Tokens going to ... before dissolving

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Hello, All!

I know that the question "Do tokens hit the graveyard?" has been
discussed to death. I've just realized (or rather found an example when
it matters), though, that they hit *any* zone they are heading to before
dissolving there as well, triggering any relevant abilities. Let's say
that there is Warped Devotion on the table:

Warped Devotion
{2}{B}
Enchantment
Whenever a permanent is returned to a player's hand, that player
discards a card from his or her hand.

and a bunch of tokens with the same name - Soldiers, Insects, Pests,
Squirrels etc. If you Echoing Truth one of them:

Echoing Truth
{1}{U}
Instant
Return target nonland permanent and all other permanents with the same
name as that permanent to their owners' hands.

it returns all those tokens to their owner's hand, triggering Warped
Devotion that many times - making it a giant discard spell (by the time
Warped Devotion's abilities have gone on the stack the tokens have
already disappeared and the players *must discard real cards*).

Regards,
Arkady.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Arkady Zilberberg <arkadyz1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I know that the question "Do tokens hit the graveyard?" has been
>discussed to death.

Yep. They do, then dissolve as a state-based effect.

> I've just realized (or rather found an example when
>it matters), though, that they hit *any* zone they are heading to before
>dissolving there as well, triggering any relevant abilities.

Right.

This means that you can, for an extreme example (and about the only actually
RELEVANT one we've found, and believe me we've looked), cast a Withdraw
targetting your token copy of an Elvish Spirit Guide as the first target, and
another creature you control as the second... and actually USE the token ESG's
ability while it's momentarily in your hand, to get the 1 to pay Withdraw
with (thus leaving creature #2 where it is). [Or, of course, you can use
the ability and get the G and then _not_ pay anything, and bounce creature
#2 also... but have G in your mana pool afterwards.]

> Let's say that there is Warped Devotion on the table:
>
>Warped Devotion 2B Enchantment
> Whenever a permanent is returned to a player's hand, that player discards a
> card.

WD triggers just fine if a token permanent is returned to a player's hand, yes.

>and a bunch of tokens with the same name - Soldiers, Insects, Pests,
>Squirrels etc. If you Echoing Truth one of them:
>
>Echoing Truth 1U Instant
> Return target nonland permanent and all other permanents with the same
> name as that permanent to their owners' hands.

....the WD triggers for _each_ of the returned token creatures, yes. Just as
Soul Net would trigger for each of them if Wrath of God hit them all instead.

>it returns all those tokens to their owner's hand, triggering Warped
>Devotion that many times - making it a giant discard spell (by the time
>Warped Devotion's abilities have gone on the stack the tokens have
>already disappeared and the players *must discard real cards*).

Yep. Hee hee. This was in fact noted at the time...

Dave
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