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Which Graphics Card Should I Get?

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June 26, 2003 4:32:23 PM

Dear Fellow Forum Members,
I'm getting a new computer soon, and need to know which card you think I should go with: The Radeon 9800 Pro 256 meg or the GeForce FX 5900 Ultra. If it will help, my system specs are as follows:

Processor: 3.0 GHz P4 (could be a 3.2 by the time I order the stupid thing)
Mobo: Asus P4C800-E
RAM: 2 gigs Corsair XMS PC3500 (4x 512)
Sound Card: Sound Blaster Audigy 2 Platinum Ex
Case: Thermaltake Xaser III V2000+
HD: 2x160 GB Seagate Barracuda SATA
DVD-ROM: Samsung SD-816BEPB
DVD-RW: Sony DW-UA10A
CD-ROM: AOpen 56x
Speakers: Creative Megaworks THX 6.1
Power Supply: Antec TrueControl 550W

I just went ahead and listed everything (minus things like the UPS, modem, etc.), because, well, any and all advice, even if it doesn't pertain to the graphics card, would be much appreciated. =)
Oh, and yes, I want three optical drives, and no one is changing my mind. ;) 

Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you do criticize them, you are a mile away and you have their shoes.

More about : graphics card

June 26, 2003 4:54:29 PM

The 9800 PRO would be my pick, I admit I'm a bit biased because of Nvidias cheating scandals of late.

I wouldn't bother spending the extra cash for the 256 MB version though. It offers no real-world advantage.

Either card will deliver amazing performance in games. You can't lose if you have a 9800 PRO or GeforceFX 5900 Ultra.

------------------
Radeon 9500 w/256 bit memory bus @ 367/310
AMD AthlonXP 2000+
3dMark03: 3439
June 26, 2003 5:01:05 PM

I'd get the 9800 Pro and change the speakers to Klipsch ProMedia GMX D-5.1...which comes with 5 satellites and a sub-woofer (http://store.klipsch.com/details.asp?prodID=46). It's pricey but you seem to only want the best for your system. Of course it looks as though you want the ol 6.1 surround instead. I dunno if I'd spring for the creatives...I'd just get some Altec Lansings that are affordable for now (perhaps the 621's...I know they are only two satellites and a sub...but after you replace them with something better, you can use them for playstation/gamecube/xbox!) and then wait for Klipsch to come out in the next quarter with a 6.1 surround. They are the tops when it comes to computer speakers. Just my two cents worth.

Insert_ending_here,
TKS
Related resources
June 26, 2003 6:05:51 PM

Before I EXPLODE on your ass, let me ask you something.
What all do you use your computer for?

Please list specific applications and state whether you use them often or rarely. P.S. consider "games" an application.

"Every Day is the Right Day." -Pink Floyd
June 26, 2003 6:12:12 PM

Well, you seem kind of unstable, so I don't know whether I should talk with you or not. ;) 
It will mainly be for gaming (any and all kinds.....sports, FPS, RPG), but also the standard listening to music, internet surfing, whatnot. Also, I'm majoring in physics, and you have to use some pretty high-end programs for that (I know some places are using Maya, but there are others).

Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you do criticize them, you are a mile away and you have their shoes.
June 26, 2003 6:18:50 PM

You are correct, it doesn't offer any real-world advantage.....yet. But this computer has to last me a while. =) So I'm thinking ahead, too. While the ATI works best now, it seems that Nvidia has modeled the 5900 more towards games of the future.
It's all a guessing game, really, as to which one will be the best of these two in the next few months, when the newer games come out.

Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you do criticize them, you are a mile away and you have their shoes.
June 26, 2003 6:32:24 PM

Both 256 MB cards are overpriced, but if you are going to get a card with 256 MB the 5900 is best, since it is slightly faster.

The 9800 with 128 MB is a much better deal than either 256 MB card though.
June 26, 2003 6:39:37 PM

Who told you the 5900 is made for games of the future? Considering it has lower DX9.0 speed than the 9800 I would think that would be geared towards the future
June 26, 2003 6:40:26 PM

hmm... i see. (Breath in.... breath out.... breath in.... breath out... comon, this is what all those anger management courses were for!...)

OK...
(slow calm voice)
Disgruntled Elf...
After seeing what you use your computer for, and what components you have in it (or are adding), I have come to a conclusion.

You are nothing but a stupid, RICH, college kid trying to get the BEST available to show off or WHATEVER, but you obviously know VERY LITTLE about computers.
For what you do there is ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, ONE HUNDRED PERCENT, WITHOUT A DOUBT, NO (NONE) REASON IN THE UNIVERSE, to have 2 freaking GIGABYTES of RAM, YOU are a COMPLETE AND TOTAL MORON!!!

Do you have ANY idea how USELESS and STUPID it is to have 2gb of ram? Only under VERY RARE AND EXTREME conditions would it be of any benefit. 1gb I can deal with nowadays, but 2gb (under your circumstances) shows your extreme idiocy.

Do you realise that by having 2 gigabytes of ram (esp. in 4 seperate sticks) that youve just LESSENED performance in many applications, mainly games?
Thats right. Like I said, only under very RARE AND EXTREME conditions would you need 2gb of ram. NOT EVEN WITH MAYA under normal circumstances!
Go find some benchmarks.

I am not joking or being sarcastic when I say you have LOWERED performance.
The more memory you have the more memory addresses there are, the more overhead there is, the more your cpu has to work, the more of an IDIOT you are.

I will probably get flamed for this, but who cares.
I just cant STAND it when IDIOTS like YOU, non-professionals, think they need more than a gigabyte of ram.
YOU DONT!
99.9% of people would have ZERO usage for more than 1gb of ram. As a matter of fact, 99.9% of people would have no use for more than 512mb of ram! But 1gb i'll accept.

Look at the benchmarks. ANY GAME, DOOM 3 included, 3dmark 2003, EVERYTHING, RUNS BEST with 512mb of ram. 1024 performs no better (a little worse if anything), and 2gb is going to perform worse than 1gb.

I hope you feel smart you worthless sack of paid-for-by-parents college sh*t.
Maybe you shoulda asked us about your whole system before going and looking like a JACKASS by getting 2gb of ram.
Any smart/cool/1337 person at your college is secretly going to chuckle and make fun of you when you tell him you have 2gb of ram.

"Every Day is the Right Day." -Pink Floyd
June 26, 2003 6:47:36 PM

Ouch.

Willamette, dude... more deep breaths! I feel your pain, but it's not the Elf's fault that he has a surplus of cash.

For the record, Willamette's right. 2 GB of Ram would be wasted on you. If you need 2 GB of ram in two years, buy it then, because it two years it will be $39.99

Peace out, fellows.

------------------
Radeon 9500 w/256 bit memory bus @ 367/310
AMD AthlonXP 2000+
3dMark03: 3439
June 26, 2003 6:57:28 PM

"You are nothing but a stupid, RICH, college kid trying to get the BEST available to show off or WHATEVER"
As I'll state below, stupid and ignorant are two seperate things. I myself am not rich. I simply have been saving up and am ready to make a purchase. I'm getting the best available because it will have to last me at least 5-6 years (I won't have any money to spare while in college, and after I get out, I probably won't have a lot right off the bat, either).

"YOU are a COMPLETE AND TOTAL MORON!!!"
There is a difference between being ignorant and a moron. I am simply ignorant. I'm building a PC for the first time. Moronic would be if I had done lots of research on 2 GB of RAM vs. 1 GB of RAM, in which they all stated that 2 was useless, and still gotten it. Ignorant is me not knowing either way, so I post in a forum for advice. Ignorant is also typing very lengthy forum posts to people, especially when what they are doing harms you in no way whatsoever, and you have no real stock in what happens, without knowing all of the information (or bothering to try and find out). Ignorant is a lack of information about a subject.

"Do you have ANY idea how USELESS and STUPID it is to have 2gb of ram?"
Obviously not. If I did, I wouldn't have even suggested it.

"I hope you feel smart you worthless sack of paid-for-by-parents college sh*t."
Actually, I'm paying for it myself.

"Maybe you shoulda asked us about your whole system before going and looking like a JACKASS by getting 2gb of ram."
I did ask you about my whole system before I got it. I haven't gotten it yet. So I don't look like a "jackass" by "getting 2gb of ram," because I, in fact, have not gotten it yet.

I appreciate the advice, though, even though you went about it rather crudely. I really do, though. I'm not being sarcastic. I should look more into this if someone is willing to spend that much time venting themselves over this subject.

Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you do criticize them, you are a mile away and you have their shoes.
June 26, 2003 7:00:26 PM

Oh, $hit.

Now you've done it.

------------------
Radeon 9500 w/256 bit memory bus @ 367/310
AMD AthlonXP 2000+
3dMark03: 3439
June 26, 2003 7:12:02 PM

Wow!
Thankyou!
And I'm not being sarcastic either!

This is the first time one of my rants/flaming sessions has had a positive influence! You're actually considering my advice!
I have a nice warm fuzzy feeling inside now:) 

I'm not sorry for flaming you though.

However, since you do now come accross as a perfectly level-headed guy, then YES, I suggest you get ONE gigabyte of ram (2x512 xms3500).
That way you wont look like a dipshit in front of people who actually know what theyre talking about!
Also performance will, for you, in most cases, be increased:) 

BUT DONT TAKE MY WORD FOR IT!
Actually do.
But take Cleeve's too, and whoever else decides to respond and agree with me.

"Every Day is the Right Day." -Pink Floyd
June 26, 2003 7:41:28 PM

I'm very thick-headed, so that was probably the only way you'd get through to me. =) In a perverse way I kind of enjoy being flamed.
The only reason I considered getting that much RAM is because this PC could have to last me as much as 8 years, and I've heard whispers in the dark corners of the jungle that is the internet that games such as Doom 3 do in fact benefit from 2 gigs of RAM. And, even if it doesn't, in 8 years (although more likely 5-6), there is no telling.
It's easy to say now you won't need 2 gigs ever, but, then, Bill Gates once said you'd never need more than 512 kb of RAM. I believe that was the quote, anyway, but if it isn't, don't flame me (or do).....I know how you work. You're like a skilled swordsmen waiting for his opponent to make the slightest slip-up so you can lunge forward and destroy him. =)

Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you do criticize them, you are a mile away and you have their shoes.
a b U Graphics card
June 26, 2003 7:58:23 PM

Quote:
In a perverse way I kind of enjoy being flamed.

Ok, then in that case; You're short too!

And, your mother was a hampster and your father smelled of Eldeberries!


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
June 26, 2003 8:12:59 PM

Will your such an angry person.

Did they sell your mother on the blackmarket too?
a b U Graphics card
June 26, 2003 8:15:15 PM

Gaming Guru ya' wanna fix the RE: line before I feel the need to call your mother names too! :tongue:


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
June 26, 2003 8:26:17 PM

The way I see it, getting the BEST components may not be the best option for you. What I mean is this. By spending 1/2 of the money you are currently planning to spend, you can get a system that will be more than enough for anything that you want to do today ... and even a couple of years. In the meantime, you deposit the rest of the money to a bank. After about 1 1/2 - 2 years you will have more than enough money to build a new system. The reason for all this is that you can never predict the future, especially when talking about computers. So, maybe everything we see today will be worthless in 2004 because new technologies will arise etc. I believe you see my point here.

Anyway, I just wanted to get this out of my head :p 

Also, here are some number from Newegg:

Processor: 3.0 GHz P4
Mobo: Asus P4C800-E
RAM: 2 gigs Corsair XMS PC3500 (4x 512)
Sound Card: Sound Blaster Audigy 2 Platinum Ex

*About $1400*

Barton 2800+
A7N8X Deluxe
Corsair PC3200 XMS LL (2 x 256MB)
On-board Soundstorm

*About $470*

Will these two systems have any difference in performance? Sure! Will you be able to notice this difference? I doubt! At least not to the point where the extra $1000 will be justified. You can even put a 128MB Radeon 9800 Pro to that configuration and for about $800 you will have a system that will own Doom III/Half Life 2.
June 26, 2003 8:31:36 PM

Ape u can say all u want about my mother... I could care less.. lol
a b U Graphics card
June 26, 2003 8:32:46 PM

I think we all see it, but that's true of just about EVERY year. IMO.

Get what you can when you feel you need it. Only look to the future if you are getting the very best card and don't need one right now and have a good one already.

If you're not going full out the 9700non-pro is your best bet.

But that's just what I think.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
a b U Graphics card
June 26, 2003 8:35:40 PM

Your Mother plays America's Army, In BOOTS! There! :tongue:

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
June 26, 2003 8:42:18 PM

thats it...?
a b U Graphics card
June 26, 2003 8:46:43 PM

With a Tutu on?

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
June 26, 2003 9:18:48 PM

Wow that hurt.. your a terrible person grape.
June 26, 2003 9:48:11 PM

We have gotten disgustingly off topic here. =) Don't forget what the original intent of the post was.

Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you do criticize them, you are a mile away and you have their shoes.
June 26, 2003 10:01:25 PM

That's it. I can't believe this. Every thread I go to you are saying something rude and out of control.

<A HREF="http://forums.btvillarin.com/index.php?act=ST&f=41&t=38..." target="_new"><font color=red>dhlucke's system</font color=red></A>

<font color=blue>GOD</font color=blue> <font color=red>BLESS</font color=red> <font color=blue>AMERICA</font color=blue>
a b U Graphics card
June 26, 2003 10:17:50 PM

Quote:
your a terrible person grape.


Yeah I know. I think that's why I get poor 3Dmark scores! :frown:

BTW, shouldn't that be you're? :tongue:

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
June 26, 2003 10:24:09 PM

I agree with what Pitsi said. Also consider that 5-6 years ago the fastest available was what? About a 500mhz p3? Can you see yourself still using 500mhz p3 today with a 5 year old 3d card?
June 26, 2003 10:37:18 PM

HA! I thought I might get some negative feedback, didn't know it'd be from you dhlucke.

Other people understand me, why can't you?

And its not EVERY thread dude.
Be realistic.
Rude and out of control? Overstatement.
dhlucke acting like my grandma? Understatement.

To those of you who don't hate me like dhlucke I assume now does, if he goes and does something stupid like trying to ban me from this forum, please let your opinion that I should be allowed to stay, heard.

Dhlucke, I like you, but I'm gonna say this this one time..

LIGHTEN UP MR. FARGOTMAN!

I have been flaming more lately than normal, so maybe I'll try to tone it down a bit, but no way am I the only one doing such things.
HONORARY VETERAN GOD OF THGC.
Get your ass off that horse you're riding.

"Every Day is the Right Day." -Pink Floyd<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Willamette_Sucks on 06/26/03 06:48 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
June 26, 2003 10:48:50 PM

Your just Pissed that he's going to have a better system than you. 2 gigs of RAM is pretty retarded.

If its not broken, you're not trying hard enough.
June 26, 2003 11:16:41 PM

22 posts just in this section where you call people fargots...

<A HREF="http://forums.btvillarin.com/index.php?act=ST&f=41&t=38..." target="_new"><font color=red>dhlucke's system</font color=red></A>

<font color=blue>GOD</font color=blue> <font color=red>BLESS</font color=red> <font color=blue>AMERICA</font color=blue>
June 27, 2003 8:09:51 AM

Argh. Enough about the RAM. It's 1 gig now. Sheesh. =) Now, about the video card.....

Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you do criticize them, you are a mile away and you have their shoes.
June 27, 2003 8:15:57 AM

Aim for Fame and become a legend (9800 Pro 128 MB all the way)

IF you want to stay safe, kick it down a notch and save some money go 9700 Pro or non-pro.

From what i've read they are all dependable cards.

"War is like food, after eating the same thing several days in a row... it gets boring." - Me
June 27, 2003 8:33:54 AM

Yeah, it seems every, single forum memeber in every forum of the world says Radeon. =) But it's so hard to ignore the speed of the FX 5900, their drivers are better, and it seems to be more geared towards games of the future than the Radeon. I guess I can't really go wrong either way. It's just hard to pull the trigger.

Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you do criticize them, you are a mile away and you have their shoes.
June 27, 2003 9:16:36 AM

In the words of Willy...

9800 Pro 128MB poo's on the face of the 5900... detail and speed wise. If you wanna spend the extra 100 dollars for the 5900 be my guest, I think the cards are in the same ball field. Its wether or not u wanna spend 100 more dollars to suit your craving for nvidia.

"War is like food, after eating the same thing several days in a row... it gets boring." - Me
June 27, 2003 12:11:49 PM

> Processor: 3.0 GHz P4 (could be a 3.2 by the
> time I order the stupid thing)

Peachy!

> Mobo: Asus P4C800-E

Nappy, get the P4P800 Deluxe. It's faster and it's cheaper.

> RAM: 2 gigs Corsair XMS PC3500 (4x 512)

Senseless and less chance of operating in dual ddr mode. 1G is more than enough... especially for gaming purposes.

> Sound Card: Sound Blaster Audigy 2 Platinum Ex

Good stuffs.

> Case: Thermaltake Xaser III V2000+

Nice.

> HD: 2x160 GB Seagate Barracuda SATA

Waste of money, but whatever floats your boat, if you wait a shortwhile you will prolly be able to get the 200+ gig satas.

> DVD-ROM: Samsung SD-816BEPB
> DVD-RW: Sony DW-UA10A
> CD-ROM: AOpen 56x

Bad setup. Ditch the DVD-ROM, Ditch the CD-ROM and replace it with a Lite-On 52x24x52 and for the DVD-RW go with the Sony DRU-500AX. You'll be able to burn all formats of dvd/cd with that setup and you end up with one less drive... which means you could use ide instead of sata and get 2 250g ide drives and have half a terrabyte of storage.

> Speakers: Creative Megaworks THX 6.1

Excellent, I've never regreted my Megaworks.

> Power Supply: Antec TrueControl 550W

Good stuff

As far as graphics goes, either the 9800 256 or the FX 5900 Ultra 256 would fit fine, if you wanna skimp a bit (not that it looks like you do) the FX5900 or the 9800 128 would be good chioces.

Just my .02

Shadus
June 27, 2003 4:01:33 PM

I appreciate you taking the time to respond! In reply to some of your comments:
RAM: Yes, after the last, oh, 30 replies or something that ended in people hurling insults at each other, I am going with 1 gig. I, being the newbie in PC building that I am, naturally assumed more RAM is always better.
Mobo: It may be faster, yes, but it doesn't have SATA via the South Bridge, which is something the P4C800-E does have. Plus, the Asus P4C800 is overclocked a little out of the box (although I'm not sure about the -E).
As far as the HD's go, the only reason I am getting that much is because I fill up space really fast. With games being 3+ gigs sometimes nowadays, and the gigs and gigs of music files, video, etc., it really adds up. It may be overkill, but, well.....maybe I should drop down a step or two as far as size.
As far as the DVD-RW, I may have put the wrong model number: the one I MEANT to put up is the one that does in fact burn every format. Well, +/- in DVD. I don't think it burns that other DVD format. The name of which escapes me.
The thing that's so hard for me to decide upon is the graphics card, of course. It used to be so much easier.
Well, for other people. The computer I use now has 4 megs of video memory intergrated onto the motherboard, and that's the best I've ever had as far as graphical capabilities. =)

Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you do criticize them, you are a mile away and you have their shoes.
a b U Graphics card
June 27, 2003 9:02:51 PM

<A HREF="http://www.ocaddiction.com/articles/video/fx_5900ultra_..." target="_new">HERE's</A> a review from OCAddiction putting the R9800 (128) up against the FX5900Ultra(256), you decide which benchmarks means the most to you.

There's alot of good info and some good image/IQ info.

<A HREF="http://www.ocaddiction.com/articles/video/fx_5900ultra_..." target="_new">http://www.ocaddiction.com/articles/video/fx_5900ultra_...;/A>

And despite the new warm feeling in THGC I still think I smell Eldeberries! :wink:


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
June 27, 2003 11:11:55 PM

Thanks TGGA! That's one I had missed. HardOCP has a good one, too, but, argh, it seems everyone has a different card as being better in the same tests. =) Why can't stores just let you take each one home and try them before you buy them?
I'm leeeaning toward the Radeon, but I'll read an article later showing that the GeForce is better I'm sure.

Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you do criticize them, you are a mile away and you have their shoes.
June 28, 2003 8:21:48 AM

hey i just found your post and i suggest what the other guy said about the cd drives. ditch those and get a 52x24x52 lite on, those break almost all copy protection with clone cd. as far as dvd, i never used mine but i would go with the sony that guy suggested.

honestly if i had desire to blow that kind of money on a video card i would have a hard time deciding between the 5900 and the 9800pro.
the 5600 i'd pass on, but the 5900 is NOT junk and many people are much to quick to pass on nvidia now because of many issues that are really irrelevant.. its fanboyism.

nvidia has a much better track record than ati in driver development side of things, the 5900 WILL increase in speed, especially as Doom 3 engine games become popular, and they will because no other 3d engine rivals it. ATI has usually had better hardware, but the situation is reversed right now, and I expect nvidia to improve drivers exponentially within the next few months. Nvidias hardware (5900) is better.

Oh, and i would almost bet my entire (rather slow) system that the nvidia will be faster than the 9800 pro by doom 3 release. Mostly because it already is. :) 

and about the ram, I say if you have the money go 2GB.
I wouldnt worry about performance loss, I'd like to see benchmarks of losing 50fps over having an extra gig of ram. The loss in performance with an extra gig is probably about the gain in performance in going from a 128mb 9800 pro to a 256mb model (very little besides in extreme circumstances).
But RAM is cheap and plentiful, and it might be useful if your going to be doing multiple simultaneous user logins under XP and/or dual monitor support (something you could use your DVD for!)

Good luck my friend, I'm also a college student, well.. im actually done now but have no job.. but I built a system for school much like you are. But by the time I got to building mine it was a Athlon 700mhz w/SDR ram :)  paltry in comparison to your rig (which is odviously making many jealous just reading about it!!!)

If you get a TV tuner stay away from ATI, go with the Leadtek thats on the market. and stay away from hairdryer cpu coolers, im not familiar with the one you have chosen but I like Vantec products and use a Aero Flow they are available for p4 and athlon.
Since your using P4 i'd go with a retail boxed version, P4 stock coolers are quiet and good. you get your 3yr warranty that way to i think.
I also suggest antec products also, the lanboy case is great if you want to keep your computer as light as possible and the sonata is a classy case that might keep noise down for your room.
Good luck!

America- The Home of the Brave

Athlon 1700+, Epox 8RDA (NForce2), Maxtor Diamondmax Plus 9 80GB 8MB cache, 2x256mb Crucial PC2100 in Dual DDR, Geforce 3, Audigy, Z560s, MX500
June 28, 2003 9:25:50 AM

This whole cheating thing has put me right off nvidea. Sure ATI did it but they didnt go to the extremes and have admitted to it and removed them from new drivers. I will never trust nvidea until they admit to what they did and remove the cheats from drivers. A card that will change visual quality without my knowledge based on what programs/games/benchmarks im running isnt my idea of a quality product IMO.....

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=945569" target="_new"> MY RIG </A>
<font color=red> 120% overclocker </font color=red> (cheapskate)
June 28, 2003 9:33:26 AM

I'll have to disagree with you there. =) They never said, "No optimizations," so what nVidia did was perfectly legal.
If I'm not mistaken, all it did was not render things you couldn't see anyway. Those are technically in the scene, but I don't see the harm.

Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you do criticize them, you are a mile away and you have their shoes.
June 28, 2003 9:42:42 AM

Name a game where that would work as an "optimization"

<A HREF="http://forums.btvillarin.com/index.php?act=ST&f=41&t=38..." target="_new"><font color=red>dhlucke's system</font color=red></A>

<font color=blue>GOD</font color=blue> <font color=red>BLESS</font color=red> <font color=blue>AMERICA</font color=blue>
June 28, 2003 9:49:00 AM

Thanks for the thoughts! Well, kind of. Now I'll have an ever harder time deciding on parts. =)

"ditch those and get a 52x24x52 lite on"
Well, I just discovered on newegg today that Lite On has come out with a +/- DVD burner, too. Sony used to be the only one, so I may drop the Sony altogether.

"the 5900 WILL increase in speed, especially as Doom 3 engine games become popular"
That is one of the things that makes me have a hard time deciding.....if no new games were to ever come out, then sure, Radeon 9800 Pro is what I'd probably get. But the GeForce is SUPPOSED to be (we can't say for sure, obviously) faster with games of the future. And this computer will have to play lots of those, because it will be here a while.

"honestly if i had desire to blow that kind of money"
As long as as much of it gets spent as possible. ;)  Whatever I don't spend goes bye bye. I have a really weird situation.

"and about the ram, I say if you have the money go 2GB"
Plus, RAM is one of those things that, if it's too much of a problem, it's not so difficult to take out. I guess if I did get 2 gigs (I don't think I will, but, if I have left over cash, I've gotta spend it), I could always just take it out or sell it or something.

"Since your using P4 i'd go with a retail boxed version, P4 stock coolers are quiet and good. you get your 3yr warranty that way to i think."
Yeah, I've heard nothing but good things about the stock cooling for P4's. I doubt I'll risk my warranty (if it indeed voids it) unless it's at 80 degrees celcius or something, but I'd have some serious problems then that a new heatsink wouldn't fix. =)

Thanks for the thoughts! I'll look into that Lite On. I think I'm going to go find benchmarks comparing 2 gigs to 1 gig, though, before I do anything. Don't tell Will that, though. He'll have a fit, and is likely to hunt me down and kill me. I sleep with a light on now because of him.

Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you do criticize them, you are a mile away and you have their shoes.
June 28, 2003 9:50:45 AM

I was referring specifically to the benchmarking. In the benchmarking tests, they never said no optimizations. So I don't see any problems with that specific case.

Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you do criticize them, you are a mile away and you have their shoes.
June 28, 2003 10:06:17 AM

The whole reason for benchies is to test a card on a level playing field with another card. But when one card changes the way the bench works for its own advantage the benchmark is then not a true picture of the cards capabilities.

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=945569" target="_new"> MY RIG </A>
<font color=red> 120% overclocker </font color=red> (cheapskate)
June 28, 2003 11:14:36 AM

It is quite easy for an application to use over 1GB of RAM; trying rendering something with almost two million faces...

Several games (such as IL2 Sturmovik: Forgotten Battles) benefit from having 1GB of RAM too (some of the scenario maps are 512MB alone).

2GB is excessive for most users, but that doesn't mean that is impossible for someone with 1GB of RAM to experience the dreaded slowdown of a computer desperately accessing virtual memory.
June 28, 2003 1:44:00 PM

If you want 2 gig of ram...then get 2 gig of ram. Most motherboard makers are not in the habit of adding capacity for more ram than you will EVER need. Its why we call them Personal Computers or PCs. Make yours as "Personal" as you choose. Goodluck

I want to die like my Grandfather...in my sleep...not screaming in terror like his passengers.
June 28, 2003 8:26:56 PM

"Most motherboard makers are not in the habit of adding capacity for more ram than you will EVER need."
That's a good point. Well stated. =)
This is the first time I've ever posted in a graphics card forum and gotten all the RAM information I could ever need.
On a small side note, I've decided on the 5900 Ultra. Is there a real difference between the EVGA and the Gainward 256 meg cards?

Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you do criticize them, you are a mile away and you have their shoes.
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