Nightmare and Damage

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Hello all,


My opponent has Nightmare in play and has 5 Swamps under his control.

Nightmare
{5}{B}
Creature -- Nightmare
*/*
Flying
Nightmare's power and toughness are each equal to the number of Swamps you
control.


I play Volcanic Hammer on his Nightmare

Volcanic Hammer
{1}{R}
Sorcery
Volcanic Hammer deals 3 damage to target creature or player.



My understanding is that after I play my VH on his Nightmare it is 5/5 Flyer
with 3 damage. AND will remain so through the end of my turn. Is that
correct? However if by the end of my turn I do not send it to the graveyard
it will be back to a 5/5 Flyer at the beginning/start(??) of his turn.

Thanks for your replies in advanced.

NazMan

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

NazMan <cnazario@cinci.rr.com> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
>
> My opponent has Nightmare in play and has 5 Swamps under his control.
>
> Nightmare
> {5}{B}
> Creature -- Nightmare
> */*
> Flying
> Nightmare's power and toughness are each equal to the number of Swamps you
> control.
>
>
> I play Volcanic Hammer on his Nightmare
>
> Volcanic Hammer
> {1}{R}
> Sorcery
> Volcanic Hammer deals 3 damage to target creature or player.
>
>
>
> My understanding is that after I play my VH on his Nightmare it is 5/5 Flyer
> with 3 damage. AND will remain so through the end of my turn. Is that
> correct?

Specifically, until the beginning of your cleanup step, yes.

314. Cleanup Step

314.1. If the active player's hand contains more cards than his or her
maximum hand size (normally seven), he or she discards enough cards to
reduce the hand size to that number (this game action doesn't use the
stack).

314.2 Simultaneously, all damage is removed from permanents and all
"until end of turn" and "this turn" effects end (this game action
doesn't use the stack).

314.3 If the conditions for any state-based effects exist or if any
triggered abilities are waiting to be put onto the stack, the active
player gets priority and players may play spells and abilities. Once the
stack is empty and both players pass, another cleanup step begins.
Otherwise, no player receives priority and the step ends.

> However if by the end of my turn I do not send it to the graveyard
> it will be back to a 5/5 Flyer at the beginning/start(??) of his turn.

It will have remained a 5/5 flyer the entire time.
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

NazMan wrote:

> Hello all,
>
>
> My opponent has Nightmare in play and has 5 Swamps under his control.
>
> Nightmare
> {5}{B}
> Creature -- Nightmare
> */*
> Flying
> Nightmare's power and toughness are each equal to the number of Swamps you
> control.
>
>
> I play Volcanic Hammer on his Nightmare
>
> Volcanic Hammer
> {1}{R}
> Sorcery
> Volcanic Hammer deals 3 damage to target creature or player.
>
>
>
> My understanding is that after I play my VH on his Nightmare it is 5/5
> Flyer with 3 damage. AND will remain so through the end of my turn. Is
> that correct?

Absolutely.

> However if by the end of my turn I do not send it to the
> graveyard it will be back to a 5/5 Flyer at the beginning/start(??) of his
> turn.

Well, at no point in the events described above is it ever *not* a 5/5
Flyer. However, at the beginning of his turn, it will no longer have
any damage on it. Note that if you can eliminate two of his swamps before
the end of your turn, it will become a 3/3 with three damage and die...

--
Christopher Mattern

"Which one you figure tracked us?"
"The ugly one, sir."
"...Could you be more specific?"

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:49:55 GMT, NazMan <cnazario@cinci.rr.com> wrote:
>My opponent has Nightmare in play and has 5 Swamps under his control.
>
>Nightmare 5B Creature -- Nightmare
>*/* Flying ~'s power and toughness are each equal to the number of Swamps you
> control.

So it's currently 5/5 Flying.

>I play Volcanic Hammer on his Nightmare
>
>Volcanic Hammer 1R Sorcery
>Volcanic Hammer deals 3 damage to target creature or player.

Okay. Afterwards his Nightmare will be 5/5 with 3 damage on it.

>My understanding is that after I play my VH on his Nightmare it is 5/5 Flyer
>with 3 damage. AND will remain so through the end of my turn. Is that
>correct?

Right. In fact, "until end of turn" is exactly how long the damage stays;
damage gets removed from all permanents during Cleanup step, simultaneously
with "until end of turn"/"this turn" effects wearing off.

>However if by the end of my turn I do not send it to the graveyard
>it will be back to a 5/5 Flyer at the beginning/start(??) of his turn.

Yep. The damage will be removed during your Cleanup step; after that, before
his turn can start even, it will return to being undamaged.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

> My opponent has Nightmare in play and has 5 Swamps under his control.
> I play Volcanic Hammer on his Nightmare
>
> My understanding is that after I play my VH on his Nightmare it is 5/5
Flyer
> with 3 damage. AND will remain so through the end of my turn. Is that
> correct? However if by the end of my turn I do not send it to the
graveyard
> it will be back to a 5/5 Flyer at the beginning/start(??) of his turn.

Damage on creatures goes away during the cleanup step at the end of each
player's turn. So yes, it will keep the 3 damage until the end of your turn,
at which point it will be removed.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

NazMan, worshipped by llamas the world over, wrote...
> Hello all,

> My understanding is that after I play my VH on his Nightmare it is 5/5 Flyer
> with 3 damage. AND will remain so through the end of my turn. Is that
> correct? However if by the end of my turn I do not send it to the graveyard
> it will be back to a 5/5 Flyer at the beginning/start(??) of his turn.
>
> Thanks for your replies in advanced.

I'm just wondering - any special reason you were asking about Nightmare,
or would any random 5/5 creature have done?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

NazMan sez:

<<
>Hello all,
>
>
>My opponent has Nightmare in play and has 5 Swamps under his >control.
>
>Nightmare
>{5}{B}
>Creature -- Nightmare
>*/*
>Flying
>Nightmare's power and toughness are each equal to the number of Swamps you
>control.
>
>
>I play Volcanic Hammer on his Nightmare
>
>Volcanic Hammer
>{1}{R}
>Sorcery
>Volcanic Hammer deals 3 damage to target creature or player.
>
>
>
>My understanding is that after I play my VH on his Nightmare it is 5/5 Flyer
>with 3 damage. AND will remain so through the end of my turn. Is that
>correct? However if by the end of my turn I do not send it to the graveyard
>it will be back to a 5/5 Flyer at the beginning/start(??) of his turn.

>
>>

Yep. That's the gist of it. Though actually, it will be back to a 5/5 Flyer
at the very end of your turn.


----
"I feel like 'Cactus Gavvy' Cravath. Do you know who that is? Right. Nobody
does. He's the guy who had the home run record before Babe Ruth came along."
--Tom Walsh, whom Ken Jennings passed to become winningest ever Jeopardy!
champion

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

NazMan <cnazario@cinci.rr.com> wrote:

> So it seems that at the begininng of each turn any creature
> with "*/* for P/T AND has this type of text - no conditions - is what the
> text says.

How are you getting "at the begininng[sic] of each turn" from
"Nightmare's power and toughness are each equal to the number of Swamps
you control."?

It's not as if it said "Nightmare's power and toughness are each equal
to the number of Swamps you controlled at the beginning of the turn."
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W

 

[peter]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"NazMan" <cnazario@cinci.rr.com> wrote in message news:<Dy_Ic.212827$DG4.174682@fe2.columbus.rr.com>...
> Hello all,
>
>
> My opponent has Nightmare in play and has 5 Swamps under his control.
>
> Nightmare
> {5}{B}
> Creature -- Nightmare
> */*
> Flying
> Nightmare's power and toughness are each equal to the number of Swamps you
> control.
>
>
> I play Volcanic Hammer on his Nightmare
>
> Volcanic Hammer
> {1}{R}
> Sorcery
> Volcanic Hammer deals 3 damage to target creature or player.
>
>
>
> My understanding is that after I play my VH on his Nightmare it is 5/5 Flyer
> with 3 damage. AND will remain so through the end of my turn. Is that
> correct? However if by the end of my turn I do not send it to the graveyard
> it will be back to a 5/5 Flyer at the beginning/start(??) of his turn.

Answering the question you didn't quite ask:
The Nightmare's P/T are exactly equal to the number of swamps its
controller controls at any given time. So, if they play a Swamp, the
Nightmare is immediately 1/1 bigger (a 6/6 in this case). If you then
destroy a Swamp, or turn it into an Island or something, the Nightmare
reduces in size, immediately when the Swamp is destroyed/changed.

It's not a triggered ability of any sort. Its P/T just *IS* the
number of Swamps.

So.... If your opponent had a 5/5 Nightmare (5 Swamps) and you hit it
with a Volcanic Hammer, then destroyed two of his Swamps, it'd become
a 3/3 Nightmare with 3 damage and die at the next opportunity
(state-based effects, right before a player gets priority).

Peter

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

NazMan wrote:

> of the text. Here Nightmare's text does not mention anything about
> "whenever", "at end of xx" or any other conditional text that would cause
> special considerations. So it seems that at the begininng of each turn any
> creature with "*/* for P/T AND has this type of text - no conditions - is
> what the text says.
>
Um, no. Nightmare's ability has nothing to do with the beginning of the
turn or any other specific time. It is *continuous*. Nightmare's P/T
fluctuates as the number of swamps its controller controls increase or
decrease *as that happens.* In your above example, a Nightmare with
three damage whose controller controls five swamps, if two of those
swamps are destroyed, the Nightmare would *immediately* become a 3/3
and die on the spot.
--
Christopher Mattern

"Which one you figure tracked us?"
"The ugly one, sir."
"...Could you be more specific?"

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:49:55 GMT, "NazMan" <cnazario@cinci.rr.com>
wrote:

>My understanding is that after I play my VH on his Nightmare it is 5/5 Flyer
>with 3 damage. AND will remain so through the end of my turn. Is that
>correct? However if by the end of my turn I do not send it to the graveyard
>it will be back to a 5/5 Flyer at the beginning/start(??) of his turn.

Yes, if he still has 5 swamps in play at that time.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 02:51:47 GMT, Jeff Heikkinen <oh@s.if> wrote:
>NazMan, worshipped by llamas the world over, wrote...
>> My understanding is that after I play my VH on his Nightmare it is 5/5 Flyer
>> with 3 damage. AND will remain so through the end of my turn. Is that
>> correct? However if by the end of my turn I do not send it to the graveyard
>> it will be back to a 5/5 Flyer at the beginning/start(??) of his turn.
>>
>> Thanks for your replies in advanced.
>
>I'm just wondering - any special reason you were asking about Nightmare,
>or would any random 5/5 creature have done?

From the way his question went, any one would do. I was sort of expecting a
continuation along the lines of "Then I return two of his Swamps to the top
of his library; does this kill the Nightmare?" [answer: yes], but that wasn't
what he was asking about.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Jeff Heikkinen wrote:
> NazMan, worshipped by llamas the world over, wrote...
>
>>"Jeff Heikkinen" <oh@s.if> wrote in message
>>news:MPG.1b5e5bf52829b59c989df2@news.easynews.com...
>>
>>>NazMan, worshipped by llamas the world over, wrote...
>>>
>>>>Hello all,
>>>
>>>>My understanding is that after I play my VH on his Nightmare it is 5/5
>>
>>Flyer
>>
>>>>with 3 damage. AND will remain so through the end of my turn. Is that
>>>>correct? However if by the end of my turn I do not send it to the
>>
>>graveyard
>>
>>>>it will be back to a 5/5 Flyer at the beginning/start(??) of his turn.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks for your replies in advanced.
>>>
>>>I'm just wondering - any special reason you were asking about Nightmare,
>>>or would any random 5/5 creature have done?
>>
>>Jeff,
>>
>>I was asking really from the standpoint of any "*/*" (or a variant of that)
>>creature. With Nightmare I presume that as my opponent adds Swamps or has
>>them removed Nightmare will morph to that P/T creature. Seems that this type
>>P/T "rating"(?? - not sure if this is the right/good term) makes for a
>>rather dynamic creature. I am trying to be clear in my understanding of the
>>text. Here Nightmare's text does not mention anything about "whenever", "at
>>end of xx" or any other conditional text that would cause special
>>considerations. So it seems that at the begininng of each turn any creature
>>with "*/* for P/T AND has this type of text - no conditions - is what the
>>text says.
>
>
> Well, not at the beginning of the turn - or rather, not JUST then - but
> ANY time the number of swamps its controller has changes. It's
> constantly being updated; play a swamp, your Nightmare (or Dakmor
> Sorceress) gets bigger immediately.
>
>

Another way to look at this is : whenever the game needs a creature's
power or toughness, it checks asks the creature. Nightmare's reply for
both power and toughness, barring any other effects, would be : 'the
number of swamps my controller controls', which the game could then count.
This view avoids the 'constantly updated' problem.

<snip>