Darksteel blue- Transference

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has anyone played with this deck? what is your opinion on it?
what modifications did you do to make this deck better?

thanx!
 
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i thought on adding Vedalken Archmage to deck.
i have only one, but with 3 or 4 of them i think that this deck would work
great??
what do you think??
 
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cemo wrote:

> i thought on adding Vedalken Archmage to deck.
> i have only one, but with 3 or 4 of them i think that this deck would work
> great??
> what do you think??

Vedalken Archmage
{2}{U}{U}
Creature -- Vedalken Wizard
0/2
Whenever you play an artifact spell, draw a card.

Not bad if you have room.
Throwing in just one isn't that bad an idea.

Hm, I'm trying to remember the big combo trick I used for this deck.
Something like Nuisance Engine to produce Artifact creatures.
Sacrifice them to Spawning Pit.
Create more artifact creatures!

Nuisance Engine
{3}
Artifact
{2}, {T}: Put a 0/1 Pest artifact creature token into play.

Spawning Pit
{2}
Artifact
Sacrifice a creature: Put a charge counter on Spawning Pit.
{1}, Remove two charge counters from Spawning Pit: Put a 2/2 Spawn
artifact creature token into play.

There's some card draws for your Archmages!

In my case I had added Serum Tank for some draws.

Serum Tank
{3}
Artifact
Whenever Serum Tank or another artifact comes into play, put a charge
counter on Serum Tank.
{3}, {T}, Remove a charge counter from Serum Tank: Draw a card.

The Archmage looks ultimately more versatile and cheaper.
But he might also be more vulnerable.
(See endless Myr vs. Talisman debates...)
 
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>
> Nuisance Engine
> {3}
> Artifact
> {2}, {T}: Put a 0/1 Pest artifact creature token into play.
>
> Spawning Pit
> {2}
> Artifact
> Sacrifice a creature: Put a charge counter on Spawning Pit.
> {1}, Remove two charge counters from Spawning Pit: Put a 2/2 Spawn
> artifact creature token into play.
>
> There's some card draws for your Archmages!

are you saying that when i put a artifact creature token into play, that
counts as i played an artifact spell??
does that mean that for every token i put in play i can draw a card??
i ask this because i'm new i mtg.
thanx!
 
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On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 20:19:05 -0400, Ophidian <oNpEhMiOdian23@cox.net>
wrote:

>Vedalken Archmage
>{2}{U}{U}
>Creature -- Vedalken Wizard
>0/2
>Whenever you play an artifact spell, draw a card.

>Hm, I'm trying to remember the big combo trick I used for this deck.
>Something like Nuisance Engine to produce Artifact creatures.
>Sacrifice them to Spawning Pit.
>Create more artifact creatures!
>
>Nuisance Engine
>{3}
>Artifact
>{2}, {T}: Put a 0/1 Pest artifact creature token into play.
>
>Spawning Pit
>{2}
>Artifact
>Sacrifice a creature: Put a charge counter on Spawning Pit.
>{1}, Remove two charge counters from Spawning Pit: Put a 2/2 Spawn
>artifact creature token into play.
>
>There's some card draws for your Archmages!

Woah there!
Put into play != play. Or as the comp rules put it:

Put Into Play
If an effect instructs a player to put an object into play, that
object is not considered "played."

Sorry to say it, but your combo trick dosn't work.

--
Regards
Simon Nejmann
 
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(Crosspost & Followup-To: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules)

"cemo" <cemo@rock.com> writes:
> Zoe Stephenson <zrs1@uk.ac.york.reversed> writes:
>> The Vedalken Archmage will trigger only when you play an artifact
>> spell. The trigger will resolve before the artifact even gets into
>> play.
>
> does that mean that i can draw a card even if that spell is
> countered??

Yes. Anything that triggers off of "playing a spell" doesn't care if
that spell later gets countered.

--
Peter C.
"Benign packets have this bit set to 0; those that are used for an
attack will have the bit set to 1."
-- RFC 3514, "The Security Flag in the IPv4 Header"
 
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cemo <cemo@rock.com> sent:

>> Nuisance Engine
>> {3}
>> Artifact
>> {2}, {T}: Put a 0/1 Pest artifact creature token into play.
>>
>> Spawning Pit
>> {2}
>> Artifact
>> Sacrifice a creature: Put a charge counter on Spawning Pit.
>> {1}, Remove two charge counters from Spawning Pit: Put a 2/2 Spawn
>> artifact creature token into play.
>>
>> There's some card draws for your Archmages!

> are you saying that when i put a artifact creature token into play, that
> counts as i played an artifact spell??

No, it doesn't. "Put into play" isn't the same as "play", especially
not for the purposes of triggering a triggered ability. There's even
a Glossary entry in the rulebook for it (as pointed out somewhere else
in this thread) :

Put Into Play
If an effect instructs a player to put an object into play, that
object is not considered "played."

Compare these two card wordings:

Vedalken Archmage {2}{U}{U} Creature -- Vedalken Wizard 0/2
/ Whenever you play an artifact spell, draw a card.

Leonin Elder {W} Creature -- Cat Cleric 1/1
/ Whenever an artifact comes into play, you may gain 1 life.

The Leonin Elder will trigger no matter how the artifact gets into play;
for example, this one will trigger when a Nuisance Engine is used to
put a Pest into play. The trigger will resolve after the artifact is
in play.

The Vedalken Archmage will trigger only when you play an artifact
spell. The trigger will resolve before the artifact even gets into
play.

> does that mean that for every token i put in play i can draw a card??

No, that's not the case. There's not a lot of difference between the
two wordings, but the difference is very important to the game.

> i ask this because i'm new i mtg.

Welcome :)

--
-- zoe
 
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cemo wrote:

>>Nuisance Engine
>>{3}
>>Artifact
>>{2}, {T}: Put a 0/1 Pest artifact creature token into play.
>>
>>Spawning Pit
>>{2}
>>Artifact
>>Sacrifice a creature: Put a charge counter on Spawning Pit.
>>{1}, Remove two charge counters from Spawning Pit: Put a 2/2 Spawn
>>artifact creature token into play.
>>
>>There's some card draws for your Archmages!
>
>
> are you saying that when i put a artifact creature token into play, that
> counts as i played an artifact spell??

Not quite.
But close.

For example:
Arcbound Crusher
{4}
Artifact Creature
0/0
Trample
Whenever another artifact comes into play, put a +1/+1 counter on
Arcbound Crusher.
Modular 1 (This comes into play with a +1/+1 counter on it. When it's
put into a graveyard, you may put its +1/+1 counters on target artifact
creature.)

The important part is "Whenever another artifact comes into play".
It's not "when an artifact spell is played".
All that matters is that an artifact comes into play, not how it
got there.
Nuisances Engine and Spawning Pit created token thus count.

> does that mean that for every token i put in play i can draw a card??

From Archmage?
Yup.

> i ask this because i'm new i mtg.
> thanx!

Your welcome.
No problem.
 
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Simon Nejmann wrote:

> On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 20:19:05 -0400, Ophidian <oNpEhMiOdian23@cox.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Vedalken Archmage
>>{2}{U}{U}
>>Creature -- Vedalken Wizard
>>0/2
>>Whenever you play an artifact spell, draw a card.
>
>>Hm, I'm trying to remember the big combo trick I used for this deck.
>>Something like Nuisance Engine to produce Artifact creatures.
>>Sacrifice them to Spawning Pit.
>>Create more artifact creatures!
>>
>>Nuisance Engine
>>{3}
>>Artifact
>>{2}, {T}: Put a 0/1 Pest artifact creature token into play.
>>
>>Spawning Pit
>>{2}
>>Artifact
>>Sacrifice a creature: Put a charge counter on Spawning Pit.
>>{1}, Remove two charge counters from Spawning Pit: Put a 2/2 Spawn
>>artifact creature token into play.
>>
>>There's some card draws for your Archmages!
>
> Woah there!
> Put into play != play. Or as the comp rules put it:

Yup. Got ahead of myself.
Almost every other similar effect says comes into play. ;(
I was mainly citing these for Crusher and suffered STML on
Archmage's wording. ;(

> Sorry to say it, but your combo trick dosn't work.

Not for Archmage, nope. ;(
 
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OK, sorry for top posting but I wanted to leave the context in.
Got confused.
My Crusher example is right, and was making a point I intended.
Expanding it to Archmage was just plain wrong.
Sorry. ;(



Ophidian wrote:

> cemo wrote:
>
>>> Nuisance Engine
>>> {3}
>>> Artifact
>>> {2}, {T}: Put a 0/1 Pest artifact creature token into play.
>>>
>>> Spawning Pit
>>> {2}
>>> Artifact
>>> Sacrifice a creature: Put a charge counter on Spawning Pit.
>>> {1}, Remove two charge counters from Spawning Pit: Put a 2/2 Spawn
>>> artifact creature token into play.
>>>
>>> There's some card draws for your Archmages!
>>
>>
>>
>> are you saying that when i put a artifact creature token into play, that
>> counts as i played an artifact spell??
>
>
> Not quite.
> But close.
>
> For example:
> Arcbound Crusher
> {4}
> Artifact Creature
> 0/0
> Trample
> Whenever another artifact comes into play, put a +1/+1 counter on
> Arcbound Crusher.
> Modular 1 (This comes into play with a +1/+1 counter on it. When it's
> put into a graveyard, you may put its +1/+1 counters on target artifact
> creature.)
>
> The important part is "Whenever another artifact comes into play".
> It's not "when an artifact spell is played".
> All that matters is that an artifact comes into play, not how it
> got there.
> Nuisances Engine and Spawning Pit created token thus count.
>
>> does that mean that for every token i put in play i can draw a card??
>
>
> From Archmage?
> Yup.
>
>> i ask this because i'm new i mtg.
>> thanx!
>
>
> Your welcome.
> No problem.
 
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>
> The Vedalken Archmage will trigger only when you play an artifact
> spell. The trigger will resolve before the artifact even gets into
> play.
>

does that mean that i can draw a card even if that spell is countered??
 
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On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:18:27 +0200, cemo <cemo@rock.com> wrote:
>> The Vedalken Archmage will trigger only when you play an artifact
>> spell. The trigger will resolve before the artifact even gets into
>> play.
>
>does that mean that i can draw a card even if that spell is countered??

Er, yes. (Rules questions go on .rules ...) The Archmage triggers when the
spell is played (announced), and the triggered ability goes on the stack
on top of that spell. The ability resolves before the spell can, and doesn't
particularly care what happens to the spell _after_ the ability has triggered,
in any way.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 
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Ophidian <oNpEhMiOdian23@cox.net> wrote:
>cemo wrote:
>>>There's some card draws for your Archmages!

(No, as others have said.)

>> are you saying that when i put a artifact creature token into play, that
>> counts as i played an artifact spell??
>
>Not quite.

Not at all, in fact, in ANY way.

>But close.

No, not even close.

>For example:
>Arcbound Crusher 4 Artifact Creature
>0/0 Trample Whenever another artifact comes into play, put a +1/+1 counter
> on Arcbound Crusher. / Modular 1 (*)
>
>The important part is "Whenever another artifact comes into play".
>It's not "when an artifact spell is played".

Correct. This triggers fine off putting artifact creature tokens into play.
Vedalken Archmage, which triggers off PLAYING (announcing) artifact SPELLS,
does not do so.

>> does that mean that for every token i put in play i can draw a card??
>
> From Archmage?
>Yup.

Nope. Archmage does NOT say "Whenever an artifact comes into play, draw a
card."; go re-read it please.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.