.

Ankur Gupta
Prince of West Lafayette
Anonymous
September 23, 2005 4:37:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

John Flournoy wrote:
> Helena (Advanced)
> Toreador
> Group 3
> Capacity 10
> dai obf pre tha AUS CEL DOM
> Advanced. Independent: Helena pays no blood costs for reaction cards
> that require Auspex or Dominate. Infernal.
> (Merge): Helena is immune to damage from demons and gets one level of
> Daimonion and Obtenebration.

Merged Helena sure makes Abyssal Hunter more appealing.
Anonymous
September 23, 2005 5:49:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

> Merged Helena sure makes Abyssal Hunter more appealing

Does Conflagration (1R agg) burn the Abyssal Hunter if used at close
range?

Ira
Anonymous
September 23, 2005 7:26:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

x5mofr@gmx.de wrote:
> I had the same idea seeing the advanced version of Helena.
>
> But i cannot see, what your deck is really doing with the ADV Helena.
> Is paying no cost for Telepathic Misdirection and two Conflagration
> really worth to pay the infernal cost?
>
> I was thinking about playing Helena ADV with Valerius, i.e. AUS and DAI.
>

If you suspect people to vote, well, a few Kindred Coercion to change
the votes of, let's say, 500 vampires could come in handy.

Sten During
Anonymous
September 23, 2005 7:26:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Sten During" <yappo@netg.se> wrote in message
news:4334028c$0$49018$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...
> x5mofr@gmx.de wrote:
>> I had the same idea seeing the advanced version of Helena.
....
> If you suspect people to vote, well, a few Kindred Coercion to change
> the votes of, let's say, 500 vampires could come in handy.

Hmmm. That's an interesting point. When playing under such text wording
on a vampire card, can you set X to be anything you want and pay nothing?
Or does that fact that Advanced Helena's card text forces her to pay zero
blood mean that X must always be zero when Helena plays the card?

I suppose the former does sound more likely but I'm not sure.

Fred
Anonymous
September 23, 2005 7:26:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Frederick Scott <nospam@no.spam.dot.com> wrote:

> "Sten During" <yappo@netg.se> wrote in message
> news:4334028c$0$49018$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...
> > x5mofr@gmx.de wrote:
> >> I had the same idea seeing the advanced version of Helena.
> ...
> > If you suspect people to vote, well, a few Kindred Coercion to change
> > the votes of, let's say, 500 vampires could come in handy.

> Hmmm. That's an interesting point. When playing under such text wording
> on a vampire card, can you set X to be anything you want and pay nothing?
> Or does that fact that Advanced Helena's card text forces her to pay zero
> blood mean that X must always be zero when Helena plays the card?

X can be anything.
Just ask Dragos with a fortitude skill card, playing Hidden Strength.
Anonymous
September 23, 2005 7:44:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

LSJ wrote:
> ira212@gmail.com wrote:
> > Does Conflagration (1R agg) burn the Abyssal Hunter if used at close
> > range?
>
> Card text:
> "Burn the hunter if any ranged aggravated damage is done to him, even if it is
> prevented."
>

to clarify:

>LSJ 5 Sep. 2002 16:37
>Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad
>Von: LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com>

>Guru wrote:
>> Are "ranged" and "usable at long range" interchangeable?

>Yes.

>--
>LSJ (vtes...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
>Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
>http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Anonymous
September 23, 2005 8:18:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

<x5mofr@gmx.de> wrote:

> I had the same idea seeing the advanced version of Helena.
>
> But i cannot see, what your deck is really doing with the ADV Helena.
> Is paying no cost for Telepathic Misdirection and two Conflagration
> really worth to pay the infernal cost?


You are right. It's not the best plan ever. It might be cool
for Storyline play. I will add a Contagion, and I may choose
to never pay the infernal cost.


> I was thinking about playing Helena ADV with Valerius, i.e. AUS and DAI.


sounds like good, satanic blocking fun.


Jay
Anonymous
September 23, 2005 8:28:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Hello LSJ,

> > Does Conflagration (1R agg) burn the Abyssal Hunter if used at close
> > range?
>
> Card text:
> "Burn the hunter if any ranged aggravated damage is done to him, even if it is
> prevented."

Thanks for the quick response. I realize that the card text is already
clear to you, and perhaps you suspected I didn't read the card text,
didn't search google, or didn't spend sufficient time considering the
card text. I'm sure you get many questioners who fall into that
category (I do sometimes as well.)

In this case though, I did all those things and I'm still confused, so
posting the card text didn't help me any.* I know you answer many
posts a day, but perhaps you would consider including "yes" or "no" in
addition to the card text (if it's a yes/no question.)

My specific point of confusion, which I should have been more clear
about in my question (and posted the card text myself, to demonstrate
that I had already read it), is whether or not 1R agg damage is
considered "ranged agg" even if inflicted at close range.

*But... perhaps I hadn't *really* thought about my own question enough.
Your answer spurred me to look more, and Darkling Trickery is a good
parallel case. DT would still prevent damage from a gun shot at close
range, so I think that the Hunter would still burn if the ranged agg is
inflicted at close range.

Thanks, LSJ! :) 

Ira
Anonymous
September 24, 2005 1:03:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

ira212@gmail.com wrote:
> Does Conflagration (1R agg) burn the Abyssal Hunter if used at close
> range?

Card text:
"Burn the hunter if any ranged aggravated damage is done to him, even if it is
prevented."


--
LSJ (vtesrepSPAM@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (remove spam trap to reply)
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Anonymous
September 24, 2005 12:22:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Alias" <ransom.stark@seznam.cz> writes:

> Helena is, as any other 10-cap without votes, pretty pathetic.

Not as pathetic as Enkidu, an 11-cap without votes. ;-)


--
hg@ "If you can't offend part of your audience,
iki.fi there is no point in being an artist at all." -Hakim Bey
Anonymous
September 24, 2005 8:16:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On 23 Sep 2005 09:30:07 -0700, <pdb6@lightlink.com> wrote:

>
> Frederick Scott wrote:
>
>> Hmmm. That's an interesting point. When playing under such text
>> wording
>> on a vampire card, can you set X to be anything you want and pay
>> nothing?
>> Or does that fact that Advanced Helena's card text forces her to pay
>> zero
>> blood mean that X must always be zero when Helena plays the card?
>>
>> I suppose the former does sound more likely but I'm not sure.
>
> Isn't there a Dragos precident that solves this question--like, I'm
> pretty sure it has been determined that he can prevent infinite damage
> with Hidden Strength, say.

I don't think he can prevent more damage than he is actually taking,
though. So that kind of limits the possible prevention to around
900 damage in one playing of the card.

--
Bye,

Daneel
Anonymous
September 24, 2005 8:54:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

> Want to have more fun?
> Let Helena host the Toreador Grand Ball. She'll cost you a pool to untap
> anyway, so you could at least get another Toreador unblockable to offset
> that cost, and of course, you DO get to untap her. Don't we just love
> infernal Toreadors? :) 
>

I'd love Infernal Masika more.
Anonymous
September 24, 2005 9:33:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Daneel wrote:
> On 23 Sep 2005 09:30:07 -0700, <pdb6@lightlink.com> wrote:
>> Isn't there a Dragos precident that solves this question--like, I'm
>> pretty sure it has been determined that he can prevent infinite damage
>> with Hidden Strength, say.
>
> I don't think he can prevent more damage than he is actually taking,
> though. So that kind of limits the possible prevention to around
> 900 damage in one playing of the card.

Dragos can choose X to be 10,000,000,000,000,000 if he likes.
He can only play Hidden Strength if there is damage to prevent, but
when playing it, he chooses whatever X he likes.

Just like when Arika takes 1 damage, she can spend 11 on Hidden
Strength to prevent 12 damage.

Or when Arika takes 1 damage, she can prevent it with Soak
(preventing 2 or 4 damage).


--
LSJ (vtesrepSPAM@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (remove spam trap to reply)
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Anonymous
September 25, 2005 12:54:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Frederick Scott wrote:
> "Sten During" <yappo@netg.se> wrote in message
> news:4334028c$0$49018$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...
>
>>x5mofr@gmx.de wrote:
>>
>>>I had the same idea seeing the advanced version of Helena.
>
> ...
>
>>If you suspect people to vote, well, a few Kindred Coercion to change
>>the votes of, let's say, 500 vampires could come in handy.
>
>
> Hmmm. That's an interesting point. When playing under such text wording


Want to have more fun?
Let Helena host the Toreador Grand Ball. She'll cost you a pool to untap
anyway, so you could at least get another Toreador unblockable to offset
that cost, and of course, you DO get to untap her. Don't we just love
infernal Toreadors? :) 

Sten During
Anonymous
September 25, 2005 10:04:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:33:26 GMT, LSJ <vtesrepSPAM@TRAPwhite-wolf.com>
wrote:

> Daneel wrote:
>> On 23 Sep 2005 09:30:07 -0700, <pdb6@lightlink.com> wrote:
>>> Isn't there a Dragos precident that solves this question--like, I'm
>>> pretty sure it has been determined that he can prevent infinite damage
>>> with Hidden Strength, say.
>>
>> I don't think he can prevent more damage than he is actually taking,
>> though. So that kind of limits the possible prevention to around
>> 900 damage in one playing of the card.
>
> Dragos can choose X to be 10,000,000,000,000,000 if he likes.
> He can only play Hidden Strength if there is damage to prevent, but
> when playing it, he chooses whatever X he likes.
>
> Just like when Arika takes 1 damage, she can spend 11 on Hidden
> Strength to prevent 12 damage.
>
> Or when Arika takes 1 damage, she can prevent it with Soak
> (preventing 2 or 4 damage).

I see. Thanks for clarifying!

--
Bye,

Daneel
!