Modular and Cowardice

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Just wondered, say I have a Cowardice in play:

Cowardice
{3}{U}{U}
Enchantment
Whenever a creature becomes the target of a spell or ability, return that
creature to its owner's hand.


and my opponent has two artifact creatures in play, one of them with
modular. If my opponent kills his creature with modular using a spell or
ability and as a result places the +1/+1 modular counters on his other
artifact creature, is this counted as an ability and does the second
creature return to the players hand since it had been a target of an
ability?


Similarly, is the +1/-1 effect of equipping a skullclamp to a creature
counted as an ability as well and other similar effects from equipment count
as an ability and thus would equipping a creature bounce the creature back
to the players hand when Cowardice is in play?

Thanks a lot!!

Andy

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Hello, Andrew!
You wrote on Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:56:59 +0100:

AQ> Just wondered, say I have a Cowardice in play:

AQ> Cowardice
AQ> {3}{U}{U}
AQ> Enchantment
AQ> Whenever a creature becomes the target of a spell or ability,
AQ> return that
AQ> creature to its owner's hand.


AQ> and my opponent has two artifact creatures in play, one of them
AQ> with
AQ> modular. If my opponent kills his creature with modular using a
AQ> spell or
AQ> ability and as a result places the +1/+1 modular counters on his
AQ> other
AQ> artifact creature, is this counted as an ability and does the
AQ> second
AQ> creature return to the players hand since it had been a target
AQ> of an
AQ> ability?


AQ> Similarly, is the +1/-1 effect of equipping a skullclamp to a
AQ> creature
AQ> counted as an ability as well and other similar effects from
AQ> equipment count
AQ> as an ability and thus would equipping a creature bounce the
AQ> creature back
AQ> to the players hand when Cowardice is in play?

Look at these two rules:

502.33a Equip is an activated ability of artifact Equipment cards. The
phrase "Equip [cost]" means "[cost]: Move this Equipment onto *target*
creature you control. Play this ability only any time you could play a
sorcery."

502.35a Modular represents both a static ability and a triggered
ability. "Modular X" means "This permanent comes into play with X +1/+1
counters on it" and "When this permanent is put into a graveyard from
play, you may put a +1/+1 counter on *target* artifact creature for each
+1/+1 counter on this permanent."

Notice the words "target" (emphasis mine) in both rules. This means
that Cowardice will indeed trigger on playing either Equip or triggered
Modular ability and send the creature back to its owner's hand *before*
that ability resolves (as confirmed by the 8th Edition Cowardice's
reminder text).

Regards,
Arkady.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"Andrew Quinn" <x@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:
> Just wondered, say I have a Cowardice in play:
>
> Cowardice
> {3}{U}{U}
> Enchantment
> Whenever a creature becomes the target of a spell or ability, return
> that creature to its owner's hand.
>
> and my opponent has two artifact creatures in play, one of them with
> modular. If my opponent kills his creature with modular using a
> spell or ability

If that spell or ability targets the modular creature, the creature
will go its owner's hand before the kill-it ability resolves, and its
counters just disappear. But, if it is sacrificed as a cost or is
otherwise killed in a way that doesn't target it,

> and as a result places the +1/+1 modular counters on his other
> artifact creature, is this counted as an ability and does the second
> creature return to the players hand since it had been a target of an
> ability?

At the time that the Modular creature goes to the graveyard, its
Modular ability triggers. The next time a player would get priority,
your opponent puts the ability on the stack targeting the other
creature. Note that this happens even if your opponent doesn't want to
put the counters there (the "may" is chosen on resolution). Then,
since it was targeted, Cowardice's ability triggers and goes on the
stack on top of that.

Assuming that nobody has anything else to play, Cowardice's ability
will resolve, returning the creature to its owner's hand. Then, the
modular ability is countered on resolution because its target is now
missing.

The rules for Modular show the targeting, through the use of the word
"target":

,----[ Magic Comp. Rules (http://www.wizards.com/magic/comprules) ]
| 502.35a Modular represents both a static ability and a triggered
| ability. "Modular X" means "This permanent comes into play with X
| +1/+1 counters on it" and "When this permanent is put into a
| graveyard from play, you may put a +1/+1 counter on target artifact
| creature for each +1/+1 counter on this permanent."
`----

> Similarly, is the +1/-1 effect of equipping a skullclamp to a
> creature counted as an ability as well and other similar effects
> from equipment count as an ability and thus would equipping a
> creature bounce the creature back to the players hand when Cowardice
> is in play?

Well, the effect of an equipment being on something doesn't target,
but the Equip ability does. So if you try to equip a creature, that
creature will get sent back to the hand. But, if an equipment is
already on something and then Cowardice comes into play, it won't send
the equipped creatures back to the hand because they aren't being
targeted.

,----[ Magic Comp. Rules (http://www.wizards.com/magic/comprules) ]
| 502.33a Equip is an activated ability of artifact Equipment
| cards. The phrase "Equip [cost]" means "[cost]: Move this Equipment
| onto target creature you control. Play this ability only any time
| you could play a sorcery."
`----

> Thanks a lot!!

You are very welcome. Please post again if this doesn't clear things
up or if you have more questions.

--
Peter C.
"... Had this been an actual emergency, we would have fled in terror,
and you would not have been informed."

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004, Andrew Quinn wrote:

> Just wondered, say I have a Cowardice in play:
>
> Cowardice
> {3}{U}{U}
> Enchantment
> Whenever a creature becomes the target of a spell or ability, return that
> creature to its owner's hand.
>
>
> and my opponent has two artifact creatures in play, one of them with
> modular. If my opponent kills his creature with modular using a spell or
> ability and as a result places the +1/+1 modular counters on his other
> artifact creature, is this counted as an ability

When the triggered _ability_ of a modular creature targets a creature,
that creature becomes the target of that ability. It's not just
counted as an ability, it _is_ an ability.

> and does the second creature return to the players hand since it had
> been a target of an ability?

Of course.

> Similarly, is the +1/-1 effect of equipping a skullclamp to a creature
> counted as an ability as well and other similar effects from equipment count
> as an ability

No, the +1/-1 effect isn't an ability but "1: equip ..." is (an
activated one).

> and thus would equipping a creature bounce the creature back to the
> players hand when Cowardice is in play?

Equiping yes, being equiped no.

David

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"Risser Family" <news@nospam.com> writes:
[with Cowardice in play]
> It just struck me that you could boomerang someone else's artifact
> creatures this way, by targeting them with your modular ability.
> That is, if you target my Arcbound Bruiser, I could target your
> Platinum Angel with my Modular ability and it would bounce, leaving
> all the rest of my Arcbound creatures in one piece.

Well, if I target your Arcbound Bruiser with something, it will get
returned to your hand and whatever I targeted it with won't affect
it. So, it won't be going to the graveyard, so the Modular ability
won't trigger, so you can't target your opponent's creature with it.

But if someone had Cowardice in play, and your opponent played
Diabolic Edict on you, you could sacrifice a Modular creature and have
its triggered ability target an opponent's artifact creature, which
would then get sent to his hand.

--
Peter C.
Political T.V. commercials prove one thing: some candidates can tell
all their good points and qualifications in just 30 seconds.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

> At the time that the Modular creature goes to the graveyard, its
> Modular ability triggers. The next time a player would get priority,
> your opponent puts the ability on the stack targeting the other
> creature. Note that this happens even if your opponent doesn't want to
> put the counters there (the "may" is chosen on resolution). Then,
> since it was targeted, Cowardice's ability triggers and goes on the
> stack on top of that.
>
> Assuming that nobody has anything else to play, Cowardice's ability
> will resolve, returning the creature to its owner's hand. Then, the
> modular ability is countered on resolution because its target is now
> missing.

It just struck me that you could boomerang someone else's artifact creatures
this way, by targeting them with your modular ability. That is, if you
target my Arcbound Bruiser, I could target your Platinum Angel with my
Modular ability and it would bounce, leaving all the rest of my Arcbound
creatures in one piece.

Neat!
Peter

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:56:59 +0100, Andrew Quinn <x@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>Just wondered, say I have a Cowardice in play:
>
>Cowardice >{3}{U}{U} >Enchantment
>Whenever a creature becomes the target of a spell or ability, return that
>creature to its owner's hand.
>
>and my opponent has two artifact creatures in play, one of them with
>modular. If my opponent kills his creature with modular using a spell or
>ability and as a result places the +1/+1 modular counters on his other
>artifact creature, is this counted as an ability and does the second
>creature return to the players hand since it had been a target of an
>ability?

The triggered ability portion of Modular is a perfectly good ability, and
is targetted; picking the other artifact creature as the target of the
Modular ability certainly triggers Cowardice, and ITS triggered ability
(which by the way does NOT target anything) goes on the stack on TOP of
the triggered Modular ability. And therefore resolves first, bouncing that
other creature before it can get counters (and later causing the Modular
ability to get countered because its only target has gone missing before
resolution),

>Similarly, is the +1/-1 effect of equipping a skullclamp to a creature
>counted as an ability as well

This is a static ability, which has a continuous effect on equipped creature.
It doesn't target anything at all.

However, the _equip_ ability itself is targetted, and _will_ trigger
Cowardice just fine - so if you try to Equip _any_ creature with Cowardice
in play, the Cowardice triggers and bounces the creature before it can
become Equipped. [Meaning in particular for Skullclamp that it never gets
moved onto the creature - the Equip ability gets countered, again because
its only target has gone missing while Equip was waiting on the stack to
resolve - never gets to give the creature +1/-1, and never gets to trigger
from "equipped creature" going to the graveyard either.]

>thus would equipping a creature bounce the creature back
>to the players hand when Cowardice is in play?

Equipping it would. Having a Skullclamp just sitting attached to a creature
doesn't involve any targetting - putting Cowardice in play doesn't bounce any
_already-equipped_ creatures - but using Equip to try to put it on a
creature definitely is targetted and triggers Cowardice.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

> At the time that the Modular creature goes to the graveyard, its
> Modular ability triggers. The next time a player would get priority,
> your opponent puts the ability on the stack targeting the other
> creature. Note that this happens even if your opponent doesn't want to
> put the counters there (the "may" is chosen on resolution). Then,
> since it was targeted, Cowardice's ability triggers and goes on the
> stack on top of that.
>
> Assuming that nobody has anything else to play, Cowardice's ability
> will resolve, returning the creature to its owner's hand. Then, the
> modular ability is countered on resolution because its target is now
> missing.

It just struck me that you could boomerang someone else's artifact creatures
this way, by targeting them with your modular ability. That is, if you
target my Arcbound Bruiser, I could target your Platinum Angel with my
Modular ability and it would bounce, leaving all the rest of my Arcbound
creatures in one piece.

Neat!
Peter