Doom3 and Direct X9 question

[coolsquirtle]

okay money is involved in this

when doom 3 comes out, it is a Direct X 9 game does that mean

1. any video card without full Direct X9 support wont be able to play it( i mean like when u try to install it it'll say videocard uncompatible)

2. a card with full Direct X 8 support card can still install and play it without the good stuff

I am betting my friend that his GeForce 4 MX 420 wont be able to play it (i mean not even being able to go to the title screen) and i need to make sure i'm right

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[jiffy]

Well you might want to wait for more replies before settling up with your friend. I haven’t heard anything, but I don’t see why the card won’t play. Because I think all you need is DX9 installed and not a actual support DX9 card. If I’m wrong I will be shocked.

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When you feel that reality does not suit you, live a fantasy life.

 

[Willamette_sucks]

Any card will work, u just might not see things on an MX440 that you would on a 9800 Pro, JUST MAYBE!
And then theres that thing about frames per second.

"Every Day is the Right Day." -Pink Floyd

 

[Willamette_sucks]

HAHA! Old Hand! Cool.
Whats next, nimble knuckle?
Im on my way up baby, and I aint stoppin. Shootin to the stars.

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[jiffy]

To take full advantage of the graphics in DOOM 3 you will need a FX card.

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When you feel that reality does not suit you, live a fantasy life.

 

[coolsquirtle]

well i talked to him yesturday i am betting him my Ti4200 that his Mx440 wont gain over 10fps in any part of doom3, if he loses he'll buy my Ti4200for $250 CAD lol

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[rain_king_uk]

I think it will probably be playable with all settings on low on his card, then he will be able to play it on your GF4Ti after he wins it and turn up the settings a tad

 

[ianmills]

Doom 3 is a DIRECTX 8 game

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

No it's NOT! It's DX9.


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[vacs]

geez, is it so hard to understand:
The Doom3 engine is based on OpenGL 2.0 and not on D3D 9.x.

Doom3 nevertheless will require you to have DX9.1 installed because it uses several parts of DX like DirectInput and maybe even DirectSound (not sure, I think Carmack coded his own soundsystem).

However you won't need a fully DX9.x compatible card to run Doom3. In fact the minimum required card to play D3 is a Geforce 256 (the first GeForce ever released) but if you like to enjoy all the graphical effects and features you need a card which supports OpenGL 2.0.

Currently the only cards supporting OGL 2.0 are also the same cards with are fully DX9.x compiliant like the Radeon 9x00 serie (with the exception of 9000 and 9200 which are DX8) and all the GeForce FXes.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

yeah, true. I knew it has PS shader code and such requiring PS2.0 level shaders. That's what's confusing. I forgot it's OpenGL. People talking about it stressing DX9 cards (like in Anandtech's review of the FX5900U) doesn't help the confusion.

Oops!

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red> :tongue: GA to SK

 

[vacs]

yes I know, it's confusing because as I said you need a fully DX9 compatible card to get all the effects in D3 but not because of DX9 but due to the fact that only 100% DX9 cards support OGL 2.0 which is required by D3.

Concerning the performance of D3, there is no doubt that GeForce FXes will offer more speed than Radeons because nvidia is unbeatable in OpenGL. Now that the GF FX 5900 also support UltraShadow, the lead will be even bigger. (JFYI, ATI does not have a comparable stencil shadows technology than nvidia's UltraShadow, HyperZ III can only accelerate stencil shadows but not simply skip shadows which are not visible on screen like UltraShadow does).

check <A HREF="http://www.glexcess.com" target="_new">GLExcess</A> to get an idea about the performance in OpenGL of current high-end graphiccards...

 

[phial]

i thought the 9800pro had the T-Buffer (Ultrashadow or watever nvidia calls it) before Nvidia did? to help with pixel shader lengh and with stencil buffering?

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[vacs]

no, ATI has now added support F-Buffer which is actually a hacked up way to support a pseudo infinite length of shader code (--> 9800). This has nothing to do with stencil shadows or shadows at all. ATI added this feature for marketing reasons because all the GeForce FXes supported longer shader instructions than ATI's offering.

Both ATI's F-Buffer as also the GF FX maximal shader count can never be attained in real gaming (they are both too slow to make full use out of it), those features exist solely for the purpose of marketing. Only next generation graphiccards can handle 1000 or more shader instruction at smooth framerates.

phial, what you certainly meant is ATI's new HyperZ III+ technology supported by the 9800 which has an optimized z-cache for stencil shadows. Eventhough this feature does depth calculations of shadows it's not nearly as advanced as UltraShadow. In fact Ultrashadow is a technique which needs game optimization to be able to use it. Currently only 2 games have UltraShadow support: Doom3 and Abducted

 

[eden]

Go hit him. An MX440, cheaper than a Ti200, will not go farther than 10FPS. It doesn't even have DX8. Laugh at him when he loads it though!

--
If I could see the Matrix, I'd tell you I am only seeing 0s inside your head! :tongue:

 

[LtBlue14]

important technical problems with your bet!
*when he's up close to a wall looking at it, i bet he gets over 10fps
*fps will depend on what settings he puts himself at - for all lowest settings, i bet he'll hit 10 fps at LEAST a few times, perhaps far excede it (20-30 fps?? =O). we're talking resolution AS WELL as details. for instance, i'd say at 1024x768 and medium detail level, he won't do it. but lower than that i think he could.
*his processor will make a big difference in framerate as well - what does he have in this department? gaming performance is more than just the video card

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[eden]

Using a non-DX 8 card INDEED means taxing the CPU for Vertex operations as well as Pixel. BAD!

--
If I could see the Matrix, I'd tell you I am only seeing 0s inside your head! :tongue:

 

[coolsquirtle]

hahah he had a Pentium 2.4A 400fsb on a Aopen board with 512 cheap PC2100 ram and 40gb HDD(cheap too) and a Leadtek Mx440. He was among the dumbass that thought the MX series is just a cheaper version of Ti and it is about the same. He know nothing about computer and think whatever i tell him is BS lol, he doesn't even know the AMD makes CPUs hahaha

any ways i have a winning bet because, i'm betting him that he would be able to run the intro screen of doom3 (you the pretty intro movie like Unreal 2) i tried play Unreal 2 on his computer minimum resolution, the computer froze every time 2 or more aliens shows up


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120% Nvidia Fanboy
Athlon 64......nForce 3, it sure sucks when you can't afford things. One day Operton Servers will cost less than $4000 so everyone can get one

 

[daddywags214]

I believe DIII requires DX9 on windows but not DX9 graphics. For example, I recently preordered MS Flight Sim 2004 : A Century of Flight. It requires DX9 be installed, and it is included on the CD. However, it only REQUIRES a DX7 graphics card. DIII uses DX9 as an option for graphics, not a requirement for them. With a DX9 card you can use all the hoity-toity shaders (bumpmaps, displacement maps, reflections, shadows). Without the DX9 instruction set all it renders is the 3d scene. That MX420 won't run it for crap, I'm betting. Bottomed out resolution, everything set to minimum, you'd get maybe 12 fps. That Ti4200 would probably draw 25 fps, playable enough for me.

Hey jiffy, I think you may have a misunderstanding. The GFFX won't draw DIII any prettier than a Radeon. To use all of the graphical features, you simply need a DX9-set card. To Render it smoothly with all that, you'd need a 9700 Pro or a 5800 Ultra probably. But nobody has a 5800 so I guess we'll say 5900 Ultra.

Tit for tat, butter for fat, ATi's dog kicks nVidia's cat

(Maximum PC)

 

[GeneticWeapon]

I disagree, Nvidia is ruling the roost as far as DoomIII goes. ATi is behind in stencil rendering(D3's major architectural difference from other games) but the drivers are supposed to be ready before the release of the game.
Nvidia has always been excellent in OpenGL applications.

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[GeneticWeapon]

yeah, true. I knew it has PS shader code and such requiring PS2.0 level shaders. That's what's confusing. I forgot it's OpenGL. People talking about it stressing DX9 cards (like in Anandtech's review of the FX5900U) doesn't help the confusion.

I think it's the OpenGL equivilant to PS.2.0.....GL_Arb(something or other)Dave will correct me.


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[ike]

Doom3 is a Dx8.1 coded game. It requires Dx9 installed because of some of the encoded adv pixel shaders and other bs like that to run smooth on Dx9 cards. I dont know why the heck everyone is tweakin out about doom3 specs. If you have a mediocre system with a ti4200 you should be able to play the game fairly well. You WILL have to turn down some of the detail/resolution though. All these "running benchies" and "leaked alphas" are just that alphas. The final game will run better than either of these two demos.

Will his Mx420 be able to play it? Well before i upgraded i could play UT2k3 on my Mx440 at 15-45 fps (oc'd). hell, i could play morrowind(15-30 fps) and that has a crap load of frame rate issues. Unless they put something in the coding that tells it not to run on anything less than a Dx8 card, he should be able to play it and be able to get 5-15 fps (guess) becuz the coding will tell the grfx card not to use some of the more "taxing" details the game has to offer.

iKe



The customer is not always right.
If they were, they would do my job.

 

[Willamette_sucks]

In reply to Daddywags, as to why they require DX9 be installed even when DX9 hardware isn't required.

Apart from what you mentioned, another reason is the audio interface

"Every Day is the Right Day." -Pink Floyd

 

[phial]

and i can play q3 on the office computer/integratedvideo @ 640x16xcrappytextures@35fps playable


no thanks

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[GeneticWeapon]

iKe

Doom3 is a Dx8.1 coded game.

Your full of shiit, it's an OpenGL game. If you dont know that much, then I wouldnt post anymore.

It requires Dx9 installed because of some of the encoded adv pixel shaders and other bs

Again,you dont know what your talking about. If you cant name the pixelshader due to lack of knowledge, dont make yourself look stupid by talking like that.

All these "running benchies" and "leaked alphas" are just that alphas.

The DoomIII benchmark that Tom's and [H] used, were based on the game in it's 99% completed form. You think we dont read? I dont know where you got the idea that you could post garbage here and not get called on it, but you might want to think before you post next time.

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