march of the machine and sculpting steel

[Phil]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Just wondering if I made a mistake here with this deck I've been
meaning to play test since darksteel came in. It was based on making
all indestructable artifacts into indestructable creatures and have
darksteel reactor keep its ability of making all artifacts that were
not indestructable into indestructable.

Does march of the machine actually remove any of the affected
artifact's other abilities ie would darksteel ingot loose its abilty
to produce any colour mana, would worldslayer loose its ability to
destroy all indestructable permanents (I know that being an equipment
and it cannot equip whilst march of machine is in play because march
of the machines does tell me that) .

would sculpting steel become a 3/3 even if I'd say coppied darksteel
reactor - I think the answer to that is yes but it would be nice to be
wrong ;-)

I know from an earilier text that all my artifact lands die which was
one reason why I did'nt go any further with it


Regards

Phil Hill

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Phil <phil@giltharn.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> Just wondering if I made a mistake here with this deck I've been
> meaning to play test since darksteel came in. It was based on making
> all indestructable artifacts into indestructable creatures and have
> darksteel reactor keep its ability of making all artifacts that were
> not indestructable into indestructable.

I don't see that last ability on Darksteel Reactor.

Darksteel Reactor
{4}
Artifact
Darksteel Reactor is indestructible. ("Destroy" effects and lethal
damage don't destroy it.)
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may put a charge counter on
Darksteel Reactor.
When Darksteel Reactor has twenty or more charge counters on it, you win
the game.

> Does march of the machine actually remove any of the affected
> artifact's other abilities ie would darksteel ingot loose its abilty
> to produce any colour mana, would worldslayer loose its ability to
> destroy all indestructable permanents (I know that being an equipment
> and it cannot equip whilst march of machine is in play because march
> of the machines does tell me that) .

I see nothing on March of the Machines which might remove abilities.
It's not Titania's Song.

March of the Machines
{3}{U}
Enchantment
Each noncreature artifact is an artifact creature with power and
toughness each equal to its converted mana cost. (Equipment that's a
creature can't equip a creature.)

Titania's Song
{3}{G}
Enchantment
Each noncreature artifact loses its abilities and becomes an artifact
creature with power and toughness each equal to its converted mana cost.
If Titania's Song leaves play, this effect continues until end of turn.

> would sculpting steel become a 3/3 even if I'd say coppied darksteel
> reactor - I think the answer to that is yes but it would be nice to be
> wrong ;-)

No, it would be a 4/4 if it was a copy of Darksteel Reactor.

Emphasis mine:

503.2. When copying an object, the copy acquires the copiable values of
the original object's characteristics (name, MANA COST, color, type,
supertype, subtype, expansion symbol, rules text, power, and toughness)
and, for an object on the stack, choices made when playing it (mode,
targets, the value of X, whether a kicker cost was paid, how it will
affect multiple targets, and so on). The "copiable values" are the
values that are printed on the object, as modified by other copy
effects, plus any values set for face-down spells or permanents. Other
effects (including type-changing effects) and counters are not copied.
Example: Chimeric Staff is an artifact that reads "{oX}: Chimeric Staff
becomes an X/X artifact creature until end of turn." Clone is a creature
that reads, "As Clone comes into play, you may choose a creature in
play. If you do, Clone comes into play as a copy of that creature."
After a Staff has become a 5/5 artifact creature, a Clone comes into
play as a copy of it. The Clone is an artifact, not a 5/5 artifact
creature. (The copy has the Staff's ability, however, and will become a
creature if that ability is activated.)
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

phil@giltharn.demon.co.uk (Phil) writes:
> Just wondering if I made a mistake here with this deck I've been
> meaning to play test since darksteel came in. It was based on making
> all indestructable artifacts into indestructable creatures and have
> darksteel reactor keep its ability of making all artifacts that were
> not indestructable into indestructable.

I think you meant Darksteel Forge here.

> Does march of the machine actually remove any of the affected
> artifact's other abilities

Nope. March of the Machines only does exactly what it says: It makes
noncreature artifacts gain the type "Creature" and sets their power
and toughness.

> ie would darksteel ingot loose its abilty to produce any colour
> mana,

No. It also keeps its "Darksteel Ingot is indestructible." ability.

> would worldslayer loose its ability to destroy all indestructable
> permanents (I know that being an equipment and it cannot equip
> whilst march of machine is in play because march of the machines
> does tell me that) .

I think you mean "destroy all permanents that are *not*
indestructible". It does have that ability, but as you imply it would
be impossible for it to trigger as there will never be an "equipped
creature" when March of the Machines is out.

> would sculpting steel become a 3/3 even if I'd say coppied darksteel
> reactor - I think the answer to that is yes but it would be nice to be
> wrong ;-)

Part of being a copy of something else includes being copying its mana
cost (and by extension, its converted mana cost). So, if Sculpting
Steel copied a (natively) noncreature artifact, it would have power
and toughness equal to the converted mana cost of the thing it was
copying.

> I know from an earilier text that all my artifact lands die which was
> one reason why I did'nt go any further with it

Yes. Lands have a mana cost of 0 (which makes sense, as you pay
nothing to play them), so they generally die when a March hits the
table.

--
Peter C.
"Did the table do something wrong?"
-- Troi, "Birthright, Part 1", Star Trek, The Next Generation

 

[Phil]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 10:11:59 -0500, panoptes@iquest.net (Daniel W.
Johnson) wrote:

>Phil <phil@giltharn.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Just wondering if I made a mistake here with this deck I've been
>> meaning to play test since darksteel came in. It was based on making
>> all indestructable artifacts into indestructable creatures and have
>> darksteel reactor keep its ability of making all artifacts that were
>> not indestructable into indestructable.
>
>I don't see that last ability on Darksteel Reactor.
>
>Darksteel Reactor
>{4}
>Artifact
>Darksteel Reactor is indestructible. ("Destroy" effects and lethal
>damage don't destroy it.)
>At the beginning of your upkeep, you may put a charge counter on
>Darksteel Reactor.
>When Darksteel Reactor has twenty or more charge counters on it, you win
>the game.
>

oopps
Sorry that should have been darksteel forge....I am getting my decks
mixed up :-/


>> Does march of the machine actually remove any of the affected
>> artifact's other abilities ie would darksteel ingot loose its abilty
>> to produce any colour mana, would worldslayer loose its ability to
>> destroy all indestructable permanents (I know that being an equipment
>> and it cannot equip whilst march of machine is in play because march
>> of the machines does tell me that) .
>
>I see nothing on March of the Machines which might remove abilities.
>It's not Titania's Song.
>
>March of the Machines
>{3}{U}
>Enchantment
>Each noncreature artifact is an artifact creature with power and
>toughness each equal to its converted mana cost. (Equipment that's a
>creature can't equip a creature.)
>
>Titania's Song
>{3}{G}
>Enchantment
>Each noncreature artifact loses its abilities and becomes an artifact
>creature with power and toughness each equal to its converted mana cost.
>If Titania's Song leaves play, this effect continues until end of turn.
>
>> would sculpting steel become a 3/3 even if I'd say coppied darksteel
>> reactor - I think the answer to that is yes but it would be nice to be
>> wrong ;-)
>
>No, it would be a 4/4 if it was a copy of Darksteel Reactor.
>
>Emphasis mine:
>
>503.2. When copying an object, the copy acquires the copiable values of
>the original object's characteristics (name, MANA COST, color, type,
>supertype, subtype, expansion symbol, rules text, power, and toughness)
>and, for an object on the stack, choices made when playing it (mode,
>targets, the value of X, whether a kicker cost was paid, how it will
>affect multiple targets, and so on). The "copiable values" are the
>values that are printed on the object, as modified by other copy
>effects, plus any values set for face-down spells or permanents. Other
>effects (including type-changing effects) and counters are not copied.
>Example: Chimeric Staff is an artifact that reads "{oX}: Chimeric Staff
>becomes an X/X artifact creature until end of turn." Clone is a creature
>that reads, "As Clone comes into play, you may choose a creature in
>play. If you do, Clone comes into play as a copy of that creature."
>After a Staff has become a 5/5 artifact creature, a Clone comes into
>play as a copy of it. The Clone is an artifact, not a 5/5 artifact
>creature. (The copy has the Staff's ability, however, and will become a
>creature if that ability is activated.)
>--
>Daniel W. Johnson
>panoptes@iquest.net
>http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
>039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 14:20:59 GMT, Phil <phil@giltharn.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Just wondering if I made a mistake here with this deck I've been
>meaning to play test since darksteel came in. It was based on making
>all indestructable artifacts into indestructable creatures and have
>darksteel reactor keep its ability of making all artifacts that were
>not indestructable into indestructable.

That's fine, yes.

>Does march of the machine actually remove any of the affected
>artifact's other abilities

No; it does not say it does. Compare it with Titania's song, which DOES say
the affected noncreature artifacts lose all abilities.

>ie would darksteel ingot loose

"lose"

>its abilty
>to produce any colour mana, would worldslayer [ditto] its ability to
>destroy all indestructable permanents (I know that being an equipment
>and it cannot equip whilst march of machine is in play because march
>of the machines does tell me that) .

Nope, those abilities would still be there. And as you note you could still
_use_ the Equip ability but on resolution it would Do Nothing because it
would be unable to attach the Equipment creature artifact to anything.

>would sculpting steel become a 3/3 even if I'd say coppied darksteel
>reactor - I think the answer to that is yes but it would be nice to be
>wrong ;-)

Nope. Sculpting Steel will not be a Sculpting Steel while in play (unless
you chose not to copy anything); it will be an exact, copy-level copy of
whatever it became. If it was currently being a Darksteel Reactor, its
converted mana cost would be 4, so it would be a 4/4 while animated by the
March.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

[Phil]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 11:39:48 -0400, pete@cooper.homedns.org (Peter
Cooper Jr.) wrote:

>phil@giltharn.demon.co.uk (Phil) writes:
>> Just wondering if I made a mistake here with this deck I've been
>> meaning to play test since darksteel came in. It was based on making
>> all indestructable artifacts into indestructable creatures and have
>> darksteel reactor keep its ability of making all artifacts that were
>> not indestructable into indestructable.
>
>I think you meant Darksteel Forge here.
>
>> Does march of the machine actually remove any of the affected
>> artifact's other abilities
>
>Nope. March of the Machines only does exactly what it says: It makes
>noncreature artifacts gain the type "Creature" and sets their power
>and toughness.
>
>> ie would darksteel ingot loose its abilty to produce any colour
>> mana,
>
>No. It also keeps its "Darksteel Ingot is indestructible." ability.
>
>> would worldslayer loose its ability to destroy all indestructable
>> permanents (I know that being an equipment and it cannot equip
>> whilst march of machine is in play because march of the machines
>> does tell me that) .
>
>I think you mean "destroy all permanents that are *not*
>indestructible". It does have that ability, but as you imply it would
>be impossible for it to trigger as there will never be an "equipped
>creature" when March of the Machines is out.
>
>> would sculpting steel become a 3/3 even if I'd say coppied darksteel
>> reactor - I think the answer to that is yes but it would be nice to be
>> wrong ;-)
>
>Part of being a copy of something else includes being copying its mana
>cost (and by extension, its converted mana cost). So, if Sculpting
>Steel copied a (natively) noncreature artifact, it would have power
>and toughness equal to the converted mana cost of the thing it was
>copying.
>
>> I know from an earilier text that all my artifact lands die which was
>> one reason why I did'nt go any further with it
>
>Yes. Lands have a mana cost of 0 (which makes sense, as you pay
>nothing to play them), so they generally die when a March hits the
>table.
>
>--
>Peter C.
>"Did the table do something wrong?"
> -- Troi, "Birthright, Part 1", Star Trek, The Next Generation


Thanks glad somebody knew what I meant....
the deck may well be worth giving a try after all

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Phil sez:

<<
>Just wondering if I made a mistake here with this deck I've been
>meaning to play test since darksteel came in. It was based on making
>all indestructable artifacts into indestructable creatures and have
>darksteel reactor keep its ability of making all artifacts that were
>not indestructable into indestructable.
>
>Does march of the machine actually remove any of the affected
>artifact's other abilities
>
>>

No. But this is a common question, because the card MotM is a direct port of,
Titania's Song, DID remove the affected artifacts' other abilities...March of
the Machines, however, does not. Because it doesn't SAY it does.

<<
>would sculpting steel become a 3/3 even if I'd say coppied darksteel
>reactor - I think the answer to that is yes but it would be nice to be
>wrong ;-)
>>

Well, in this case, it IS nice to be wrong, because Sculpting Steel copies
EVERYTHING about the artifact it copies...including that artifact's converted
mana cost. But, it only becomes a 4/4...unless you're thinking of Darksteel
FORGE...


----
"If President Bush is going to take credit for 'the invisble hand' [of
economics], then he's going to take the blame when 'the hand' gives him the
finger."
--From Fark.com