Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (
More info?)
On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 20:39:46 -0500, Zaxx <bogus@cox.net> wrote:
>Can Stifle counter whatever effect occurs when a card is cycled?
Yes.
Cycling itself is an activated ability (though not one from any sort of
permanent in play); Stifle can counter activated abilities.
Some cycling cards also have a triggered ability that triggers off cycling
the card; Stifle can counter that, because it can counter triggered abilities.
(One Stifle can't counter BOTH a Decree of Justice being cycled AND the
triggered ability that triggers from that, you'd need two Stifles, but if
you had two you could counter both.)
>The following ruling on cycling seems to say to say no:
>
><quote>
>502.18.Ruling.1 - Using Cycling is not a spell, it's an activated ability of
>a card in your hand. It cannot be countered by things which counter spells
>or things that counter activated abilities of permanents. [D'Angelo
>1999/05/01]
></quote>
Well. Does Stifle counter spells? No.
Does Stifle restrict itself to countering activated abilities _of permanents_,
the way, say, Interdict does? No.
Stifle U Instant
Counter target activated or triggered ability. (Mana abilities can't be
countered.)
Interdict can't counter cycling, because it's not an activated ability from
a permanent. But Stifle can.
(Note that Rust, Brown Ouphe, and Ayesha Tanaka, oddly enough, now counter
"target activated ability from an artifact source", and don't restrict
themselves to activated abilities from _artifacts_, meaning in-play, any
more. As far as I can tell, under the current rules Rust _could_ counter
the Cycling of an artifact card ... except that there -are- no artifact
or artifact creature cards, as far as I can also tell, with Cycling or
Landcycling. And Mycosynth Lattice does NOT help here at all, because a
card being cycled doesn't start off in play...)
>This ruling on Stifle also seems to indicate the answer is no:
>
></quote>
>It can target delayed triggered abilities. For example, a card that says
>"Whenever a player cycles a card, you may remove target creature from the
>game. If you do, return that creature to play at end of turn." triggers when
>a player cycles a card and creates a delayed trigger that happens at end of
>turn. You can choose to target the "at end of turn" trigger when it is
>placed on the stack at end of turn. [Scourge FAQ 2003/05/30]
></quote>
No - this says you CAN target delayed triggered abilities. It doesn't say you
CAN'T target the cycling activated ability. [Note that if you do target and
counter the Cycling, that does NOT stop the triggered ability above from
triggering - things that trigger "whenever a player cycles a card" trigger off
announcing the Cycling, which happens before anyone can respond...]
In fact, the Scourge FAQ, which this ruling paraphrases, has two paragraphs
which answer your question, between them, far better:
* Cycling is an activated ability. When a player cycles a card with a cycle
trigger, you can use Stifle to counter either the triggered ability or the
card-drawing ability, but not both.
[Unless you have, as noted above, _two_ Stifles handy, or a Mirari or Fork
or some such Stifle-duplicator.]
* The Onslaught card Astral Slide reads: "Whenever a player cycles a card, you
may remove target creature from the game. If you do, return that creature to
play under its owner's control at end of turn.". This is a triggered ability
that creates a delayed triggered ability when it resolves. You can use Stifle
to counter the triggered ability that removes the creature from the game, or
you can let that resolve and later counter the triggered ability that returns
it to play.
>Or does it all depend on the card being cycled? Can you Stifle Decree of
>Justice but not Noble Templar?
You can Stifle any card being Cycled, as Cycling is an activated ability. If
you do this, the ability is countered, the cycled card already has been
discarded as the cost and can't come back, and the effect does not occur - the
card does not get drawn (or, for landcycling, the library does not get
searched).
_In addition_, you can ALSO Stifle the ability of Decree of Justice which
triggers _from_ cycling it, the one that lets you make Soldiers on resolution;
if you Stifle that rather than the Cycling itself, the player will draw the
card from the Cycling but will not get to pay mana or make Soldiers.
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
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