Protection from colors

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Hello!

Yesterday I had a very interesting situation, at least for me, with puzzled
both my opponent and me. But that's mainly because a) we are no experts in
magic and b) we are no experts in english.

This was the situation (card descriptions at the end):

My opponent had a Pristine Angel in play and I had a Fyndhorn Elder (simpe
1/1 creature) in play, equipped with a Whispersilk Cloak.
( ok, don't laugh, it was also enchanted with a Blanchwood Armor (+1/+1 for
each forest) and had lot's of forests ).
Both creatures were untapped.

Now my opponent did cast a Wrath of God (I hate it when he does this).

What happens to both those creatures?
We both were unsure what to do at this point.
After thinking it over now, I guess that both creatures should still be
alive after the Wrath of God.
WoG is white and Pristine Angel has "protection from all colors".
WoG is a spell and so the Fyndorn Elder is protected by the Whispersilk
Cloak because of the line saying: "can't be the target of spells or
abilities"

But I also read that Whispering Cloak is only a protection against cards
that say 'do something to TARGET creature', so in that case the Fyndhorn
elder still dies and the Pristine Angel stays alive?

Thanks in advance,
Marcel

----------
Pristine Angel (4)(P)(P)
Creature - Angel
Flying
As long as Pristine Angel is untapped,
it has protection from artifacts and
from all colors.
Whenever you play a spell, you may
untap Pristine Angel.
----------
Whispersilk Cloak (3)
Artifact - Equipment
Equipped creature is unblockable and
can't be the target of spells or abilities.
Equip (2)
----------
Wrath of God (2)(P)(P)
Sorcery
Destroy all creatures. They can't be
regenerated.
----------

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"Marcel Overweel" <moverweel@hotmail.com> writes:
> Hello!
>
> Yesterday I had a very interesting situation, at least for me, with
> puzzled both my opponent and me. But that's mainly because a) we are
> no experts in magic and b) we are no experts in english.

Well, we're happy to help here. Magic is also available in many
languages, so if it's available in your native language getting those
cards might help. Or it might not, as the rules are designed for the
English cards.

> This was the situation (card descriptions at the end):
>
> My opponent had a Pristine Angel in play and I had a Fyndhorn Elder
> (simpe 1/1 creature) in play, equipped with a Whispersilk Cloak. (
> ok, don't laugh, it was also enchanted with a Blanchwood Armor
> (+1/+1 for each forest) and had lot's of forests ). Both
> creatures were untapped.
>
> Now my opponent did cast a Wrath of God (I hate it when he does this).
>
> What happens to both those creatures?

They both die.

> We both were unsure what to do at this point.
> After thinking it over now, I guess that both creatures should still be
> alive after the Wrath of God.
> WoG is white and Pristine Angel has "protection from all colors".
> WoG is a spell and so the Fyndorn Elder is protected by the Whispersilk
> Cloak because of the line saying: "can't be the target of spells or
> abilities"
>
> But I also read that Whispering Cloak is only a protection against cards
> that say 'do something to TARGET creature', so in that case the Fyndhorn
> elder still dies and the Pristine Angel stays alive?

The word "target" means something very specific in Magic. (Which may
mean that getting non-English cards might not help after all... I'm
not sure how they handle this). A spell or ability only targets
something if it is one of:
- a local enchantment spell, in which case it targets its intended
enchantee
- a spell or ability that uses the word "target" (in its Oracle
wording at <http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dci/oracle>)

The word "protection" also means something very specific. "Protection
from X" means the following (and only the following):
- This can't be <D>amaged by sources with quality X
- This can't be <E>nchanted or equipped by sources with quality X
- This can't be <B>locked by sources with quality X
- This can't be <T>argeted by sources with quality X

You may be able to remember this better with the acronym DEBT.

Since Wrath of God doesn't target, the Cloak doesn't help, so the
Elder dies. Since it doesn't do any of the other things either, the
Protection doesn't help, so the Angel dies too.

> Thanks in advance,

You're very welcome. Please post again if you need more clarification
or have more questions.

--
Peter C.
"Well, yeah, if you want to look at it from a purely *correct* point
of view."
-- Jessi

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Marcel Overweel <moverweel@hotmail.com> sent:
> Hello!

> Yesterday I had a very interesting situation, at least for me, with puzzled
> both my opponent and me. But that's mainly because a) we are no experts in
> magic and b) we are no experts in english.

> This was the situation (card descriptions at the end):

> My opponent had a Pristine Angel in play and I had a Fyndhorn Elder (simpe
> 1/1 creature) in play, equipped with a Whispersilk Cloak.


Pristine Angel {4}{W}{W} Creature -- Angel 4/4
/ Flying
/ As long as Pristine Angel is untapped, it has protection from
artifacts and from all colors.
/ Whenever you play a spell, you may untap Pristine Angel.

Whispersilk Cloak {3} Artifact -- Equipment
/ Equipped creature is unblockable and can't be the target of spells or
abilities.
/ Equip {2}

> ( ok, don't laugh, it was also enchanted with a Blanchwood Armor (+1/+1 for
> each forest) and had lot's of forests ).

Make sure that you enchant the creature with the Blanchwood Armor before
you move the Whispersilk Cloak onto that creature. Once the cloak is
on, you won't be able to cast any further enchant creature spells on it,
as those spells target the creature to be enchanted while they're on
the stack.

> Both creatures were untapped.

OK, Pristine Angel has its protections.

> Now my opponent did cast a Wrath of God (I hate it when he does this).

Wrath of God {2}{W}{W} Sorcery
/ Destroy all creatures. They can't be regenerated.

> What happens to both those creatures?

They both get destroyed, and put into their owners' graveyards.

> We both were unsure what to do at this point.
> After thinking it over now, I guess that both creatures should still be
> alive after the Wrath of God.

Nope. They both die. The only things that remain after a Wrath of
God are things that are indestructible.

> WoG is white and Pristine Angel has "protection from all colors".

Protection from [X] does exactly four things. No more, and no less:

Damage from sources with quality [X] is prevented.
Enchanting and Equipping with permanents with quality [X] is illegal.
Blocking with creatures with quality [X] is illegal.
Targeting with spells with quality [X] or with abilities from sources with
quality [X] is illegal.

Note the initial letters spell out 'DEBT', a handy mnemonic.

Wrath of God doesn't specify that it does any of those things listed
above. Hence, protection does not intervene.

> WoG is a spell and so the Fyndorn Elder is protected by the Whispersilk
> Cloak because of the line saying: "can't be the target of spells or
> abilities"

Wrath of God doesn't target anything, so the Whispersilk Cloak will
not intervene.

> But I also read that Whispering Cloak is only a protection against cards
> that say 'do something to TARGET creature',

Or target permanent. Local enchantment spells on the stack also target
the permanent that they intend to enchant when they resolve.

> so in that case the Fyndhorn
> elder still dies and the Pristine Angel stays alive?

Both dead.

> Pristine Angel (4)(P)(P)

In general, we use the names of the colours in describing a mana cost,
not the names of particular lands that happen to produce those colours.
This is especially true in Oracle, the definitive source of card texts.
Rules and card texts are available at this address:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=magic/rules/tourneyplayer,,en

--
-- zoe

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On 16 Jun 2004 10:38:00 GMT, Zoe Stephenson <zrs1@uk.ac.york.reversed>
wrote:

>Marcel Overweel <moverweel@hotmail.com> sent:

>> Pristine Angel (4)(P)(P)
>
>In general, we use the names of the colours in describing a mana cost,
>not the names of particular lands that happen to produce those colours.

Just to clarify, the mana colors mana are WGRBU - with blUe being the
non-obvious.

--
Regards
Simon Nejmann

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Peter & Zoe, thank you both for your answers.
This clears up a lot and I am now beginning to understand some other cards
as well

Thanks!
Marcel


"Marcel Overweel" <moverweel@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:40d01665$0$46874$e4fe514c@dreader18.news.xs4all.nl...
> Hello!
>
> Yesterday I had a very interesting situation, at least for me, with
puzzled
> both my opponent and me. But that's mainly because a) we are no experts in
> magic and b) we are no experts in english.
>
> This was the situation (card descriptions at the end):
>
> My opponent had a Pristine Angel in play and I had a Fyndhorn Elder (simpe
> 1/1 creature) in play, equipped with a Whispersilk Cloak.
> ( ok, don't laugh, it was also enchanted with a Blanchwood Armor (+1/+1
for
> each forest) and had lot's of forests ).
> Both creatures were untapped.
>
> Now my opponent did cast a Wrath of God (I hate it when he does this).
>
> What happens to both those creatures?
> We both were unsure what to do at this point.
> After thinking it over now, I guess that both creatures should still be
> alive after the Wrath of God.
> WoG is white and Pristine Angel has "protection from all colors".
> WoG is a spell and so the Fyndorn Elder is protected by the Whispersilk
> Cloak because of the line saying: "can't be the target of spells or
> abilities"
>
> But I also read that Whispering Cloak is only a protection against cards
> that say 'do something to TARGET creature', so in that case the Fyndhorn
> elder still dies and the Pristine Angel stays alive?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Marcel
>
> ----------
> Pristine Angel (4)(P)(P)
> Creature - Angel
> Flying
> As long as Pristine Angel is untapped,
> it has protection from artifacts and
> from all colors.
> Whenever you play a spell, you may
> untap Pristine Angel.
> ----------
> Whispersilk Cloak (3)
> Artifact - Equipment
> Equipped creature is unblockable and
> can't be the target of spells or abilities.
> Equip (2)
> ----------
> Wrath of God (2)(P)(P)
> Sorcery
> Destroy all creatures. They can't be
> regenerated.
> ----------
>
>

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Marcel Overweel <moverweel@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Yesterday I had a very interesting situation, at least for me, with puzzled
>both my opponent and me. But that's mainly because a) we are no experts in
>magic and b) we are no experts in english.
>
>This was the situation (card descriptions at the end):
>
>My opponent had a Pristine Angel in play and I had a Fyndhorn Elder (simpe
>1/1 creature) in play, equipped with a Whispersilk Cloak.
>(ok, don't laugh, it was also enchanted with a Blanchwood Armor (+1/+1 for
>each forest) and had lot's of forests ).
>Both creatures were untapped.
>
>Now my opponent did cast a Wrath of God (I hate it when he does this).
>
>What happens to both those creatures?
>We both were unsure what to do at this point.

Both die. (Oh the embarrassment.) More precisely, both are destroyed by the
effect of Wrath of God, and are told they can't regenerate.

The Wrath does not target anything at all. It -affects- all creatures in
play; it does not TARGET any of them for any reason. So the Cloak's "equipped
creature can't be the target of spells or abilities" doesn't stop this in
any way. The Wrath also does not -damage- anything; it does not equip or
enchant anything; and it does not try to block any attacking creature. So
the Pristine Angel's protection from white doesn't do anything to stop the
Wrath from affecting the Angel either.

>After thinking it over now, I guess that both creatures should still be
>alive after the Wrath of God.

Nope.

>WoG is white and Pristine Angel has "protection from all colors".

Yep. So? All that does is stop things from trying to Damage, Enchant/Equip,
Block, or Target the Angel. It does not do anything else; in particular, it
is NOT a "sovereign remedy against anything white that might affect the Angel".

Wrath of God doesn't do any of those four things, so proWhite is useless
against it.

>WoG is a spell and so the Fyndorn Elder is protected by the Whispersilk
>Cloak because of the line saying: "can't be the target of spells or
>abilities"

Nope. Does Wrath of God _target_ anything? No, it does not. It will -affect-
all creatures in play, rather drastically - but the Cloak doesn't SAY "can't
be _affected by_ spells or abilities". It just stops targetting, which the
Wrath isn't trying to do.

>But I also read that Whispering Cloak is only a protection against cards
>that say 'do something to TARGET creature', so in that case the Fyndhorn
>elder still dies and the Pristine Angel stays alive?

Both die - because neither one has any Magic ability that would somehow stop
the Wrath from destroying them.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 11:44:05 +0200, "Marcel Overweel"
<moverweel@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Hello!
>
>Yesterday I had a very interesting situation, at least for me, with puzzled
>both my opponent and me. But that's mainly because a) we are no experts in
>magic and b) we are no experts in english.
>
>This was the situation (card descriptions at the end):
>
>My opponent had a Pristine Angel in play and I had a Fyndhorn Elder (simpe
>1/1 creature) in play, equipped with a Whispersilk Cloak.
>( ok, don't laugh, it was also enchanted with a Blanchwood Armor (+1/+1 for
>each forest) and had lot's of forests ).
>Both creatures were untapped.
>
>Now my opponent did cast a Wrath of God (I hate it when he does this).

Both creatures are destroyed.

Protection from X means that X cannot Damage, Enchant, Block, or
Target the creature that has Protection from X.

Wrath of God does not try to Damage, Enchant, Block, or Target
anything. It merely destroys them. Since none of your creatures are
indestructible, they are destroyed.