Blasting station timing questions

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Greetings, All--

I currently run a type II elf deck, and am trying to find ways to
improve it using Fifth Dawn. One of the cards I saw was Blasting
Station:

Blasting Station
3
Artifact
[Tap], Sacrifice a creature: Blasting Station deals 1 damage to target
creature or player. Whenever a creature comes into play, you may untap
Blasting Station.

Question #1:
I was wondering how/if the timing worked with Wirewood Hivemaster:

Wirewood Hivemaster
1G
Creature - Elf
1/1
Whenever another nontoken Elf comes into play, you may put a 1/1 green
Insect creature token into play.

Let's say I have the Station and Hivemaster in play. I cast another
non-token elf, netting one insect token. Is there anyway to sac the
insect to use the Station, then untapping because of the non-token
elf? I don't think so, but I wanted to make sure.

Question #2:
Same situation as above, except this time I also have 2 insect tokens
in play when I cast the non-token elf. Can I somehow sac the tokens
to use the station twice, with the elf and insect coming into play?

Question #3:
This situation is similar to #2. Let's say my opponent cast
Patriarch's Bidding, when I have 5 creatures and the Blasting Station
in play, and 5 elves in the graveyard.

Patriarch's Bidding
3BB
Sorcery
Each player chooses a creature type. Each player returns all creature
cards of a type chosen this way from his or her graveyard to play.

Obviously, I'm going to choose elves. Can I somehow use the station 5
times?

Thanks for the help!

Scott

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Hello, Scott!
You wrote on 8 Jun 2004 07:40:17 -0700:

SV> Greetings, All--

SV> I currently run a type II elf deck, and am trying to find ways
SV> to
SV> improve it using Fifth Dawn. One of the cards I saw was
SV> Blasting
SV> Station:

SV> Blasting Station
SV> 3
SV> Artifact
SV> [Tap], Sacrifice a creature: Blasting Station deals 1 damage to
SV> target
SV> creature or player. Whenever a creature comes into play, you may
SV> untap
SV> Blasting Station.

SV> Question #1:
SV> I was wondering how/if the timing worked with Wirewood
SV> Hivemaster:

SV> Wirewood Hivemaster
SV> 1G
SV> Creature - Elf
SV> 1/1
SV> Whenever another nontoken Elf comes into play, you may put a 1/1
SV> green
SV> Insect creature token into play.

SV> Let's say I have the Station and Hivemaster in play. I cast
SV> another
SV> non-token elf, netting one insect token. Is there anyway to sac
SV> the
SV> insect to use the Station, then untapping because of the
SV> non-token
SV> elf? I don't think so, but I wanted to make sure.

Actually, the logic in the following example applies for all the
situations you described so I'll just answer your first question. Notice
that I'm omitting "may" as it's abvious you should always choose what
you "may" do - just remember that you make the choice on resolution, not
when the ability triggers.

You control Wirewood Hivemaster and Blasting Station in play. An Elf
comes into play. At this points, the abilities of both WH "you may put
a 1/1 green insect creature token into play" and BS "you may untap
Blasting Station" trigger. Since you are the controller of both, you
may put them on the stack in any order. Put them this way - "untap BS",
then "create an insect". Let the latter (the top of the stack) resolve.
It puts a creature token into play, triggering BS again. Now you have
two "untap BS" abilities on the stack, waiting to resolve. Tap the BS
and sac a creature and let this "deal 1 damage" ability resolve. Then
let the top "untap BS" ability resolve. You have an untapped BS and
another unused "untap BS" ability on the stack. Tap BS and sac a
creature again, let the "deal 1 damage" ability resolve, let the "untap
BS" resolve. Now you have your BS untapped, one token and another
creature sacrificed and 2 damage distributed as you chose between 1 or 2
targets.

Compare it to the situation when several creatures die in combat and
there is an active (not "summoned sick") Goblin Sharpshooter on the
table. You can activate is as many times as the number of creatures
died (maybe killing others and triggering its untap ability again), if
you carefully track the stack state and play the Sharpshooter's ability
between the resolutions of "untap" abilities.

SV> Thanks for the help!

You are welcome.

SV> Scott

Regards,
Arkady.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

sfvajdos@hotmail.com (Scott Vajdos) writes:
> I currently run a type II elf deck, and am trying to find ways to
> improve it using Fifth Dawn. One of the cards I saw was Blasting
> Station:
> I was wondering how/if the timing worked with Wirewood Hivemaster:

,----
| Blasting Station
| {3}
| Artifact
| {T}, Sacrifice a creature: Blasting Station deals 1 damage to target
| creature or player.
| Whenever a creature comes into play, you may untap Blasting Station.
|
| Wirewood Hivemaster
| {1}{G}
| Creature -- Elf
| 1/1
| Whenever another nontoken Elf comes into play, you may put a 1/1
| green Insect creature token into play.
`----

> Question #1:
> Let's say I have the Station and Hivemaster in play. I cast another
> non-token elf, netting one insect token. Is there anyway to sac the
> insect to use the Station, then untapping because of the non-token
> elf? I don't think so, but I wanted to make sure.

You certainly can. Here's how it works (assuming that your opponent
has no responses):

When the nontoken Elf comes into play, both the abilities of the
Station and the Hivemaster trigger. Since you control both, you choose
the order that they go on the stack. Choose to put the Station's on
the bottom and the Hivemaster's on the top. Let the Hivemaster ability
resolve, putting a token into play. This triggers the Station again,
so you have two "untap Blasting Station" on the stack. You can tap the
Station and sacrifice a creature (including either of the two that
just came into play) before either or both of the abilities. The
Station will untap each time the triggered ability resolves.

> Question #2:
> Same situation as above, except this time I also have 2 insect tokens
> in play when I cast the non-token elf. Can I somehow sac the tokens
> to use the station twice, with the elf and insect coming into play?

I may have answered this question in my answer to #1. The creature
you're explicitly bringing into play and the new Insect token that'll
get created each put an "untap Blasting Station" on the stack. By
using its ability before, between, and after those resolve, you can
get a total of 3 uses.

> Question #3:
> This situation is similar to #2. Let's say my opponent cast
> Patriarch's Bidding, when I have 5 creatures and the Blasting Station
> in play, and 5 elves in the graveyard.
> Obviously, I'm going to choose elves. Can I somehow use the station 5
> times?

,----
| Patriarch's Bidding
| {3}{B}{B}
| Sorcery
| Each player chooses a creature type. Each player returns all
| creature cards of a type chosen this way from his or her graveyard
| to play.
`----

Sure, you can use the station at least 6 times. The 5 creatures you're
bringing into play, plus the creatures your opponent is bringing into
play, plus many Insect tokens if one of your Elves in play or in the
graveyard is a Hivemaster, *each* trigger the Blasting Station
ability. You get many many "untap Blasting Station" on the stack, and
can use the Station before each one (and after the last one if you
don't mind it ending up tapped), assuming that you have creatures to
sacrifice each time.

> Thanks for the help!

You're very welcome. Please post again if you need more clarification
or if you have more questions.

--
Peter C.
Press any key to continue or any other key to quit.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Scott Vajdos <sfvajdos@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I currently run a type II elf deck, and am trying to find ways to
>improve it using Fifth Dawn. One of the cards I saw was Blasting Station:
>
>Blasting Station >3 >Artifact
>[Tap], Sacrifice a creature: Blasting Station deals 1 damage to target
>creature or player. Whenever a creature comes into play, you may untap
>Blasting Station.

Two abilities, not one:

Blasting Station 3 Artifact
Tap,Sacrifice a creature: ~ deals 1 damage to target creature or player. /
Whenever a creature comes into play, you may untap ~.

>Question #1:
>I was wondering how/if the timing worked with Wirewood Hivemaster:
>
>Wirewood Hivemaster 1G Creature - Elf
>1/1 Whenever another nontoken Elf comes into play, you may put a 1/1 green
> Insect creature token into play.

If you control both, you may order their triggered abilities on the stack in
either order each time they both trigger (which is to say, each time a
nontoken Elf other than WH comes into play).

(If you don't control both, then you generally won't be able to sac the new
Insect to the Station, but to complete the answer, they'd go on the stack
active player's first, opponent's on top of that, so opponent's would resolve
first.)

>Let's say I have the Station and Hivemaster in play. I cast another
>non-token elf, netting one insect token. Is there anyway to sac the
>insect to use the Station, then untapping because of the non-token
>elf? I don't think so, but I wanted to make sure.

Yes, sure; the Hivemaster and the Station both triggered off the nontoken Elf
coming into play, so you have two triggered abilities, both of which you
control, trying to go onto the stack at once. You decide their order, and
may put them on with the Insect-creation ability on top, resolving first,
and the Station-untapping ability on the bottom, resolving later. You
will then get an Insect token, which will trigger the Station's triggered
ability a SECOND time, and have time to use the Station's -activated-
ability before either use of the Station's _triggered_ ability can resolve.
(Or you can wait until the Station gets untapped because of the Insect
appearing, then use it again before the untap-from-the-Elf resolves.)

Or you can eat the Elf with the Station in response to _both_ triggered
abilities, before either one resolves... then wait for the Insect to
be made, which will untap the Station, after which you can eat the
Insect with the Station. And the Station will also get untapped from the
Elf coming into play, so you end up with an untapped, ready-to-use, Station.

>Question #2:
>Same situation as above, except this time I also have 2 insect tokens
>in play when I cast the non-token elf. Can I somehow sac the tokens
>to use the station twice, with the elf and insect coming into play?

Yes, sure, again; the Elf coming into play will trigger the Station and the
Hivemaster. You can put them on the stack in either order, use the Station
to eat one of the existing Insect tokens in response, wait for one of the two
untap triggered abilities to resolve, use the Station again to eat another of
the creatures, wait for the _other_ triggered ability to resolve (since the
Hivemaster's making a third Insect will trigger the Station again), and eat
a -third- creature with it.

>Question #3:
>This situation is similar to #2. Let's say my opponent cast
>Patriarch's Bidding, when I have 5 creatures and the Blasting Station
>in play, and 5 elves in the graveyard.

You can pick "Elf" for the Bidding, and get all five Elves back into play. This
will trigger the Station five times (and whatever opponent decides to get back
will trigger it some more, all at the same time). So you'll have five or more
instances of the Station's triggered ability to put onto the stack, and it
will untap (at least) five different times. meaning you'll be able to eat all
five Elves with it.

>Patriarch's Bidding 3BB Sorcery
> Each player chooses a creature type. Each player returns all creature cards
> of a type chosen this way from his or her graveyard to play.
>
>Obviously, I'm going to choose elves. Can I somehow use the station 5 times?

Yes, sure; it will trigger at -least- five times - more if opponent also gets
creatures back - and all of those triggered abilities will go on the stack.
Each will untap the Station, if it's in play and tapped, on resolution; each
resolves at a different time; each of them gives time -before- it resolves to
use activated abilities or cast Instant spells, just like anything else that
uses the stack.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) wrote in message news:<slrnccc21s.d4j.dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com>...

<snip answers to my questions>

First off, I wanted to thank everyone who answered my questions. Not
only that, but I really appreciate everyone who went into such great
depth to explain why it happens like it does.

I was an old-school magic player who left the game right after "the
stack" came in to replace the LIFO rules (for those who can remember
that) and just got back into playing about a year ago. So I'm still
learning nifty things that can happen with the stack.

So once again, thanks.

Second, I think I've discovered a great weapon for my elf deck....
Heh, heh, heh....

Third, and this specifically addressed to David: Can I get your
permission to print out your response? I have a feeling my revamped
elf deck is going to cause some problems at FNM, and I'd like to have
your explanation handy if any of the situations come up in play. (I
don't think this would be a problem, but I've run across situations
where some posters get pretty... irate... at the thought of someone
printing and using their posts.)

Thanks.

Scott

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On 8 Jun 2004 07:40:17 -0700, sfvajdos@hotmail.com (Scott Vajdos)
wrote:

>Blasting Station
>3
>Artifact
>[Tap], Sacrifice a creature: Blasting Station deals 1 damage to target
>creature or player. Whenever a creature comes into play, you may untap
>Blasting Station.
>
>Question #1:
>I was wondering how/if the timing worked with Wirewood Hivemaster:
>
>Wirewood Hivemaster
>1G
>Creature - Elf
>1/1
>Whenever another nontoken Elf comes into play, you may put a 1/1 green
>Insect creature token into play.
>
>Let's say I have the Station and Hivemaster in play. I cast another
>non-token elf, netting one insect token. Is there anyway to sac the
>insect to use the Station, then untapping because of the non-token
>elf? I don't think so, but I wanted to make sure.

Yes, you can. Well, not exactly in the order you put it, but...

Non-token elf comes into play -> Station untap and Hivemaster
effects trigger, you decide put-onto-stack order.
Put Hivemaster effect on stack, and untap on top of that.
If Station is untapped, you can tap it now if you have something
to sac.
Untap effect resolves.
Put insect token into play resolves.
Station untap effect goes onto stack (insect came into play).
Tap station to sac insect.
Untap effect resolves.

>Question #2:
>Same situation as above, except this time I also have 2 insect tokens
>in play when I cast the non-token elf. Can I somehow sac the tokens
>to use the station twice, with the elf and insect coming into play?

Yes, I have outlined in my explanation above the appropriate sac
timings - just add an extra at the bottom. If the Station started out
untapped, you could actually sac all three insects.

>Question #3:
>This situation is similar to #2. Let's say my opponent cast
>Patriarch's Bidding, when I have 5 creatures and the Blasting Station
>in play, and 5 elves in the graveyard.
>
>Patriarch's Bidding
>3BB
>Sorcery
>Each player chooses a creature type. Each player returns all creature
>cards of a type chosen this way from his or her graveyard to play.
>
>Obviously, I'm going to choose elves. Can I somehow use the station 5
>times?

Yes, I am pretty sure that the Station's untap effect will trigger
once for each elf coming into play - even if they come into play at
the same time.
You should ask somebody else though, if one of those elves happen to
be a Hivemaster - I think he would trigger for each of the others, but
I'm on pretty shaky ground there...

--
Regards
Simon Nejmann

 

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Simon Nejmann <snejmann@worldonline.REMOVETHIS.dk> wrote:
>Yes, I am pretty sure that the Station's untap effect will trigger
>once for each elf coming into play - even if they come into play at
>the same time.
>You should ask somebody else though, if one of those elves happen to
>be a Hivemaster - I think he would trigger for each of the others, but
>I'm on pretty shaky ground there...

Yes, it would; you check for triggered abilities triggering off "something
comes into play" just after the stuff has come into play, so a new Hivemaster's
ability will trigger off any _other_ creature that comes into play at the
same time (regardless of whose control the other creature appears under, too).

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Scott Vajdos <sfvajdos@hotmail.com> wrote:
>dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) wrote:

[stuff]

>Third, and this specifically addressed to David: Can I get your
>permission to print out your response?

Sure, if I'm the David you're talking to here.

>I have a feeling my revamped
>elf deck is going to cause some problems at FNM, and I'd like to have
>your explanation handy if any of the situations come up in play. (I
>don't think this would be a problem, but I've run across situations
>where some posters get pretty... irate... at the thought of someone
>printing and using their posts.)

I'm fine with it, pretty near always. It all follows from a couple of basic
principles:
a) things that trigger at the same time still go on the stack as separate
triggered abilities. If the same player controls them all (controller of a
triggered ability == controller of the source as it triggered), they decide
the order; if active player and opponent both have some, active player's go
on first, then opponent's do on top of them.
b) Before anything can resolve OFF the stack, both (all) players have to pass
in succession. Since you can't pass unless you have priority, and since if you
_have_ priority you can take an action or pass - this means both players get
at least once chance to add new stuff to the stack, or take non-stack actions,
before -each time- something resolves off the stack.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.