Eberron artificers in fiction

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

What characters in popular fiction (books, movies, whatever) are
artificers (as in Eberron), in the same sense in which Merlin is a
wizard, Conan a barbarian, and Aragorn a ranger?

That is, I'm not looking for a match in abilities (Merlin doesn't
actually cast fireballs and Aragorn cannot command plants to entangle
his foes), but more in... y'know, the general feel of the character, the
thing that makes a newbie player say "I want to play Gandalf!" and point
at the wizard or "I want to play Lancelot!" and point at the paladin.

I know it's a rather vague question, but feel free to give vague
answers.


--
Jasin Zujovic
jzujovic@inet.hr

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Repent Werebat!" said the Ticktockman. "Get Stuffed!" Werebat replied.
Then he added:

>
>
> Jasin Zujovic wrote:
>> What characters in popular fiction (books, movies, whatever) are
>> artificers (as in Eberron), in the same sense in which Merlin is a
>> wizard, Conan a barbarian, and Aragorn a ranger?
>
> Various gnomelike characters, like the fellow from "Neverending
> Story".
>

MacGuyver.
The mechanic in Tale Spin.
Q.


--
Billy Yank

Quinn: "I'm saying it's us, or them."
Murphy: "Well I choose them."
Q: "That's NOT an option!"
M: "Then you shouldn't have framed it as one."
-Sealab 2021

Billy Yank's Baldur's Gate Photo Portraits
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze2xvw6/

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Jasin Zujovic wrote:
> What characters in popular fiction (books, movies, whatever) are
> artificers (as in Eberron), in the same sense in which Merlin is a
> wizard, Conan a barbarian, and Aragorn a ranger?
>
> That is, I'm not looking for a match in abilities (Merlin doesn't
> actually cast fireballs and Aragorn cannot command plants to entangle
> his foes), but more in... y'know, the general feel of the character, the
> thing that makes a newbie player say "I want to play Gandalf!" and point
> at the wizard or "I want to play Lancelot!" and point at the paladin.
>
> I know it's a rather vague question, but feel free to give vague
> answers.

Vulcan, Ilmarinen (Finnish Kalevala), Dr. Arliss Loveless (Wild Wild
West), Dr. Frankenstein, Celebrimbor, Aule, Sauron,
Feanor(Tolkien),Augra, Dark Crystal, Dr. Jeckyll, and I'm sure I'll
think of more later.

Hmm. Most of these are either misguided or downright evil. Probably
just a side effect of the cautionary anti-industry tales that mad
scientists usually appear in. I'll have to see if I can come up with
any good-guy artificers.

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <1127224098.086181.312300@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
quuxa23@yahoo.com says...

> > What characters in popular fiction (books, movies, whatever) are
> > artificers (as in Eberron), in the same sense in which Merlin is a
> > wizard, Conan a barbarian, and Aragorn a ranger?
> >
> > That is, I'm not looking for a match in abilities (Merlin doesn't
> > actually cast fireballs and Aragorn cannot command plants to entangle
> > his foes), but more in... y'know, the general feel of the character, the
> > thing that makes a newbie player say "I want to play Gandalf!" and point
> > at the wizard or "I want to play Lancelot!" and point at the paladin.
> >
> > I know it's a rather vague question, but feel free to give vague
> > answers.
>
> Ilmarinen (Finnish Kalevala),

Don't know Kalevala, sadly... I keep telling myself I should read
something, but never get around to it.

> Dr. Arliss Loveless (Wild Wild West),

This is an excellent example, yes.

> Celebrimbor, Aule, Sauron, Feanor(Tolkien),

Not sure about these. The most obvious parallel with the class is that
those four were all better at using magic to create stuff than create
effects, but I think that's more of a characteristic of Tolkien's magic
in general than of the characters themselves. Looking at the artificer
class, the main vibe I get is a use-what-works, fast-and-loose, jury-
rigging approach to item creation and magic in general: use magic
device, spell storing item infusion, metamagic spell trigger...

I'm not sure the four above represent that very well. To me they feel
more like sorcerers with item creation feats that simply don't cast
their spells.

> Hmm. Most of these are either misguided or downright evil. Probably
> just a side effect of the cautionary anti-industry tales that mad
> scientists usually appear in.

That's a very interesting observation: the best examples of artificers
in fiction indeed seem to be those characters that are commonly thought
of as mad scientists: Loveless, Jekyll, Frankenstein...

> I'll have to see if I can come up with any good-guy artificers.

Post if you do!


--
Jasin Zujovic
jzujovic@inet.hr

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Jasin Zujovic wrote:
> In article <1127224098.086181.312300@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> quuxa23@yahoo.com says...
>
>
> > Celebrimbor, Aule, Sauron, Feanor(Tolkien),
>
> Not sure about these. The most obvious parallel with the class is that
> those four were all better at using magic to create stuff than create
> effects, but I think that's more of a characteristic of Tolkien's magic
> in general than of the characters themselves. Looking at the artificer
> class, the main vibe I get is a use-what-works, fast-and-loose, jury-
> rigging approach to item creation and magic in general: use magic
> device, spell storing item infusion, metamagic spell trigger...
>

Ok, it's not fantasy per se, but what about the pulp scientist? Dex
from Sky Captain springs to mind as a good-guy artificer archetype.

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Doc Brown from the Back to the Future movies.

Steamboy, and/or his father.

Amsel from the book Dragonworld.

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 09:30:55 -0400, Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> scribed
into the ether:

>
>
>Billy Yank wrote:
>> "Repent Werebat!" said the Ticktockman. "Get Stuffed!" Werebat replied.
>> Then he added:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Jasin Zujovic wrote:
>>>
>>>>What characters in popular fiction (books, movies, whatever) are
>>>>artificers (as in Eberron), in the same sense in which Merlin is a
>>>>wizard, Conan a barbarian, and Aragorn a ranger?
>>>
>>>Various gnomelike characters, like the fellow from "Neverending
>>>Story".
>>>
>>
>>
>> MacGuyver.
>
>Hmm.
>
>
>> The mechanic in Tale Spin.
>
>Pete Puma, IIRC.
>
>
>> Q.
>
>Q is a deity.

I refuse to believe that the universe is so badly run as to make Q a god.

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

quuxa23@yahoo.com wrote:
> Jasin Zujovic wrote:
>
>> What characters in popular fiction (books, movies, whatever) are
>> artificers (as in Eberron), in the same sense in which Merlin is a
>> wizard, Conan a barbarian, and Aragorn a ranger?
>
<snip>
>
<snip Evil artificers>

A few from comic books:

The original Lex Luthor
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lex_Luthor#Original_Luthor).

> Hmm. Most of these are either misguided or downright evil. Probably
> just a side effect of the cautionary anti-industry tales that mad
> scientists usually appear in. I'll have to see if I can come up with
> any good-guy artificers.

Mr. Fantastic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mister_Fantastic).
Forge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forge_%28comics%29).
Dr. Henry "Hank" Pym (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ant-Man).


Arivne

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <7z%Xe.13038$nq.2380@lakeread05>, ranpoirier@cox.net says...

> > Doc Brown from the Back to the Future movies.
> >
> > Steamboy, and/or his father.
> >
> > Amsel from the book Dragonworld.
>
> Oo! Oo!
>
> Sabriel's son Sam, in _Lirael_ and _Abhorsen_.
>
> Actually, he's an excellent example of a *good* artificer.

Hmmm... I saw that book in a store the other day, and remembered you
mentioning it. If it also has good artificers, I just might get it.

What's the book like in general?

How close is the artificer guy to the D&D artificer?


--
Jasin Zujovic
jzujovic@inet.hr

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:29:21 -0400, Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net>
carved upon a tablet of ether:

> The second and third books are really two halves of one story, which
> primarily centers on Sabriel's son Sam (studying to be the new Abhorsen)
> and a daughter of the Clayr, an all-female bloodline of mystics who live
> in a glacier and can see the future. In actuality, both Sam and the
> Clayr girl (I think her name is Umbriel) are deviants because they are
> the products of mixed bloodlines (rather like aberrant dragonmarks
> without the magic tattoos).

There's a fourth book out now. I don't know what it's like or about,
though - it's waiting at my local bookstore for me to have some spare
cash.

BTW, I think the girl's name is Lirael.

--
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
"Just because the truth will set you free doesn't mean the truth itself
should be free."

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

jcharpak@att.net <jcharpak@att.net> wrote:
>Werebat wrote:
>> Billy Yank wrote:

>> > Q.

>> Q is a deity.

>Pay attention 007! He's obviously refering to the head of the Q
>division which makes the various toys that the "double o's" use on
>their missions.

I figured that's who Ron was talking about, too. No way is that
twit on TNG even close to deity-hood.

As for other artificers, if I'm understanding the concept right,
I can point to a few non-D&D RPG examples.

Unknown Armies has a bunch of cool/weird/creepy magic systems,
and is worth buying just to read through the magic and setting
material alone. There's one branch of magic whose name I forget,
but it concerns making machines. You can make little doodads,
extremely useful gadgets, all the way up to human-appearing
androids, some of whom might not realize they're machines. UA
magic uses charges, minor, moderate and major, I think, and
the way the machine mages generate charges is to give up
memories. The memory of taking the woman you love out for a
nice dinner and a movie might get you a minor charge, the
memory of your wedding might be moderate, and giving up all
memory of her altogether might possibly be enough for a major
charge. Major charges are big juju, so they're not easy to
get. Obviously, this kind of thing is a role-playing restriction
more than just numbers, so it's definitely open for abuse. I
don't know how it'd work in an actual game, but man does that
book make for good reading.

Another RPG with mad scientists and their creations is called
I think Underworld. It was a pretty small print run, I think,
so lots of people probably haven't heard of it. It's about
normal humans and magical/supertech beings living underneath
the streets of New York City. If you remember the old TV
show Beauty and the Beast, you've got a good handle on
the setting, and it was an admitted influence on the game
designers. Some players can be mad scientists who come
up with all types of contraptions. I don't remember much
about the game, but it too was a nice read for anyone
interested.

Finally, there's Castle Falkenstein, which in my opinion
is one of the coolest damned games out there. Think Victorian
Europe in which Captain Nemo and the Nautilus exist alongside
Jules Verne, and Sherlock Holmes alongside Arthur Conan Doyle.
There's lots of magic around, too, in the form of dragons and
faerie and human mages. Plenty of cool steam-tech to play
with, too. It's just a great setting and well worth buying
if you're at all intrigued by the premise. It's a beautiful
book, too, with lots of full color pages. Highly recommended.

Pete

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Peter Meilinger wrote:

> jcharpak@att.net <jcharpak@att.net> wrote:
>
>>Werebat wrote:
>>
>>>Billy Yank wrote:
>
>
>>>>Q.
>
>
>>>Q is a deity.
>
>
>>Pay attention 007! He's obviously refering to the head of the Q
>>division which makes the various toys that the "double o's" use on
>>their missions.
>
>
> I figured that's who Ron was talking about, too. No way is that
> twit on TNG even close to deity-hood.

He's a twit, sure, but there is no denying that he has deific power.
Maybe not a greater god, but a demigod at least.

I hadn't thought of the 007 Q, who I could see as more of a gadgeteer.

- Ron ^*^

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> wrote in news:8wlYe.49643$Cc5.32970
@lakeread06:

>
>
> Peter Meilinger wrote:
>
>> jcharpak@att.net <jcharpak@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Werebat wrote:
>>>
>>>>Billy Yank wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>Q.
>>
>>
>>>>Q is a deity.
>>
>>
>>>Pay attention 007! He's obviously refering to the head of the Q
>>>division which makes the various toys that the "double o's" use on
>>>their missions.
>>
>>
>> I figured that's who Ron was talking about, too. No way is that
>> twit on TNG even close to deity-hood.
>
> He's a twit, sure, but there is no denying that he has deific power.
> Maybe not a greater god, but a demigod at least.

Q's power level is MUCH greater than a D&D demigod. He can destroy
entire species on a whim, move moons, go back before the Big Bang, give
the powers of a Q to a human, and generally change reality without
hardly any effort at all. He's at overdiety level IMO; only other Qs can
cause him trouble.


--
"Replace 'invalid' with 'net' to reply"

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Billy Yank wrote:
> "Repent !" said the Ticktockman. "Get Stuffed!" replied. Then he added:
>
<snip list of Good Guy comic book artificers>
>
> What was the name of that guy from Alpha Flight? The one who could
> telekinetically build machines.

Madison Jeffries.

http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/b/boxiv.htm

"Known Superhuman Powers: Madison Jeffries possesses psionic powers
that can affect metal, plastic, and glass. He can psionically levitate
objects made of any of these three substances. Jeffries can psionically
rearrange parts of machinery into various forms, and he is particularly
skilled at psionically restructuring machinery into duplicating the
form and functions of parts of the human body. Jeffries can also
psionically manipulate metal on the atomic and molecular levels."


Arivne