Lethal Vapors vs Gamekeeper

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Hi again!

Here is the scenario that played out in a game recently

My opponent has in play these 2 creatures

Norwood Ranger
{G}
Creature -- Elf
1/2

Elvish Pioneer
{G}
Creature -- Elf Druid
1/1
When Elvish Pioneer comes into play, you may put a basic land card from your
hand into play tapped.

-- he then plays Eater of Days

Eater of Days
{4}
Artifact Creature -- Leviathan
9/8
Flying, trample
When Eater of Days comes into play, you skip your next two turns.

-- So he skiped his next to turns

I have in play Royal Assissin and 2 Relentless Rats

Royal Assassin
{1}{B}{B}
Creature -- Assassin
1/1
{T}: Destroy target tapped creature.

Relentless Rats
{1}{B}{B}
Creature -- Rat
2/2
Relentless Rats gets +1/+1 for each other creature in play named Relentless
Rats.
A deck can have any number of cards named Relentless Rats.

-- I then played my turn I attack with Relentless Rat and he blocks with
his Norwood Ranger - it is destroyed
-- It is now his turn - but he must skip : Skip 1
-- I play another Royal Assissin - end my turn
-- It is now his turn - but must skip : Skip 2
-- I play Lethal Vapors

Lethal Vapors
{2}{B}{B}
Enchantment
Whenever a creature comes into play, destroy it.
{0}: Destroy Lethal Vapors. You skip your next turn. Any player may play
this ability.

-- It is now his turn and he plays Gamekeeper

Gamekeeper
{3}{G}
Creature -- Elf
2/2
When Gamekeeper is put into a graveyard from play, you may remove Gamekeeper
from the game. If you do, reveal cards from the top of your library until
you reveal a creature card. Put that card into play and put the other cards
revealed this way into your graveyard.

-- Beacuse of my Lethal Vapors his Gamekeeper goes to the graveyard. He
looks through his library until he finds a creature. The Creature he finds
is Sundering Titan.

Sundering Titan
{8}
Artifact Creature
7/10
When Sundering Titan comes into play, choose a land of each basic land type,
then destroy those lands.
When Sundering Titan leaves play, choose a land of each basic land type,
then destroy those lands.

--** before putting Sundering Titan out, he plays the ability on Lethal
Vapors to destroy it. then he plays his Sundering Titan.

So is this legal? To me it would seem that the *entire* text of Gamekeeper
must resolve first before he can play the ability on Lethal Vapors.

My understanding is that you can play an ability any time so I wondered if
this was ok for him to do. But it would seem wrong to play it in the middle
of the resolution of a card - but then again, he had priority so it might be
ok to play another cards ability during the resolution.

Anyway is confusing to me - look forward to your responses!

Thanks,
NazMan

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

NazMan <cnazario@cinci.rr.com> wrote:
>My opponent has in play these 2 creatures
>
>Norwood Ranger G Creature -- Elf
>1/2
>Elvish Pioneer G Creature -- Elf Druid
>1/1 When ~ comes into play, you may put a basic land card from your hand into
> play tapped.

>-- he then plays Eater of Days
>
>Eater of Days 4 Artifact Creature -- Leviathan
>9/8 Flying, trample When ~ comes into play, you skip your next two turns.

....Okay. Before reading further, these three cards don't interact in any
particular way...

>-- So he skiped his next to turns

Okay. Meaning that you took three in a row. (The one you would normally have
taken after his turn, the one after his first skipped turn, then the one
after his second skipped turn.)

>I have in play Royal Assissin and 2 Relentless Rats

Okay. (Assassin's ability is currently fairly useless because nothing mentioned
so far is a tapped creature.)

>Royal Assassin 1BB Creature -- Assassin
>1/1 Tap: Destroy target tapped creature.
>Relentless Rats 1BB Creature -- Rat
>2/2 ~ gets +1/+1 for each other creature in play named ~. / A deck can have
> any number of cards named ~.

So each Rats is 3/3.

>-- I then played my turn I attack with Relentless Rat and he blocks with
>his Norwood Ranger - it is destroyed

Right.

>-- It is now his turn - but he must skip : Skip 1

Right.

>-- I play another Royal Assissin - end my turn

And didn't attack? Okay, that's fine.

>-- It is now his turn - but must skip : Skip 2

Right.

>-- I play Lethal Vapors
>
>Lethal Vapors 2BB Enchantment
> Whenever a creature comes into play, destroy it. / 0: Destroy ~. You skip
> your next turn. Any player may play this ability.

Ah.

>-- It is now his turn and he plays Gamekeeper
>
>Gamekeeper 3G Creature -- Elf
>2/2 When ~ is put into a graveyard from play, you may remove from the game.
> If you do, reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a
> creature card. Put that card into play and put the other cards revealed this
> way into your graveyard.
>
>-- Beacuse of my Lethal Vapors his Gamekeeper goes to the graveyard.

Right. From play, as a result of the Vapors' triggered ability. This probably
won't help him much unless the creature card he finds is indestructible...

>He looks through his library until he finds a creature. The Creature he finds
>is ~.

Ooo, ick.

>Sundering Titan 8 Artifact Creature
>7/10 When ~ comes into play, choose a land of each basic land type, then
> destroy those lands. / When ~ leaves play, choose a land of each basic land
> type, then destroy those lands.

Oookay. It's his turn, so the Vapors ability of yours will go on the stack on
top of his Titan's comes-into-play ability. So, in order:
Vapors ability resolves, destroys Titan; Titan's leaves-play ability triggers
and goes on the stack
Titan's leaves-play ability resolves, he chooses and destroys lands.
Titan's comes-into-play ability resolves, he chooses and destroys lands.

>--** before putting Sundering Titan out, he plays the ability on Lethal
>Vapors to destroy it. then he plays his Sundering Titan.

....Um.

>So is this legal? To me it would seem that the *entire* text of Gamekeeper
>must resolve first before he can play the ability on Lethal Vapors.

Yes, it's not legal. He doesn't have priority partway through resolving the
Gamekeeper ability; he can't use the Vapors ability until AFTER the Titan is
in play and the Vapors has already triggered and gone onto the stack.

[He can of course respond to the Gamekeeper ability by destroying the Vapors,
but then he does so before starting to reveal cards at all, and generally at
this time he does not know what creature card will end up appearing.]

>My understanding is that you can play an ability any time

No. Not quite.

You can play an activated ability, or cast an Instant spell, any time _you
have priority_. Nobody has priority in the middle of an announcement or in
the middle of a resolution. [Also, nobody has priority "at the beginning of"
a step or phase, or while attackers or blockers are being declared, or during
the entire untap step, or during most cleanup steps.]

[Activated mana abilities can _also_ be played any time you're asked to pay
mana, so can be played during many announcements and some resolutions - but
Lethal Vapors' ability isn't a mana ability.]

>But it would seem wrong to play it in the middle
>of the resolution of a card - but then again, he had priority so it might be
>ok to play another cards ability during the resolution.

He didn't have priority; nobody has priority between the time the second one
of you passes (before resolution can start) and the time triggered abilities
go on the stack (after resolution is entirely finished). After that, active
player (him) actually has priority... but not before then.

Dave
--
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