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Humble/Humiltiy Any Other Cards Like Them?

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Anonymous
May 3, 2004 7:28:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Are there any other cards that produce the same or similar effects?
Like ones that target artifacts - turning off their continuous or activated
effects?
or
Enchantments?
or
All Permanents?

I realize that there might not be because they could have a seriously mangle
the rules much
more the Humble or Humility ever could.

--------------------------------------------
Todd Beauchemin
high-commander@todds-world.net
Hotmail: Marauder328@hotmail.com
AIM: Marauder328, CaptainTodd328
http://www.todds-world.net

More about : humble humiltiy cards

Anonymous
May 3, 2004 7:28:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Todd Beauchemin <Marauder328@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Are there any other cards that produce the same or similar effects?
>Like ones that target artifacts - turning off their continuous or activated
>effects?

Titania's Song.

>Enchantments?
>All Permanents?

Nope.

>I realize that there might not be because they could have a seriously mangle
>the rules much more the Humble or Humility ever could.

Actually, about the same degree as Humility does. Soul Sculptor can also remove
abilities, but only from creatures.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Anonymous
May 4, 2004 10:34:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Todd Beauchemin <Marauder328@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I just found a problem with my thinking. The Lattice itself is an artifact.
>Therefore the song will stop its abilities as well therefore it would no
>longer have the ability to turn all perminiates in play and not-in-play into
>artifcats.

Note that the Song effect -depends on- the Lattice effect; the Lattice
turns things into artifacts, and the Song affects (noncreature) artifacts.

Note that the Lattice effect depends on the Song effect: the Song's effect
can make the Lattice effect not exist any more.

Also, both of these are being applied in the same payer (layer 4, type-
changing); normally the removal-of-abilities would be up in layer 5, but
anything that's type-changing as part of its effect is applied -entirely-
in layer 4.

So what we have here is called a "dependency loop" ... and for those, you
revert to plain timestamp order to break the loop. So if the Lattice was
there before the Song was, everything will be artifact creature permanents;
the ones that start off creatures won't be 'blank' and the ones that start
off noncreatures will be 'blank'. If the Song is there first, it animates
and blanks the Lattice and the Lattice effect then doesn't get to apply...

> So now it looks like the Lattice turns everything into an
>artifact. The song comes into play stopping the Lattice's ability but that
>still doesn't stop the song from stopping the abilities of all the other
>Artifcats created/converted whent the Lattice was in effect (since I'm
>assuming this all would happen simotaniously).

Not -exactly- a good assumption; there's problems if you assume different
effects "apply simultaneously", solved by the procedures for ordering
the application of continuous effects, 418.5* .

> Thus Local Enchanment would
>be put into the graveyard and global enchantment would briefly be artifact
>creatures but since the Lattice is no longer in effect because of the song
>they will go back to being enchantments.

That doesn't actually make sense; _when_ would this "briefly" be? Either they
are artifact creatures once all continuous effects are applied (and are still
enchantments as well), or they're not; they don't get to 'blink on and off'...

>Following the same effect this would also destroy all lands as well since
>lands have a converted mana cost of 0. Artifact lands would be put into the
>graveyard (unless they get enchanted with at least a 0/+1) since they would
>have a 0/0. Since the Lattice is in play all lands are Artifact Lands which
>means that they will all be converted (briefly) into 0/0 creatures and sent
>to the graveyard.

Yes. Here the "briefly" has a referent - "the time between when you start
applying the combined Lattice/Song effect and when you next check state-based
effects"...

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
!