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Who uses Graffiti 1 and Graffiti 2

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July 2, 2005 10:31:09 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

As above. Graffiti 1 are the old birds. Also hor, southpaws not used to
Graffiti 2. Cannot create poll so have to work around:

Graffiti 1
1. sigh

Graffiti 2
1.


--
dave
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More about : graffiti graffiti

Anonymous
July 3, 2005 12:33:05 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

dave wrote:
> As above. Graffiti 1 are the old birds. Also hor, southpaws not used to
> Graffiti 2. Cannot create poll so have to work around:
>
> Graffiti 1
> 1. sigh
>
> Graffiti 2
> 1.
>
>
> --
> dave

WHAT??
No clue what you are talking about!
July 3, 2005 1:29:30 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

For Graffit 1 by far.

Graffiti 1
1. sigh
2. jc
Related resources
Can't find your answer ? Ask !
Anonymous
July 3, 2005 11:59:12 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"dave" <Mat.col@aol.com> wrote in message
news:D ave.1rkaak@no-mx.forums.micromagiclabs.com...
> As above.

"As above." what? Are you assuming the subject line appears above the message
in all news readers? I suppose it does in most of them, so probably a fair
assumption.

> Graffiti 1 are the old birds. Also hor, southpaws not used
> to Graffiti 2. Cannot create poll so have to work around:

Both.

Had (still have) a Palm Pilot Pro for many years. I still use it for software
testing, from time to time.

Last Christmas replaced it with a Zire 71 then a few months ago a 72s.

- Bill
Anonymous
July 3, 2005 2:46:24 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 07:59:12 -0400, "Bill Leary" <Bill_Leary@msn.com>
wrote:

>"dave" <Mat.col@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:D ave.1rkaak@no-mx.forums.micromagiclabs.com...
>> As above.
>
>"As above." what? Are you assuming the subject line appears above the message
>in all news readers? I suppose it does in most of them, so probably a fair
>assumption.
>
>> Graffiti 1 are the old birds. Also hor, southpaws not used
>> to Graffiti 2. Cannot create poll so have to work around:
>
>Both.
>
>Had (still have) a Palm Pilot Pro for many years. I still use it for software
>testing, from time to time.
>
>Last Christmas replaced it with a Zire 71 then a few months ago a 72s.

I replaced Graffiti 2 with Graffiti 1 on my Clie TH-55 quite a while
ago. It's easy to do. If you search Google for "replace graffiti 2 2
palm" you'll find a number of places to tell you how.
Anonymous
July 3, 2005 4:23:05 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"Mike Koenecke" <mkoenecke@spamhole.com> wrote in message
news:002gc15bjo4arn6hlggq3d37jsiiu0v096@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 07:59:12 -0400, "Bill Leary" <Bill_Leary@msn.com>
> wrote:
> >Both.
> >
> >Had (still have) a Palm Pilot Pro for many years. I still use it for
software
> >testing, from time to time.
> >
> >Last Christmas replaced it with a Zire 71 then a few months ago a 72s.
>
> I replaced Graffiti 2 with Graffiti 1 on my Clie TH-55 quite a while
> ago. It's easy to do. If you search Google for "replace graffiti 2 2
> palm" you'll find a number of places to tell you how.

I suppose I could, but I've pretty much adjusted to it now. The only thing that
keeps catching me is the letter T. I keep making T's when I want an L and a
space.

- Bill
Anonymous
July 3, 2005 7:31:46 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

I use Graffiti 1. Replaced 2 on my Garmin.

All PPC devices support Graffiti 1.

Dale

dave wrote:

> As above. Graffiti 1 are the old birds. Also hor, southpaws not used to
> Graffiti 2. Cannot create poll so have to work around:
>
> Graffiti 1
> 1. sigh
>
> Graffiti 2
> 1.
>
>

--
_ _ Dale DePriest
/`) _ // http://users.cwnet.com/dalede
o/_/ (_(_X_(` For GPS and GPS/PDAs
Anonymous
July 3, 2005 9:49:18 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

dave <Mat.col@aol.com> writes:

> Graffiti 1
> 1. sigh
>
> Graffiti 2
> 1.

MessageEase:
1. vuori

(-;

Graffiti 1 is nicer by far compared to 2, though (used a Pilot Pro
for years, still works but now lives in the graveyard pile).

-v
Anonymous
July 3, 2005 10:37:18 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Sat 02 Jul 2005 03:31:09p, dave, wrote:

>
> As above. Graffiti 1 are the old birds. Also hor, southpaws not used to
> Graffiti 2. Cannot create poll so have to work around:
>
> Graffiti 1
> 1. sigh
>
> Graffiti 2
> 1.

Graffiti 1. I think I could get used to Graffiti 2 if I worked at it long
enough.

--
RonB
"There's a story there...somewhere"
Anonymous
July 3, 2005 10:42:28 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

dave <Mat.col@aol.com> wrote:

> As above. Graffiti 1 are the old birds. Also hor, southpaws not used to
> Graffiti 2. Cannot create poll so have to work around:

G2 plus Thinkoutside bluetooth keyboard. For some accentuated characters
G2 actually is as fast as the multiple keypresses needed on the keyboard
(but not for normal typing)

Hervé

--
Frédérique & Hervé Sainct, h.sainct@laposte.net [fr,es,en,it]
Frédérique's initial is missing in front of the above address
l'initiale de Frédérique manque devant l'adresse email ci-dessus
July 4, 2005 6:51:59 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

I prefer Graffiti 1, but use G2 since it came with my T|E.

If the suggested methods to convert back to Graffiti 1 will work, I'll
convert.

- Dugie

"dave" <Mat.col@aol.com> wrote in message
news:D ave.1rkaak@no-mx.forums.micromagiclabs.com...
>
> As above. Graffiti 1 are the old birds. Also hor, southpaws not used
to
> Graffiti 2. Cannot create poll so have to work around:
>
> Graffiti 1
> 1. sigh
>
> Graffiti 2
> 1.
Anonymous
July 4, 2005 8:50:54 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"Dugie" <d_fren@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:

>I prefer Graffiti 1, but use G2 since it came with my T|E.
>
>If the suggested methods to convert back to Graffiti 1 will work, I'll
>convert.

It works fine on both my TE and Zire 72.
Here is the first link I found tonight where you can get it:

http://www.zansstuff.com/palm.html
Anonymous
July 4, 2005 11:49:32 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

It was a time of great turmoil. The strong preyed on the weak, dogs
and cats lived together. One voice cried out in the wilderness: dave
<Mat.col@aol.com> wrote in
<dave.1rkaak@no-mx.forums.micromagiclabs.com>:
>
> As above. Graffiti 1 are the old birds. Also hor, southpaws not used to
> Graffiti 2. Cannot create poll so have to work around:
>
I've used both. Since I've moved to a LifeDrive which doesn't seem to
work with the old Graffiti 1 libraries, I'm stuck with and finally
getting used to Graffiti 2.

Generally speaking, Graffiti 1 is faster for simple writing (just
letters and numbers) but G2 is easier to learn because its strokes
resemble actual handwriting more closely. G2 automatically capitalizes
letters that are written on the border between the number and letter
parts of the Graffiti area, a feat which requires a third-party add-on
if you are using G1. Also, many characters which require a punctuation
stroke in G1, can be performed with only one stroke in G2 --
specifically, parentheses and the ampersand (@) can be written with
only one stroke in G2 and I use them enough that this is a great time
saver for me. On the other hand, some characters require as many as
four strokes (quotation marks for example) to be entered with G2. G2
also includes copy, cut, and paste strokes (although I find that there
are at least three G2 characters which can easily be confused with the
paste stroke) which is a nice touch.

So all in all, I'd say it's pretty much a wash. G1 will usually be
faster but G2 is so easy to use that I'm comfortable with either one.

--
Roberto Castillo
robertocastillo@ameritech.net
http://www.freewebs.com/robertocastillo/
July 5, 2005 5:18:28 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"AaronJ" <noemail@noemail.com> wrote in message
news:enfhc155bc2gasoon28rtsp7gksgl882re@4ax.com...
> "Dugie" <d_fren@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >I prefer Graffiti 1, but use G2 since it came with my T|E.
> >
> >If the suggested methods to convert back to Graffiti 1 will work,
I'll
> >convert.
>
> It works fine on both my TE and Zire 72.
> Here is the first link I found tonight where you can get it:
>
> http://www.zansstuff.com/palm.html

Thanks. I found the same link last night. Backed up my Palm, then tried
the "No_Card\" method, followed directions, and my T|E locked. Had to
hard reset. Maybe the other method will work, if I get around to it.

Dugie
Anonymous
July 5, 2005 11:12:57 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"Dugie" <d_fren@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in news:Edlye.56869$Ph4.1657585
@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca:

> "AaronJ" <noemail@noemail.com> wrote in message
> news:enfhc155bc2gasoon28rtsp7gksgl882re@4ax.com...
>> "Dugie" <d_fren@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >I prefer Graffiti 1, but use G2 since it came with my T|E.
>> >
>> >If the suggested methods to convert back to Graffiti 1 will work,
> I'll
>> >convert.
>>
>> It works fine on both my TE and Zire 72.
>> Here is the first link I found tonight where you can get it:
>>
>> http://www.zansstuff.com/palm.html
>
> Thanks. I found the same link last night. Backed up my Palm, then tried
> the "No_Card\" method, followed directions, and my T|E locked. Had to
> hard reset. Maybe the other method will work, if I get around to it.

Since no-one else mentioned it, I'll put in a word for Tealscript. I've
been using it to stick with G1 strokes it since moving from a M505 to a TT,
and now on a T3, and I've been very happy with it. It's not free, but it's
not expensive either, it is supported and it avoids the sort of messing
around described above.

No connections other than as a satisfied user....

Jeremy
July 5, 2005 11:33:53 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 18:31:09 -0300, dave <Mat.col@aol.com> wrote:

>
>As above. Graffiti 1 are the old birds. Also hor, southpaws not used to
>Graffiti 2. Cannot create poll so have to work around:
>
>Graffiti 1
>1. sigh
>
>Graffiti 2
>1.

1. another vote for Tealscript. I had problems with the alt. methods to
revert on my T/E.
Anonymous
July 5, 2005 10:20:58 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"Jeremy Mortimer" <mortimer@ifrc.remove_this.org> wrote in message
news:Xns968A5DBFE491Dmortimerifrcorg@140.99.99.130...
> "Dugie" <d_fren@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in news:Edlye.56869$Ph4.1657585
> @ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca:
>
>> "AaronJ" <noemail@noemail.com> wrote in message
>> news:enfhc155bc2gasoon28rtsp7gksgl882re@4ax.com...
>>> "Dugie" <d_fren@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >I prefer Graffiti 1, but use G2 since it came with my T|E.
>>> >
>>> >If the suggested methods to convert back to Graffiti 1 will work,
>> I'll
>>> >convert.
>>>
>>> It works fine on both my TE and Zire 72.
>>> Here is the first link I found tonight where you can get it:
>>>
>>> http://www.zansstuff.com/palm.html
>>
>> Thanks. I found the same link last night. Backed up my Palm, then tried
>> the "No_Card\" method, followed directions, and my T|E locked. Had to
>> hard reset. Maybe the other method will work, if I get around to it.
>
> Since no-one else mentioned it, I'll put in a word for Tealscript. I've
> been using it to stick with G1 strokes it since moving from a M505 to a TT,
> and now on a T3, and I've been very happy with it. It's not free, but it's
> not expensive either, it is supported and it avoids the sort of messing
> around described above.
>
> No connections other than as a satisfied user....
>
> Jeremy

OK. Then I'll add my two cents. I've used Tealscript with my Garmin iQue 3600 and
recently had to disable it and use Graffiti 1 from the two files. I've had problems
with missing parts of strokes, so for example a "t" would appear as an "i" if the top
bar did not register. Also sometimes the strokes would overlap as though the
precessor could not keep up and no stroke registered.

When I found out someone else had the same problems with Tealscript I diabled it and
the problems have mostly gone away. The only thing I miss is the capitalization with
crossing.

Adam
Anonymous
July 6, 2005 12:51:57 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 19:49:32 -0500, Zombie Elvis wrote (in part):

> ... Also, many characters which require a punctuation
> stroke in G1, can be performed with only one stroke in G2 --
> specifically, parentheses and the ampersand (@) can be written with
> only one stroke in G2 and I use them enough that this is a great time
> saver for me...

Just for the record, "@" is an at symbol and "&" is an ampersand,
although both require punctuation shift in G1. I've used both G1 and
G2 but have no strong preference.
Anonymous
July 27, 2005 4:21:56 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Me neither, but at least the subject line makes some sense.

I use FitalyVirtual on my T3, but have installed the G1 libraries for
onscreen writing.
Anonymous
July 27, 2005 6:11:17 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

I actually ended up installing TealScript so I wouldn't have to put up
with G2. Horrible, terrible, awful script.

So here's a vote for G1. Though I also made up my own virtual stylus
keyboard using MilliKeys that I use sometimes, and own a folding
full-size keyboard that I use for extended typing.

LM
Anonymous
July 28, 2005 11:15:47 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 14:11:17 -0700, purple_bovine wrote:

> I actually ended up installing TealScript so I wouldn't have to put up
> with G2. Horrible, terrible, awful script.
>
> So here's a vote for G1. Though I also made up my own virtual stylus
> keyboard using MilliKeys that I use sometimes, and own a folding
> full-size keyboard that I use for extended typing.

Here's a vote for G2. I really prefer writing on the line for caps
instead of shifting. The strokes for infrequent characters are easier to
remember. And, it seems to have less difficulty with my penmanship.

I can only think of two downsides: Multiple strokes for common characters
and putting spaces or periods after L's is problematic. I'd like the old
strokes for L and T to come back.

--
Mark Healey
marknews(at)healeyonline(dot)com
Anonymous
July 28, 2005 3:26:48 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

In article news:<pan.2005.07.28.07.15.46.146285@spammer.die>, Mark Healey
wrote:
> Here's a vote for G2. I really prefer writing on the line for caps
> instead of shifting. The strokes for infrequent characters are easier
> to remember. And, it seems to have less difficulty with my penmanship.

Your comment about writing caps on the centre line serves as a reminder
that there is more than one issue here. G2 brings a number of good and new
features - such as centre-caps and on-screen graffiti - as well as its own
set of character glyphs. I don't think any of us who detest G2 would argue
that the new features are not desirable (and, indeed, many of us have been
able to enjoy those features through hacks on earlier PalmOS versions),
what we dislike is the new glyphs.

In particular, the fact that some single characters can only be entered
using multiple strokes - this one feature of G2 is so overwhelmingly
counterproductive that it should have endured that G2 never saw the light
of day (but we all know that it was the the Xerox lawsuit rather than any
imagined superiority of the new multi-stroke entry that led to its
introduction).

Infrequently-used characters are not much of an issue, as there's
alwaysthe on-screen keyboard for those. At least all characters in the
Palm character set CAN be entered using G1, that's not, AIUI, the case
with G2.

> I can only think of two downsides: Multiple strokes for common
> characters and putting spaces or periods after L's is problematic.
> I'd like the old strokes for L and T to come back.

And I.

Cheers,
Daniel.
Anonymous
August 1, 2005 8:33:06 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

>Your comment about writing caps on the centre line serves as a reminder
>that there is more than one issue here. G2 brings a number of good and new
>features - such as centre-caps and on-screen graffiti - as well as its own
>set of character glyphs. I don't think any of us who detest G2 would argue
>that the new features are not desirable (and, indeed, many of us have been
>able to enjoy those features through hacks on earlier PalmOS versions),
>what we dislike is the new glyphs.

Exactly. I actually quite like the center-cap feature; but considering
that my text-entry speed was something like 40wpm with G1, and that I
always, always, always got the L and the T (and the K) strokes wrong
with G2, which slowed me down considerably, I chose to implement
something like G1 again with TealScript (which still has the center-cap
feature, so I get the best of both worlds).

I'm actually quite happy with TealScript - I modified some strokes so
that now I can write even faster. So I guess I'm not using "pure" G1
anymore - but all the characters are single-stroke, which is the only
thing I wanted out of this thing anyway.

LM
Anonymous
August 2, 2005 9:25:25 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 16:33:06 -0700, purple_bovine wrote:

>>Your comment about writing caps on the centre line serves as a reminder
>>that there is more than one issue here. G2 brings a number of good and new
>>features - such as centre-caps and on-screen graffiti - as well as its own
>>set of character glyphs. I don't think any of us who detest G2 would argue
>>that the new features are not desirable (and, indeed, many of us have been
>>able to enjoy those features through hacks on earlier PalmOS versions),
>>what we dislike is the new glyphs.
>
> Exactly. I actually quite like the center-cap feature; but considering
> that my text-entry speed was something like 40wpm with G1, and that I
> always, always, always got the L and the T (and the K) strokes wrong
> with G2, which slowed me down considerably, I chose to implement
> something like G1 again with TealScript (which still has the center-cap
> feature, so I get the best of both worlds).
>
> I'm actually quite happy with TealScript - I modified some strokes so
> that now I can write even faster. So I guess I'm not using "pure" G1
> anymore - but all the characters are single-stroke, which is the only
> thing I wanted out of this thing anyway.

I've never heard of this TealScript. Tell me more.

I know I could google it but I'd rather hear from a real user.

--
Mark Healey
marknews(at)healeyonline(dot)com
Anonymous
August 2, 2005 11:42:56 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Mark Healey wrote:

> On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 14:11:17 -0700, purple_bovine wrote:
>
>> I actually ended up installing TealScript so I wouldn't have to put up
>> with G2. Horrible, terrible, awful script.
>>
>> So here's a vote for G1. Though I also made up my own virtual stylus
>> keyboard using MilliKeys that I use sometimes, and own a folding
>> full-size keyboard that I use for extended typing.
>
> Here's a vote for G2. I really prefer writing on the line for caps
> instead of shifting. The strokes for infrequent characters are easier to
> remember.


For an experienced user, this makes little or no difference. It does,
however, help new users, who otherwise find the experience frustrating.


> And, it seems to have less difficulty with my penmanship.


You addressed a very important point here...


> I can only think of two downsides: Multiple strokes for common charactersx
> and putting spaces or periods after L's is problematic. I'd like the old
> strokes for L and T to come back.

Yes, 'L' and 'T' are wonderfully simple. Not only are they better than G2,
but they also make penmanship inferior. Not to mention 'B' which is a '3'
letter-stroke, 'G' which is a '6' letter-stroke, 'A' which is an arrow,
'J', 'U' and the rest of the bunch which are a 'snap'.

Anybody who have used G1 in the past and defends G2 makes it a case of sour
grapes. Palm had a reason for facing Xerox in court.

Roy

--
Roy S. Schestowitz
http://Schestowitz.com
Anonymous
August 2, 2005 3:22:14 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

In article news:<pan.2005.08.02.07.20.14.261312@spammer.die>, Mark
Healey wrote:
> From what I've seen it is just a case of people who got used to
> G1 griping about having to change to G2.

That's certainly not true in my case. We all have to learn to use new
things, and learn new ways of using old things, all the time in
computing; it's not a novelty, and where there is a benefit for the
user it's not resented.

G2 is demonstrably inferior to G1 for rapid entry, almost entirely
because there are some characters that now require two strokes.

> The loss of single stroke characters was bad but unavoidable.

"Unavoidable"? Palm could have ignored Xerox's preposterous claims and
carried on with G1. Xerox eventually lost the lawsuit, after all. Even
if you allow that Palm were sensible to consider the possibility that
justice might not have prevailed, and so changing to G2 may be seen as
a justifiable precaution, there is no reason not to change back now.

> Ultimately it is a religious issue.

I'm not sure what the issue really is ... if it were really about the
relative merits of G1 and G2 then G2 would have vaished without trace
the day Xerox lost the lawsuit (to be replaced by G3, which would have
the oncsreen writing and centre-caps of G2 with the strokes of G1).
There is clearly some other (possibly religious) reason for Palm
sticking with the mess they have at present.

Let us hope they see the light soon.

Cheers,
Daniel.
Anonymous
August 2, 2005 3:22:15 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 11:22:14 +0100, Daniel James
<wastebasket@nospam.aaisp.org> wrote:

>I'm not sure what the issue really is ... if it were really about the
>relative merits of G1 and G2 then G2 would have vaished without trace
>the day Xerox lost the lawsuit (to be replaced by G3, which would have
>the oncsreen writing and centre-caps of G2 with the strokes of G1).
>There is clearly some other (possibly religious) reason for Palm
>sticking with the mess they have at present.

Um... you *do* know that it's really easy to add on-screen writing and
center-caps crossing to G1 with a couple of freeware hacks, right?
Anonymous
August 2, 2005 4:44:28 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Daniel James wrote:

> In article news:<pan.2005.08.02.07.20.14.261312@spammer.die>, Mark
> Healey wrote:
>> From what I've seen it is just a case of people who got used to
>> G1 griping about having to change to G2.
>
> That's certainly not true in my case. We all have to learn to use new
> things, and learn new ways of using old things, all the time in
> computing; it's not a novelty, and where there is a benefit for the
> user it's not resented.
>
> G2 is demonstrably inferior to G1 for rapid entry, almost entirely
> because there are some characters that now require two strokes.
>
>> The loss of single stroke characters was bad but unavoidable.
>
> "Unavoidable"? Palm could have ignored Xerox's preposterous claims and
> carried on with G1. Xerox eventually lost the lawsuit, after all. Even
> if you allow that Palm were sensible to consider the possibility that
> justice might not have prevailed, and so changing to G2 may be seen as
> a justifiable precaution, there is no reason not to change back now.
>
>> Ultimately it is a religious issue.
>
> I'm not sure what the issue really is ... if it were really about the
> relative merits of G1 and G2 then G2 would have vaished without trace
> the day Xerox lost the lawsuit (to be replaced by G3, which would have
> the oncsreen writing and centre-caps of G2 with the strokes of G1).
> There is clearly some other (possibly religious) reason for Palm
> sticking with the mess they have at present.
>
> Let us hope they see the light soon.


Palm must have stuck with what seemed safer at the time. It is also possible
that they had some G2 advocates at the time of the lawsuit, so they decided
to go ahead with it. Given the bad reputation associated with being led to
court, I don't think they made a miserable decision, but it affects
existing customers quite badly. I am lucky to have gotten hold of a
Tungsten T so that G2 mess stays away from me. I don't want to change my
habits, especially if they are unproductive. Those who made the transition
will defend it, but it's no better than chewing an onion.

Going on with Graffiti 1 would have had a negative effect on the worried
investors. Linux have similar issues with SCO who claim that part of the
kernel is their intellectual property. So-called Linux friends such as IBM
have been taken to court because of that very same issue.

Roy

--
Roy S. Schestowitz
http://Schestowitz.com
Anonymous
August 2, 2005 7:10:58 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Roy Schestowitz <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote:

> I am lucky to have gotten hold of a Tungsten T
>so that G2 mess stays away from me.

You don't have to stick with the Tungsten T just to keep G1 if you don't want
to. There is a patch (Google Graffiti_Library.prc) that will that will return a
G2 Palm to G1. I used it to restore G1 to my Tungsten E and Zire 72. I'm not
sure it works on the new NVFS models though...
Anonymous
August 2, 2005 9:16:06 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Daniel James <wastebasket@nospam.aaisp.org> wrote:
>
> G2 is demonstrably inferior to G1 for rapid entry, almost entirely
> because there are some characters that now require two strokes.

While this is a bad thing, I think Jot Lite is inferior to Graffiti for
speed because some character combinations require a *wait* between them
to avoid being misinterpreted, and some are position dependent and can't
be scribbled without looking, like for Graffiti

Regards,
--
*Art
Anonymous
August 3, 2005 3:43:06 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

In article news:<dconqm$8jr$1@cauldron.broomstick.com>, Arthur Hagen wrote:
> Daniel James <wastebasket@nospam.aaisp.org> wrote:
> >
> > G2 is demonstrably inferior to G1 for rapid entry, almost entirely
> > because there are some characters that now require two strokes.
>
> While this is a bad thing, I think Jot Lite is inferior to Graffiti for
> speed because some character combinations require a *wait* between them
> to avoid being misinterpreted, ...

By "Jot Lite" you mean G2, yes?

That's more-or-less what I said. If there were no two-stroke characters
there would be no need for this disambiguation, and so no need to wait. The
fact that you need to wait is evidence of the fact that G2 is slower.

We agree.

> ... and some are position dependent and can't
> be scribbled without looking, like for Graffiti

There is some position-dependence for G1 ... a 3-shaped glyph may mean a
"3" or a "B", depending on where in the Graffiti area it's drawn, for
example. If you draw a glyph so that it crosses the part of the Graffiti
area that activates the pop-up keyboard you get the pop-up keyboard an no
glyph. I agree that there are more of these in G2, and that that makes
writing 'blind' more error-prone ... but not that that makes blind Graffiti
actually impossible with G2 (or that it was not error-prone with G1).

Cheers,
Daniel.
Anonymous
August 3, 2005 3:43:06 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

In article news:<c25ve1d68d3dadc1djbmk455fic1ogppm5@4ax.com>, Mike Koenecke
wrote:
> Um... you *do* know that it's really easy to add on-screen writing and
> center-caps crossing to G1 with a couple of freeware hacks, right?

You're thinking of "Graffiti Anywhere" and "Centre Caps Hack"? Yes I know
about them. I, personally, have never felt the desire to use either of
these but I know they are popular.

There's clearly a demand for the functionality, and I applaud the fact that
G2 adds it as standard without the need for hacks - especially as support
for hacks is dwindling in newer versions of PalmOS. If we could have those
features (and, preferably, the ability to en/disable then at will) built
into a version of Graffiti that supported the G1 character strokes (at
least as an option) that would be great.

Cheers,
Daniel.
Anonymous
August 3, 2005 3:43:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Daniel James <wastebasket@nospam.aaisp.org> wrote:
>
>> ... and some are position dependent and can't
>> be scribbled without looking, like for Graffiti
>
> There is some position-dependence for G1 ... a 3-shaped glyph may
> mean a "3" or a "B", depending on where in the Graffiti area it's
> drawn, for example.

Not really. What's significant in Graffiti is the point where you
*start* drawing the character -- where you draw it is irrelevant. To
miss the text area as a starting point seems very unlikely.

> If you draw a glyph so that it crosses the part
> of the Graffiti area that activates the pop-up keyboard you get the
> pop-up keyboard an no glyph.

No, you don't. You have to actually tap that, and not just pass over
it. Try it (on a Graffiti device).

> I agree that there are more of these in
> G2, and that that makes writing 'blind' more error-prone ... but not
> that that makes blind Graffiti actually impossible with G2 (or that
> it was not error-prone with G1).

I have regularly taken notes under the table in situations where a
dictaphone hasn't been a workable option. It works well with Graffiti.

Regards,
--
*Art
Anonymous
August 4, 2005 11:02:15 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

AaronJ wrote:

> Roy Schestowitz <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I am lucky to have gotten hold of a Tungsten T
>>so that G2 mess stays away from me.
>
>
> You don't have to stick with the Tungsten T just to keep G1 if you don't want
> to. There is a patch (Google Graffiti_Library.prc) that will that will return a
> G2 Palm to G1. I used it to restore G1 to my Tungsten E and Zire 72. I'm not
> sure it works on the new NVFS models though...

It does not. Palm needs to offer the G3 version as specified by others
in this thread. Today the best Graffiti implementation is on a Pocket PC.

Dale

--
_ _ Dale DePriest
/`) _ // http://users.cwnet.com/dalede
o/_/ (_(_X_(` For GPS and GPS/PDAs
Anonymous
August 4, 2005 1:39:19 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Hi,

purple_bovine@yahoo.com wrote:
> Exactly. I actually quite like the center-cap feature;

<snip>

I installed G1 on my LifeDrive, and was happily surprised to find out
that the center-cap feature is still available, even when using G1 strokes.

Talk about win-win situation ;-)

Laurent
--
Laurent Bugnion, GalaSoft
Software engineering: http://www.galasoft-LB.ch
Private/Malaysia: http://mypage.bluewin.ch/lbugnion
Support children in Calcutta: http://www.calcutta-espoir.ch
Anonymous
August 4, 2005 1:45:14 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Hi,

Mark Healey wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 07:42:56 +0100, Roy Schestowitz wrote:
<snip>

> Ultimately it is a religious issue.

What really made me revert to G1 on my LifeDrive is how painfully slow
G2 is on certain letters. For example, when you write a "L", the G2
engine waits for the next character, to check if it's a "dot" (in which
case the "L" must be turned into a "I". If you want to type "L.", for
example, then you have to wait a little before the "L" actually appears
on the screen. When you write something, and then change to another text
field, for example when entering a new contact in the address book, I
often had the case that I was too fast, and the character appeared in
the new text field instead of the old one where it should have been
written. That was a real issue for me, though I am extremely flexible in
learning new things.

I installed the G1 libraries and I am very happy with it, especially
since the major improvement of G2 (the "center-cap" feature) is still
available. The only issue is that thew LifeDrive G1 libraries sometimes
crash Blazer (but it crashes a lot anyway ;-)

Greetings,
Laurent
--
Laurent Bugnion, GalaSoft
Software engineering: http://www.galasoft-LB.ch
Private/Malaysia: http://mypage.bluewin.ch/lbugnion
Support children in Calcutta: http://www.calcutta-espoir.ch
Anonymous
August 4, 2005 2:09:33 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Hi,

AaronJ wrote:
> Roy Schestowitz <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I am lucky to have gotten hold of a Tungsten T
>>so that G2 mess stays away from me.
>
>
> You don't have to stick with the Tungsten T just to keep G1 if you don't want
> to. There is a patch (Google Graffiti_Library.prc) that will that will return a
> G2 Palm to G1. I used it to restore G1 to my Tungsten E and Zire 72. I'm not
> sure it works on the new NVFS models though...

It does if you find the right libraries.

Here's a link for the ones I use on my LifeDrive:
http://yahm.palmoid.com/G14OS54.zip

Greetings,
Laurent
--
Laurent Bugnion, GalaSoft
Software engineering: http://www.galasoft-LB.ch
Private/Malaysia: http://mypage.bluewin.ch/lbugnion
Support children in Calcutta: http://www.calcutta-espoir.ch
Anonymous
August 4, 2005 2:39:21 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

In article news:<dcq92l$knp$1@cauldron.broomstick.com>, Arthur Hagen wrote:
> > There is some position-dependence for G1 ... a 3-shaped glyph may
> > mean a "3" or a "B", depending on where in the Graffiti area it's
> > drawn, for example.
>
> Not really. What's significant in Graffiti is the point where you
> *start* drawing the character -- where you draw it is irrelevant. To
> miss the text area as a starting point seems very unlikely.

I agree that the area you have to hit is quite large and missing it is not
the most likely thing in the world ... my point was that G1 does have some
position dependence in this regard. G2 has more, so the chance of missing
is greater, but it's not an entirely new problem that only occurs in G2
(which you had seemed to be suggesting).

> > If you draw a glyph so that it crosses the part
> > of the Graffiti area that activates the pop-up keyboard you get the
> > pop-up keyboard an no glyph.
>
> No, you don't. You have to actually tap that, and not just pass over
> it. Try it (on a Graffiti device).

Well, I'm not sure exactly what it is I do, but I do occasionally get the
pop-up keyboard springing unwanted to life beneath my stylus as I try to
write Graffiti. I'm certainly not deliberately tapping the "ABC dot" (which
doesn't actually have a dot, on my Tunsgten (T1, with G1)) ... maybe I'm
starting a stroke slightly too far to the lower left of the Graffiti panel
and either the stylus bounces or the digitizer is getting flaky ... I don't
know.

Having the keyboard pop up when you're not expecting it doesn't help at all
when you're trying to write Graffiti 'blind'!

Cheers,
Daniel.
Anonymous
August 4, 2005 2:39:22 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Daniel James <wastebasket@nospam.aaisp.org> wrote:
>
> Having the keyboard pop up when you're not expecting it doesn't help
> at all when you're trying to write Graffiti 'blind'!

Well, luckily it shouldn't hinder you that much either (except for the
one letter that erroneously brought up the keyboard), as you can
continue to use Graffiti whether the pop-up keyboard is activated or
not. Start a glyph in the Graffiti area, and the keyboard area is
ignored even if passing over it, at least on a Vx. I imagine it's worse
for those who have a virtual Graffiti area where the pop-up keyboard
replaces the Graffiti input area. (Or if there's a model where both
can't be used at the same time for other reasons.)

Hmm, I wonder if there's a hack to make the pop-up keyboard more
difficult to activate by mistake? Like requiring a double-tap?

Regards,
--
*Art
Anonymous
August 8, 2005 12:14:15 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Laurent Bugnion <galasoft-lb@bluewin.ch> wrote:
>
> I installed the G1 libraries and I am very happy with it, especially
> since the major improvement of G2 (the "center-cap" feature) is still
> available. The only issue is that thew LifeDrive G1 libraries
> sometimes crash Blazer (but it crashes a lot anyway ;-)

You might want to give TealScript a try -- it gives you a choice between
multi-stroke characters (G2) or not (G1), as well as tuning of the
recognition engine to fit your writing, and I've never seen it crash.
Yes, it's payware ($15-20 bucks or so), but compared to the price of the
PDA, I find it cheap.

Regards,
--
*Art
Anonymous
August 8, 2005 8:31:48 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Hi Arthur,

Arthur Hagen wrote:
> Laurent Bugnion <galasoft-lb@bluewin.ch> wrote:
>
>>I installed the G1 libraries and I am very happy with it, especially
>>since the major improvement of G2 (the "center-cap" feature) is still
>>available. The only issue is that thew LifeDrive G1 libraries
>>sometimes crash Blazer (but it crashes a lot anyway ;-)
>
>
> You might want to give TealScript a try -- it gives you a choice between
> multi-stroke characters (G2) or not (G1), as well as tuning of the
> recognition engine to fit your writing, and I've never seen it crash.
> Yes, it's payware ($15-20 bucks or so), but compared to the price of the
> PDA, I find it cheap.
>
> Regards,

Thanks for the tip, but I looked into TealScript a long time ago, and
wasn't hooked. Besides, the G1 libraries make me happy as it is ;-)

Laurent
Anonymous
August 9, 2005 1:58:44 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

It's basically a Graffiti replacement; you can customize your Graffiti
strokes, change them, and have the software adjust to the way you write
them. It's pretty unobtrusive once it's installed; I pretty much
forget it's there, most of the time. I changed some of the Graffiti
strokes to ones of my own invention, to make life easier, and I'm quite
happy with the thing.

LM
!