Targeting and Equipping

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

I have Lightning Greaves and Leonin Shikari in play.

# Lightning Greaves
# {2}
# Artifact -- Equipment
# Equipped creature has haste and can't be the target of spells or
# abilities.
# Equip {0} ({0}: Attach to target creature you control. Equip only as a
# sorcery. This card comes into play unattached and stays in play if the
# creature leaves play.)

# Leonin Shikari
# {1}{W}
# Creature -- Cat Soldier
# 2/2
# You may play equip abilities any time you could play an instant.

My opponent targets the Leonin Shikari with a Lightning Bolt.

If I respond by equipping the Leonin Shikari with the Lightning Greaves,
what happens to the cat and the Lightning Bolt?

Also, do the rules somewhere state that attached equipment can't be
moved onto another creature by paying the equip cost again?

# 502.33a Equip is an activated ability of artifact Equipment cards. The
# phrase "Equip [cost]" means "[cost]: Move this Equipment onto target
# creature you control. Play this ability only any time you could play a
# sorcery."

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

jzilla <jzilla@usenet> sent:
> I have Lightning Greaves and Leonin Shikari in play.

Lightning Greaves {2} Artifact -- Equipment
Equipped creature has haste and can't be the target of spells or
abilities.
Equip {0}

Leonin Shikari {1}{W} Creature -- Cat Soldier 2/2
You may play equip abilities any time you could play an instant.

> My opponent targets the Leonin Shikari with a Lightning Bolt.

> If I respond by equipping the Leonin Shikari with the Lightning Greaves,
> what happens to the cat and the Lightning Bolt?

OK, so the stack has the Lightning Bolt on it, with the GreavesEquip
on top of that. GreavesEquip resolves, moving the equipment onto the
Leonin Shikari. Then, Lightning Bolt tries to resolve, finds its
target can't be the target of a spell, and gets countered (as per
rule 413.2a).

413.2. Resolution of a spell or ability may involve several steps. These
steps are followed in the order
listed below.

413.2a If the spell or ability specifies targets, it checks whether the
targets are still legal. [...explanation of legal target stuff...]


Cat stays unharmed. Lightning Bolt gets countered for illegal target.

> Also, do the rules somewhere state that attached equipment can't be
> moved onto another creature by paying the equip cost again?

Nope. The equip ability allows you to move an equipment onto a creature
you control; it doesn't specify where the equipment has to be for you
to do so (other than implicitly in-play, so that its ability can work at
all). The equipment could have previously been on a different creature
you control, on a creature you don't control, or not on any creature at
all.

--
-- zoe

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

jzilla wrote:

> I have Lightning Greaves and Leonin Shikari in play.
>
> # Lightning Greaves
> # {2}
> # Artifact -- Equipment
> # Equipped creature has haste and can't be the target of spells or
> # abilities.
> # Equip {0} ({0}: Attach to target creature you control. Equip only as a
> # sorcery. This card comes into play unattached and stays in play if the
> # creature leaves play.)
>
> # Leonin Shikari
> # {1}{W}
> # Creature -- Cat Soldier
> # 2/2
> # You may play equip abilities any time you could play an instant.
>
> My opponent targets the Leonin Shikari with a Lightning Bolt.
>
> If I respond by equipping the Leonin Shikari with the Lightning Greaves,
> what happens to the cat and the Lightning Bolt?

The equip ability resolves first and equips the Shikari, giving it
haste and making it an illegal target for any spells or abilities.
When the Bolt tries to resolve, it finds it has no legal targets and
is countered. Nothing happens to the Shikari.
>
> Also, do the rules somewhere state that attached equipment can't be
> moved onto another creature by paying the equip cost again?
>
> # 502.33a Equip is an activated ability of artifact Equipment cards. The
> # phrase "Equip [cost]" means "[cost]: Move this Equipment onto target
> # creature you control. Play this ability only any time you could play a
> # sorcery."

No, they don't. You may activate the equip ability on an Equipment that
is already equipped, in which case it drops off the currently equipped
creature and equips the new creature you targetted.
--
Christopher Mattern

"Which one you figure tracked us?"
"The ugly one, sir."
"...Could you be more specific?"

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On the equipment is says "Equip only as a sorcery."

And sorcery in the rule book says:

Sorceries are spells that you can play only during
your main phases when the stack is empty. Sorcery
spells don ’t stay in play. They go into their owners ’
graveyards when they resolve.

So by playing lightningbolt your opponent create a stack. You can only
react by playing
abilities and spells that are played at instant speed. So I don't
believe you can react by
attaching Lightning Greaves to Leonin Shikari to save him because
attaching an equipment
is played at sorcery timing/speed.

Carl


jzilla wrote:

> I have Lightning Greaves and Leonin Shikari in play.
>
> # Lightning Greaves
> # {2}
> # Artifact -- Equipment
> # Equipped creature has haste and can't be the target of spells or
> # abilities.
> # Equip {0} ({0}: Attach to target creature you control. Equip only as
> a # sorcery. This card comes into play unattached and stays in play if
> the # creature leaves play.)
>
> # Leonin Shikari
> # {1}{W}
> # Creature -- Cat Soldier
> # 2/2
> # You may play equip abilities any time you could play an instant.
>
> My opponent targets the Leonin Shikari with a Lightning Bolt.
>
> If I respond by equipping the Leonin Shikari with the Lightning
> Greaves, what happens to the cat and the Lightning Bolt?
>
> Also, do the rules somewhere state that attached equipment can't be
> moved onto another creature by paying the equip cost again?
>
> # 502.33a Equip is an activated ability of artifact Equipment cards.
> The # phrase "Equip [cost]" means "[cost]: Move this Equipment onto
> target
> # creature you control. Play this ability only any time you could play
> a # sorcery."

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Tue, 04 May 2004 02:48:49 +1000, jzilla <jzilla@usenet> wrote:
>I have Lightning Greaves and Leonin Shikari in play.
>
># Lightning Greaves 2 Artifact -- Equipment
># Equipped creature has haste and can't be the target of spells or abilities.
># / Equip 0 (*)
># Leonin Shikari 1W Creature -- Cat Soldier
># 2/2 You may play equip abilities any time you could play an instant.

Then yes, you can move the Greaves around in response to other stuff.

>My opponent targets the Leonin Shikari with a Lightning Bolt.
>
>If I respond by equipping the Leonin Shikari with the Lightning Greaves,
>what happens to the cat and the Lightning Bolt?

The Cat gets Haste, not that that means much here, and now can't be the target
of spells or abilities. This means that a bit later when the Bolt tries to
resolve, it checks whether its only target is still legal, finds it is no
longer legal, and gets countered. (No effect.)

So yes, this is a very nice combo for causing targetted spells or abilities
to get countered (if they have one target) or Not Affect one given creature
(if they have multiple targets).

>Also, do the rules somewhere state that attached equipment can't be
>moved onto another creature by paying the equip cost again?

Nope. In fact, 212.2h -says- that using the ability moves the Equipment onto
the chosen target creature you control; it does NOT say that it had to be
unattached before that. So yes, this is perfectly legal, you can move an
Equipment from one creature to another by Equipping it onto the new one.

(What you can't do is move it _off_ of a creature without putting it on
something else; Equip has no provision for -unattaching- the Equipment.)

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"Zoe Stephenson" <zrs1@uk.ac.york.reversed> wrote in message
news:c75rch$m37$2@pump1.york.ac.uk...
> > Also, do the rules somewhere state that attached equipment can't be
> > moved onto another creature by paying the equip cost again?
>
> Nope. The equip ability allows you to move an equipment onto a creature
> you control; it doesn't specify where the equipment has to be for you
> to do so (other than implicitly in-play, so that its ability can work at
> all). The equipment could have previously been on a different creature
> you control, on a creature you don't control, or not on any creature at
> all.

While we're on the topic of equipment...say you only control one creature,
with a Skullclamp on it (or any other piece of equipment). Can you, as an
"extra mana outlet", equip the Skullclamp to the creature it's already
equipping? I understand that, in effect, nothing would happen, but it would
prevent you from taking burn (say, from a Su-Chi, Myr Moonvessel, or
Deconstruct). The equip text says nothing about "choose only a creature that
~this~ does not currently equip" or anything to that effect. And it wouldn't
be targetting that creature twice, as equipping targets, but *being
equipped* does not. Follow me here? Hope so. Anyone know the answer here?

--

KB

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Carl Joly wrote:
> On the equipment is says "Equip only as a sorcery."
>
> And sorcery in the rule book says:
>
> Sorceries are spells that you can play only during
> your main phases when the stack is empty. Sorcery
> spells don ’t stay in play. They go into their owners ’
> graveyards when they resolve.
>
> So by playing lightningbolt your opponent create a stack. You can only
> react by playing
> abilities and spells that are played at instant speed. So I don't
> believe you can react by
> attaching Lightning Greaves to Leonin Shikari to save him because
> attaching an equipment
> is played at sorcery timing/speed.
>
> Carl
>
>

I do believe that Leonin Shikari has the ability :

"You may play equip abilities any time you could play an instant."

So it would be perfectly legal to add the equip ability to the stack in
this case.


> jzilla wrote:
>
>> I have Lightning Greaves and Leonin Shikari in play.
>>
>> # Lightning Greaves
>> # {2}
>> # Artifact -- Equipment
>> # Equipped creature has haste and can't be the target of spells or
>> # abilities.
>> # Equip {0} ({0}: Attach to target creature you control. Equip only as
>> a # sorcery. This card comes into play unattached and stays in play if
>> the # creature leaves play.)
>>
>> # Leonin Shikari
>> # {1}{W}
>> # Creature -- Cat Soldier
>> # 2/2
>> # You may play equip abilities any time you could play an instant.
>>
>> My opponent targets the Leonin Shikari with a Lightning Bolt.
>>
>> If I respond by equipping the Leonin Shikari with the Lightning
>> Greaves, what happens to the cat and the Lightning Bolt?
>>
>> Also, do the rules somewhere state that attached equipment can't be
>> moved onto another creature by paying the equip cost again?
>>
>> # 502.33a Equip is an activated ability of artifact Equipment cards.
>> The # phrase "Equip [cost]" means "[cost]: Move this Equipment onto
>> target
>> # creature you control. Play this ability only any time you could play
>> a # sorcery."
>
>

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Carl Joly wrote:

> On the equipment is says "Equip only as a sorcery."

And on the Shikari it says "You may play equip abilities
any time you could play an instant." His play is
perfectly legal.

(Don't feel too bad; I typed up a reply pretty much like
yours until I actually *read* the Shikari, at which point
I erased it--thankfully before I sent it--and rewrote the
correct answer)

--
Christopher Mattern

"Which one you figure tracked us?"
"The ugly one, sir."
"...Could you be more specific?"

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Carl Joly <palomides@videotron.ca> wrote:
>On the equipment is says "Equip only as a sorcery."

This is reminder text, which is shorthand.

>And sorcery in the rule book says:
>
>Sorceries are spells that you can play only during
>your main phases when the stack is empty. Sorcery
>spells don ’t stay in play. They go into their owners ’
>graveyards when they resolve.

The actual rules in the rulebook for Equip show that the reminder text is
shorthand for "Play this ability only -any time- you could play a sorcery". No
actual SPELL gets cast, of any sort, when you use the Equip ability.

>So by playing lightningbolt your opponent create a stack.

You can't "create" (or "destroy") a stack; the stack is always there, it's
a zone of play, just like both players' hands are zones of play. It may be
_empty_ at times ... and you can't play the Equip ability unless it IS empty,
because of the timing restriction "play this only any time you could play a
sorcery".

>You can only react by playing
>abilities and spells that are played at instant speed.

"Speed" is a bad word to use when thinking about Magic; it'll invariably lead
you into wrong answers. You can only react by playing Instant spells,
activated abilities that do NOT have the "only any time you could play a
sorcery" restriction... and nonInstant spells that say "play this any time you
could play an instant".

>So I don't believe you can react by
>attaching Lightning Greaves to Leonin Shikari to save him because
>attaching an equipment is played at sorcery timing/speed.

However, did you look at the text of Leonin Shikari? There's a reason it,
rather than some other creature, was being used in the example...

>> # Leonin Shikari 1W Creature -- Cat Soldier
>> # 2/2 You may play equip abilities any time you could play an instant.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Ken Briscoe wrote:

> "Zoe Stephenson" <zrs1@uk.ac.york.reversed> wrote in message
> news:c75rch$m37$2@pump1.york.ac.uk...
>> > Also, do the rules somewhere state that attached equipment can't be
>> > moved onto another creature by paying the equip cost again?
>>
>> Nope. The equip ability allows you to move an equipment onto a creature
>> you control; it doesn't specify where the equipment has to be for you
>> to do so (other than implicitly in-play, so that its ability can work at
>> all). The equipment could have previously been on a different creature
>> you control, on a creature you don't control, or not on any creature at
>> all.
>
> While we're on the topic of equipment...say you only control one creature,
> with a Skullclamp on it (or any other piece of equipment). Can you, as an
> "extra mana outlet", equip the Skullclamp to the creature it's already
> equipping? I understand that, in effect, nothing would happen, but it
> would prevent you from taking burn (say, from a Su-Chi, Myr Moonvessel, or
> Deconstruct). The equip text says nothing about "choose only a creature
> that ~this~ does not currently equip" or anything to that effect. And it
> wouldn't be targetting that creature twice, as equipping targets, but
> *being equipped* does not. Follow me here? Hope so. Anyone know the answer
> here?
>
Yes, that's perfectly legal. The most notable exception is Lightning
Greaves, where the fact that the Greaves make the creature untargettable
forbids re-equipping in this manner.
--
Christopher Mattern

"Which one you figure tracked us?"
"The ugly one, sir."
"...Could you be more specific?"

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

You are right. I did not read that card.
It is a common mistake that people I play with do
to equip at instant speed, and I thought it was the case
before reading properly the whole situation.
I'll do that next time.

Thanks, Carl

Bowmore wrote:

> Carl Joly wrote:
>
>> On the equipment is says "Equip only as a sorcery."
>>
>> And sorcery in the rule book says:
>>
>> Sorceries are spells that you can play only during
>> your main phases when the stack is empty. Sorcery
>> spells don ’t stay in play. They go into their owners ’
>> graveyards when they resolve.
>>
>> So by playing lightningbolt your opponent create a stack. You can
>> only react by playing
>> abilities and spells that are played at instant speed. So I don't
>> believe you can react by
>> attaching Lightning Greaves to Leonin Shikari to save him because
>> attaching an equipment
>> is played at sorcery timing/speed.
>>
>> Carl
>>
>>
>
> I do believe that Leonin Shikari has the ability :
>
> "You may play equip abilities any time you could play an instant."
>
> So it would be perfectly legal to add the equip ability to the stack
> in this case.
>
>
>> jzilla wrote:
>>
>>> I have Lightning Greaves and Leonin Shikari in play.
>>>
>>> # Lightning Greaves
>>> # {2}
>>> # Artifact -- Equipment
>>> # Equipped creature has haste and can't be the target of spells or
>>> # abilities.
>>> # Equip {0} ({0}: Attach to target creature you control. Equip only
>>> as a # sorcery. This card comes into play unattached and stays in
>>> play if the # creature leaves play.)
>>>
>>> # Leonin Shikari
>>> # {1}{W}
>>> # Creature -- Cat Soldier
>>> # 2/2
>>> # You may play equip abilities any time you could play an instant.
>>>
>>> My opponent targets the Leonin Shikari with a Lightning Bolt.
>>>
>>> If I respond by equipping the Leonin Shikari with the Lightning
>>> Greaves, what happens to the cat and the Lightning Bolt?
>>>
>>> Also, do the rules somewhere state that attached equipment can't be
>>> moved onto another creature by paying the equip cost again?
>>>
>>> # 502.33a Equip is an activated ability of artifact Equipment cards.
>>> The # phrase "Equip [cost]" means "[cost]: Move this Equipment onto
>>> target
>>> # creature you control. Play this ability only any time you could
>>> play a # sorcery."
>>
>>
>>

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Ken Briscoe <youcant@sendmespam.com> wrote:
>"Zoe Stephenson" <zrs1@uk.ac.york.reversed> wrote:
>> Nope. The equip ability allows you to move an equipment onto a creature
>> you control; it doesn't specify where the equipment has to be for you
>> to do so (other than implicitly in-play, so that its ability can work at
>> all). The equipment could have previously been on a different creature
>> you control, on a creature you don't control, or not on any creature at all.
>
>While we're on the topic of equipment...say you only control one creature,
>with a Skullclamp on it (or any other piece of equipment). Can you, as an
>"extra mana outlet", equip the Skullclamp to the creature it's already
>equipping?

Yes, certainly; the rules for Equip don't say "target creature you control
other than the one it is currently attached to". Equipment (except for the
0-equip-cost ones) works just fine as a mana sink.

>I understand that, in effect, nothing would happen, but it would
>prevent you from taking burn (say, from a Su-Chi, Myr Moonvessel, or
>Deconstruct).

Right.

>The equip text says nothing about "choose only a creature that
>~this~ does not currently equip" or anything to that effect. And it wouldn't
>be targetting that creature twice, as equipping targets, but *being
>equipped* does not. Follow me here? Hope so. Anyone know the answer here?

You're correct, that's a perfectly legal action to do, to get rid of excess
mana.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"Chris Mattern" <matternc@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:SqCdnU5CGexSFQvdRVn-hQ@comcast.com...
> Yes, that's perfectly legal. The most notable exception is Lightning
> Greaves, where the fact that the Greaves make the creature untargettable
> forbids re-equipping in this manner.

Good to know. Not to nitpick, but Greaves costs 0 anyways, so I can't even
think of a reason where you'd want/have to do this anyway. But I get what
you're saying nonetheless. Never seen it done before, and I'm sure I'll get
a judge called next time I try it. And I'm going to try it for no particular
reason, just to confuse my opponent.

--

KB

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Ken Briscoe <youcant@sendmespam.com> sent:
> "Chris Mattern" <matternc@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:SqCdnU5CGexSFQvdRVn-hQ@comcast.com...
>> Yes, that's perfectly legal. The most notable exception is Lightning
>> Greaves, where the fact that the Greaves make the creature untargettable
>> forbids re-equipping in this manner.

> Good to know. Not to nitpick, but Greaves costs 0 anyways, so I can't even
> think of a reason where you'd want/have to do this anyway.

More of a subject for .strategy, but it would target the equipped
creature each time, and trigger anything that triggers when something
becomes the target of a spell or ability.

--
-- zoe

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

jzilla sez:

<<
># Lightning Greaves
># {2}
># Artifact -- Equipment
># Equipped creature has haste and can't be the target of spells or
># abilities.
># Equip {0} ({0}: Attach to target creature you control. Equip only as a
># sorcery. This card comes into play unattached and stays in play if the
># creature leaves play.)
>
># Leonin Shikari
># {1}{W}
># Creature -- Cat Soldier
># 2/2
># You may play equip abilities any time you could play an instant.
>
>My opponent targets the Leonin Shikari with a Lightning Bolt.
>
>If I respond by equipping the Leonin Shikari with the Lightning Greaves,
>what happens to the cat and the Lightning Bolt?

>
>>

The Shikari lives, as the Bolt's countered on resolution due to illegal target.

<<
>Also, do the rules somewhere state that attached equipment can't be
>moved onto another creature by paying the equip cost again?
>>

No, you can move 'em as many times in a turn as you want as long as you can pay
the equip cost and can legally play the Equip ability (which, if the Shikari
isn't around, is any time you could play a sorcery.)


----
"I remember back in the day we'd stay up all night...during the summer playing
DnD. Just us, a 12 pack of mtn. dew, a pizza, and alot of sacrificing newborns
on the altar to the lord Satan. good times, good times."
--From Fark.com

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Carl Joly sez:

<<
>So by playing lightningbolt your opponent create a stack. You can only
react by playing
>abilities and spells that are played at instant speed. So I don't
believe you can react by
>attaching Lightning Greaves to Leonin Shikari to save him because
attaching an equipment
>is played at sorcery timing/speed.
>
>>

Except, of course, that the Shikari changes the rules by letting you equip as
an instant. Golden Rule of Magic.


----
"I remember back in the day we'd stay up all night...during the summer playing
DnD. Just us, a 12 pack of mtn. dew, a pizza, and alot of sacrificing newborns
on the altar to the lord Satan. good times, good times."
--From Fark.com

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On 3 May 2004 23:18:12 -0400, dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney)
wrote:

>Ken Briscoe <youcant@sendmespam.com> wrote:

>>While we're on the topic of equipment...say you only control one creature,
>>with a Skullclamp on it (or any other piece of equipment). Can you, as an
>>"extra mana outlet", equip the Skullclamp to the creature it's already
>>equipping?
>
>Yes, certainly; the rules for Equip don't say "target creature you control
>other than the one it is currently attached to". Equipment (except for the
>0-equip-cost ones) works just fine as a mana sink.
Would the creature get *another* -1/-1 applied to it?

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Mark Landin <mark.landin@tdwilliamson.com> sent:
> On 3 May 2004 23:18:12 -0400, dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney)
> wrote:

>>Ken Briscoe <youcant@sendmespam.com> wrote:

>>>While we're on the topic of equipment...say you only control one creature,
>>>with a Skullclamp on it (or any other piece of equipment). Can you, as an
>>>"extra mana outlet", equip the Skullclamp to the creature it's already
>>>equipping?
>>
>>Yes, certainly; the rules for Equip don't say "target creature you control
>>other than the one it is currently attached to". Equipment (except for the
>>0-equip-cost ones) works just fine as a mana sink.

> Would the creature get *another* -1/-1 applied to it?

I assume you mean the +1/-1 from the Skullclamp's static ability?

Skullclamp {1} Artifact -- Equipment
Equipped creature gets +1/-1.
When equipped creature is put into a graveyard, draw two cards.
Equip {1}

The +1/-1 applies all the time that this Skullclamp is attached to this
creature. If the Skullclamp moves onto a creature, it applies to that
creature; if the Skullclamp moves elsewhere, it applies there instead.

Playing the equip ability and leaving the same Skullclamp attached to
the same creature doesn't change what the Skullclamp is attached to, so
it doesn't change where the bonus applies. The same creature keeps its
+1/-1 bonus all the way through.

--
-- zoe

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Mark Landin <mark.landin@tdwilliamson.com> wrote:
>dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) wrote:
>>Ken Briscoe <youcant@sendmespam.com> wrote:
>
>>>While we're on the topic of equipment...say you only control one creature,
>>>with a Skullclamp on it (or any other piece of equipment). Can you, as an
>>>"extra mana outlet", equip the Skullclamp to the creature it's already
>>>equipping?
>>
>>Yes, certainly; the rules for Equip don't say "target creature you control
>>other than the one it is currently attached to". Equipment (except for the
>>0-equip-cost ones) works just fine as a mana sink.

>Would the creature get *another* -1/-1 applied to it?

(+1/-1, I think you mean.)

Nope. Or, more precisely, the one it used to have would stop and a new one
would start at the same time. Total: one +1/-1, only.

To get more than one +1/-1 from Skullclamps on a creature, you have to have
more than one Skullclamp on it.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Mark Landin, worshipped by llamas the world over, wrote...
> On 3 May 2004 23:18:12 -0400, dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney)
> wrote:
>
> >Ken Briscoe <youcant@sendmespam.com> wrote:
>
> >>While we're on the topic of equipment...say you only control one creature,
> >>with a Skullclamp on it (or any other piece of equipment). Can you, as an
> >>"extra mana outlet", equip the Skullclamp to the creature it's already
> >>equipping?
> >
> >Yes, certainly; the rules for Equip don't say "target creature you control
> >other than the one it is currently attached to". Equipment (except for the
> >0-equip-cost ones) works just fine as a mana sink.

> Would the creature get *another* -1/-1 applied to it?

It gets that from being equipped with a Skullclamp. (+1/-1, actually.)
No Skullclamp, no +1/-1. When you remove the Skullclamp, the creature
it was equipping loses the +1/-1; when the Skullclamp goes back on, it
gets it back. But there is no reason why it would have more than one
instance of the +1/-1 at any point in the process; you would need two
Skullclamps for that.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Mark Landin sez:

<<
>On 3 May 2004 23:18:12 -0400, dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney)
>wrote:
>
>>Ken Briscoe <youcant@sendmespam.com> wrote:
>
>>>While we're on the topic of >equipment...say you only control one creature,
>>>with a Skullclamp on it (or any other piece of equipment). Can you, as an
>>>"extra mana outlet", equip the Skullclamp to the creature it's already
>>>equipping?
>>
>>Yes, certainly; the rules for Equip don't say "target creature you control
>>other than the one it is currently attached to". Equipment (except for the
>>0-equip-cost ones) works just fine as a mana sink.
>
>Would the creature get *another* -1/-1 applied to it?

>>

No. Even though you're equipping it multiple times, there's still only one of
it.


----
"I remember back in the day we'd stay up all night...during the summer playing
DnD. Just us, a 12 pack of mtn. dew, a pizza, and alot of sacrificing newborns
on the altar to the lord Satan. good times, good times."
--From Fark.com

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

David DeLaney wrote:

>>While we're on the topic of equipment...say you only control one creature,
>>with a Skullclamp on it (or any other piece of equipment). Can you, as an
>>"extra mana outlet", equip the Skullclamp to the creature it's already
>>equipping?
>
>
> Yes, certainly; the rules for Equip don't say "target creature you control
> other than the one it is currently attached to". Equipment (except for the
> 0-equip-cost ones) works just fine as a mana sink.
>

And of course, anything that says the creature cannot be the target of
spells or abilities.

(E.g., Whispersilk Cloak: "Equipped creature is unblockable and can't be
the target of spells or abilities. Equip 2." You can use this for a
mana-sink only if you have two or more targetable creatures.)

--
(Posted from an account used as a SPAM dump. If you really want to get
in touch with me, dump the 'jboes' and substitute 'mur'.)
________
Jeffery Boes <>< jboes@qtm.net

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Jeff Boes <jboes@qtm.net> wrote:
>David DeLaney wrote:
>>>While we're on the topic of equipment...say you only control one creature,
>>>with a Skullclamp on it (or any other piece of equipment). Can you, as an
>>>"extra mana outlet", equip the Skullclamp to the creature it's already
>>>equipping?
>>
>> Yes, certainly; the rules for Equip don't say "target creature you control
>> other than the one it is currently attached to". Equipment (except for the
>> 0-equip-cost ones) works just fine as a mana sink.
>>
>
>And of course, anything that says the creature cannot be the target of
>spells or abilities.

Just "abilities" works, actually.

>(E.g., Whispersilk Cloak: "Equipped creature is unblockable and can't be
>the target of spells or abilities. Equip 2." You can use this for a
>mana-sink only if you have two or more targetable creatures.)

Right. And the original question involved Lightning Greaves, which doesn't
get used as a mana sink at all anyway... But Skullclamp works fine, if it's
already on a creature that survives having it on it.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On 3 May 2004 23:16:33 -0400, dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney)
wrote:

>On Tue, 04 May 2004 02:48:49 +1000, jzilla <jzilla@usenet> wrote:
>
>(What you can't do is move it _off_ of a creature without putting it on
>something else; Equip has no provision for -unattaching- the Equipment.)
>
With one exception? Because doesn't Leonin Bola allow an Equipment to
be unattached ?

Leonin Bola
{1}
Artifact -- Equipment
Equipped creature has "{T}, Unattach Leonin Bola: Tap target
creature."
Equip {1} ({1}: Attach to target creature you control. Equip only as a
sorcery. This card comes into play unattached and stays in play if the
creature leaves play.)


TechnoPrincess.
AGSF: <http://thingy.apana.org.au/~fun/agsf/>
Semper Monemus Sed Non Audiunt
"We always warn them, but they never listen"

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

TechnoPrincess <TechnoPrincess@mail.com> wrote:
>dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) wrote:
>>(What you can't do is move it _off_ of a creature without putting it on
>>something else; Equip has no provision for -unattaching- the Equipment.)
>
>With one exception? Because doesn't Leonin Bola allow an Equipment to
>be unattached ?

Leonin Bola's _Equip_ ability has no provision for unattaching the artifact;
the Bola's _other_ ability is what gives equipped creature the ability which
can do that.

>Leonin Bola 1 Artifact -- Equipment
> Equipped creature has "Tap,Unattach ~: Tap target creature.". / Equip 1 (*)

See? Two abilities...

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.