Goblin Welder and Darksteel Collusus

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

I have a Goblin Welder in play and a Darksteel Collusus in play, and I
have a Mox Ruby in my graveyard.

Can I exchange the Collusus for the Mox, or would it not work because the
Collusus does not remain in the grave?

Thanks

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:07:31 -0500, S W Ellis <sellis@moxmonkeys.com> wrote:
>I have a Goblin Welder in play and a Darksteel Collusus in play, and I
>have a Mox Ruby in my graveyard.
>
>Can I exchange the Collusus for the Mox, or would it not work because the
>Collusus does not remain in the grave?

Note that the current card wording doesn't use "exchange" (and is no longer
simultaneous either):

Goblin Welder R Creature -- Goblin
1/1 Tap: Choose target artifact a player controls and target artifact card in
that player's graveyard. If both targets are still legal as this ability
resolves, that player sacrifices the artifact in play, then puts the other
artifact from his or her graveyard into play.

This does ask if both targets are still legal on resolution - so having either
the artifact or the graveyard card disappear in response makes Nothing Happen
on resolution - but does not "tie" the sacrifice to the putting into play,
or vice versa.

So the Colossus' editing of this effect into "that player shuffles the
Darksteel Colossus into his or her library, then puts the Mox Ruby from his
or her graveyard into play", through its replacement effect, doesn't stop
the Mox from coming into play. The effect does NOT say "sacrifices the
artifact in play. If that artifact goes to a graveyard, then that player
puts..."

So yes, you'll get the Ruby in play and the Colossus in the library.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:07:31 -0500, "S W Ellis"
<sellis@moxmonkeys.com> wrote:

>I have a Goblin Welder in play and a Darksteel Collusus in play, and I
>have a Mox Ruby in my graveyard.
>
>Can I exchange the Collusus for the Mox, or would it not work because the
>Collusus does not remain in the grave?

Yep, you can do that. It does not matter that the Colossus does not
stay the graveyard after the Welders effect resolves.

The reverse is off course not possible, since the Colossus can't
possibly be in the graveyard at any time.


Goblin Welder
{R}
Creature -- Goblin
1/1
{T}: Choose target artifact a player controls and target artifact card
in that player's graveyard. If both targets are still legal as this
ability resolves, that player sacrifices the artifact in play, then
puts the other artifact from his or her graveyard into play.

Mox Ruby
{0}
Artifact
{T}: Add {R} to your mana pool.

Darksteel Colossus
{11}
Artifact Creature
11/11
Trample
~this~ is indestructible. ("Destroy" effects and lethal damage don't
destroy it.)
If ~this~ would be put into a graveyard from anywhere, reveal ~this~
and shuffle it into its owner's library instead.

--
Regards
Simon Nejmann

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Simon Nejmann <snejmann@worldonline.REMOVETHIS.dk> sent:
> On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:07:31 -0500, "S W Ellis"
> <sellis@moxmonkeys.com> wrote:

>>I have a Goblin Welder in play and a Darksteel Collusus in play, and I
>>have a Mox Ruby in my graveyard.
>>
>>Can I exchange the Collusus for the Mox, or would it not work because the
>>Collusus does not remain in the grave?

> Yep, you can do that. It does not matter that the Colossus does not
> stay the graveyard after the Welders effect resolves.

> The reverse is off course not possible, since the Colossus can't
> possibly be in the graveyard at any time.

.... unless you cast Humble on one that's in play, removing its abilities,
and then put it into the graveyard that turn.

--
-- zoe

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Simon Nejmann <snejmann@worldonline.REMOVETHIS.dk> wrote:
>Yep, you can do that. It does not matter that the Colossus does not
>stay the graveyard after the Welders effect resolves.
>
>The reverse is off course not possible, since the Colossus can't
>possibly be in the graveyard at any time.

(Pop quiz: name three cards that can allow a Colossus to get put into a
graveyard...)

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) writes:
> Simon Nejmann <snejmann@worldonline.REMOVETHIS.dk> wrote:
>> The reverse is off course not possible, since the Colossus can't
>> possibly be in the graveyard at any time.
>
> (Pop quiz: name three cards that can allow a Colossus to get put into a
> graveyard...)

Humble, Humility, and Soul Sculptor come to mind

--
Peter C.
Press any key to continue or any other key to quit.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

David DeLaney wrote:

> Simon Nejmann <snejmann@worldonline.REMOVETHIS.dk> wrote:
>
>>Yep, you can do that. It does not matter that the Colossus does not
>>stay the graveyard after the Welders effect resolves.
>>
>>The reverse is off course not possible, since the Colossus can't
>>possibly be in the graveyard at any time.
>
>
> (Pop quiz: name three cards that can allow a Colossus to get put into a
> graveyard...)
>
> Dave

Humble, Humility, Soul Sculptor, and Fowl Play.

--Brent

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

David DeLaney sez:

<<
>Simon Nejmann <snejmann@worldonline.REMOVETHIS.dk> wrote:
>>Yep, you can do that. It does not matter that the Colossus does not
>>stay the graveyard after the Welders effect resolves.
>>
>>The reverse is off course not possible, since the Colossus can't
>>possibly be in the graveyard at any time.
>
>(Pop quiz: name three cards that can allow a Colossus to get put into a
>graveyard...)
>
>>

Humble and Humility are the easy ones...though they don't work if a Colossus is
discarded or milled...

The harder one is Soul Sculptor...it, also, doesn't work on a discarded or
milled Colossus...

(But then, I cheated using Apprentice's Deck Editor while searching for "all
abilities". Guess what eleven other cards have been Oraclized to have that
phrase on them?)


----
Both Walter Mondale in 1984 and Michael Dukakis in 1988 took the pundits'
move-to-the-right advice. After both were defeated in landslides, the
conventional wisdom was that they hadn't moved to the right far enough.
--FAIR, 4/9/04

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"HATSUMI" <TANAGY<spam>@IHUG.COM.AU> writes:
> what happens if you are forced to discard the darksteel collusus
> from your hand or someware else out of play with say a hypnotic
> spectre or a Draconian Cylix or millstone?

Well, let's look at the card again:

,----[ Oracle (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dci/oracle) ]
| Darksteel Colossus
| {11}
| Artifact Creature
| 11/11
| Trample
| Darksteel Colossus is indestructible. ("Destroy" effects and lethal
| damage don't destroy it.)
| If Darksteel Colossus would be put into a graveyard from anywhere,
| reveal Darksteel Colossus and shuffle it into its owner's library
| instead.
`----

That last ability means exactly what it says. If it would go into your
graveyard, from anywhere, for any reason, it gets shuffled into the
library instead. This includes being discarded, getting countered, or
really anything that would put it in a graveyard.

The only way that it could get to your graveyard and not be shuffled
in instead would be if that ability was missing at the time (through
Humble and the like).

--
Peter C.
"In a display of perverse brilliance, Carl the repairman mistakes a
room humidifier for a mid-range computer but manages to tie it into
the network anyway." -- The 5th Wave

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

what happens if you are forced to discard the darksteel collusus from your
hand or someware else out of play with say a hypnotic spectre or a Draconian
Cylix or millstone?

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Sun, 2 May 2004 10:00:01 +0930, HATSUMI <TANAGY<spam> wrote:
>what happens if you are forced to discard the darksteel collusus from your
>hand or someware else out of play with say a hypnotic spectre or a Draconian
>Cylix or millstone?

Its ability will still work, since it SAYS "from anywhere". It will get
shuffled into your library, rather than being put into your graveyard.

The ONLY way to get a Darksteel Colossus card into your graveyard is to
first get it into PLAY, second use something that -removes its abilities-
(Humble, Humility, or Soul Sculptor are about the only such things), and
third kill it or destroy it or sacrifice it while it still doesn't have
any of its abilities. We don't have any ways to remove its abilities while
it's in any other zone, and the ability referenced -says- it works from
any zone, so in general you can't do anything to stop it from shuffling
back into your library if you try to do something that would send it from
out of in-play, to the graveyard.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.