Coat of Arms & creatures with multiple types

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"Scott Vajdos" <sfvajdos@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:42d15bb3.0407160954.3e1dd47d@posting.google.com...
> I was just wondering about something concering Coat of Arms:
>
> Coat of Arms
> 5
> Artifact
> Each creature gets +1/+1 for each other creature in play that shares a
> creature type with it. (For example, if there are three Goblins in
> play, each gets +2/+2.)

> Situation 1: I have a Leonin Elder (Cat Cleric) and a Leonin
> Den-Guard (Cat Soldier) in play. Someone drops a Coat of Arms. Do my
> creatures get a bonus? My gut feeling is yeah--they're both cats.
> However, it could be argued that "cat cleric" is a different creature
> type than "cat soldier".

"Cat", "Cleric" and "Soldier" are different creature types. "Cat Soldier"
and "Cat Cleric" do in fact share the creature type "Cat." However, if
Leonin Elder was a "Cat-Cleric", it would be neither a Cat nor a Cleric, but
rather a Cat-Cleric. The space (or dash) between the words is the important
part here. So, to answer your question, yes, your Elder and Den-Guard would
each get +1/+1. If you dropped a Disciple of the Vault (Cleric), your
Disciple would get +1/+1 (from the other Cleric, the Elder), the Den-Guard
would get +1/+1 (from the other Cat, the Elder), and the Elder would get
+2/+2 (+1/+1 from the other Cleric, the Disciple, and +1/+1 from the other
Cat, the Den-Guard). (Um, just a note to clarify, my wording may be
confusing here - the bonuses don't come "from" the other creatures, but
rather from the Coat of Arms - I was just using "from" to refer to the other
creatures.)


> Situation 2: I have a Auriok Salvagers (Human Soldier), a Leonin
> Den-Guard (Cat Soldier), and Banalish Heralds (Soldier) in play.
> Someone drops a Coat of Arms. Once again, do my creatures get a
> bonus?

Yep. They all get a +2/+2 bonus (one for each other soldier...and assuming
your opponent controls no other soldiers).

> I guess part of my confusion comes from the wording of Coat of Arms.
> When everything just was one creature type, yeah, it was simple. But
> for some reason, this is throwing me for a slight loop.

There's a semi-relevant article about the race-class thing on
magicthegathering.com today.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/af23


HTH.

--

KB

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Scott Vajdos <sfvajdos@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I was just wondering about something concering Coat of Arms:
>
> Coat of Arms
> 5
> Artifact
> Each creature gets +1/+1 for each other creature in play that shares a
> creature type with it. (For example, if there are three Goblins in
> play, each gets +2/+2.)
>
> To me at least, this is pretty simple. But what happens when
> different creatures with multiple types are in play? For example....
>
> Situation 1: I have a Leonin Elder (Cat Cleric) and a Leonin
> Den-Guard (Cat Soldier) in play. Someone drops a Coat of Arms. Do my
> creatures get a bonus? My gut feeling is yeah--they're both cats.

Yes. Leonin Elder gets a +1/+1 for Leonin Den-Guard because it shares a
creature type (cat) with it. And vice versa.

> However, it could be argued that "cat cleric" is a different creature
> type than "cat soldier".

No, it's a different pair of creature types.

212.3c Creature subtypes are always a single word and are listed after a
long dash: "Creature -- Minotaur," "Artifact Creature -- Golem Legend,"
etc. Creature subtypes are also called creature types. Creatures may
have multiple subtypes.
Example: "Creature -- Goblin Wizard" means the card is a creature with
the subtypes Goblin and Wizard.

> Situation 2: I have a Auriok Salvagers (Human Soldier), a Leonin
> Den-Guard (Cat Soldier), and Banalish Heralds (Soldier) in play.
> Someone drops a Coat of Arms. Once again, do my creatures get a
> bonus?

Yes. At least +2/+2 in each case (depending on whether your opponent
also has any soldiers, humans, or cats).

> I guess part of my confusion comes from the wording of Coat of Arms.
> When everything just was one creature type, yeah, it was simple. But
> for some reason, this is throwing me for a slight loop.

Coat of Arms first appeared in Exodus, with the text "Each creature gets
+1/+1 for each other creature in play of the same creature type."
Creatures with more than one creature type had already appeared before
that, so relevant rulings were made by Barclay and D'Angelo soon after
its release.
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"Mark Landin" <mark.landin@tdwilliamson.com> wrote in message
news:kf7gf018s6ko202usessis85tnuhegj0bl@4ax.com...
>
> If a creature has multiple types, they are each counted for the
> purposes of bonuses. If you have 2 Cat Knights in play with a CoA,
> each with get +1/+1 for another Cat being in play, and another +1/+1
> for another Knight being in play. This is because "Cat Knight" is not
> one creature type, it is 2 independent creatures types.

I don't believe that's true, for the purposes of Coat of Arms, anyway. Coat
of Arms doesn't care how many creature types 2 (or more) creatures share, it
only cares that they share at least 1. And if they do share more than one,
it does not give bonuses based on how many shared creature types there are,
but rather how many *creatures* that share (at least 1) creature type.

Coat of Arms
5
Artifact
Each creature gets +1/+1 for each other creature in play that shares a
creature type with it. (For example, if there are three Goblins in
play, each gets +2/+2.)

So, if there are 2 Cat Knights in play, each would get +1/+1, because there
is only one other *creature* that does share a creature type. If the card
was worded thusly:

Coat of Arms
5
Artifact
Each creature gets +1/+1 for each other creature ***type*** in play that
shares a
creature type with it. (For example, if there are three Goblins in
play, each gets +2/+2.)

then it would work as you describe.

>
> Note that many (but not all) artifact creatures do NOT have a creature
> type, so CoA ignores them.

Quite true, as "Artifact Creature" is not a valid creature type.

--

KB

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On 16 Jul 2004 10:54:57 -0700, Scott Vajdos <sfvajdos@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I was just wondering about something concering Coat of Arms:
>
>Coat of Arms 5 Artifact
>Each creature gets +1/+1 for each other creature in play that shares a
>creature type with it. (For example, if there are three Goblins in
>play, each gets +2/+2.)

(Before reading further: it counts creatures. It doesn't count creature _types_
at all - it just sees if two creatures share any.

>To me at least, this is pretty simple. But what happens when
>different creatures with multiple types are in play? For example....

Each creature looks for all the other creatures in play it shares a type with.
It counts those _creatures_ (not the _number of types they share), and gets
+N/+N where N is the number of other such creatures.

>Situation 1: I have a Leonin Elder (Cat Cleric) and a Leonin
>Den-Guard (Cat Soldier) in play. Someone drops a Coat of Arms. Do my
>creatures get a bonus? My gut feeling is yeah--they're both cats.

Yes. Each shares the creature type "Cat" with the other. Coat of Arms doesn't
ask if there are types they don't share.

>However, it could be argued that "cat cleric" is a different creature
>type than "cat soldier".

No. Both of those are _two_ creature types; creature types are one word only.

>Situation 2: I have a Auriok Salvagers (Human Soldier), a Leonin
>Den-Guard (Cat Soldier), and Banalish Heralds (Soldier) in play.
>Someone drops a Coat of Arms. Once again, do my creatures get a
>bonus?

Yes; all three get +2/+2, because each of them sees two other Soldiers in play.
(Also, notice that _opponent's_ Soldiers also contribute; Coat of Arms doesn't
say anything about "other creatures _you control_ that share a...".

>I guess part of my confusion comes from the wording of Coat of Arms.
>When everything just was one creature type, yeah, it was simple. But
>for some reason, this is throwing me for a slight loop.

Creatures affected by Coat of Arms look for other creatures that share any
of their creature types, and count up how many other such creatures there are.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On 17 Jul 2004 06:57:14 -0400, dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney)
wrote:

>>If a creature has multiple types, they are each counted for the
>>purposes of bonuses. If you have 2 Cat Knights in play with a CoA,
>>each with get +1/+1 for another Cat being in play, and another +1/+1
>>for another Knight being in play. This is because "Cat Knight" is not
>>one creature type, it is 2 independent creatures types.

>Not correct; read the card please. Coat of Arms does NOT say "for each other
>type shared with it by another creature in play, per creature that shares that
>type". It counts -creatures-. If two Cat Knights are the only creatures in
>play, each will get +1/+1 from the other ... because there is ONE other
>creature in play that it shares a type or types with.

OK. I thought is was more of "OK, all Cats raise your hand ... 2 of
you, you each get 2-1 or +1/+1. Ok, all Knights raise your hand ...
again, 2 of you, so another +1/+1 for each of you. Ok, any creatures
from Miami in the crowd tonight...?"

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:45:13 -0500, panoptes@iquest.net (Daniel W.
Johnson) wrote:

>Mark Landin <mark.landin@tdwilliamson.com> wrote:
>
>> OK. I thought is was more of "OK, all Cats raise your hand ... 2 of
>> you, you each get 2-1 or +1/+1. Ok, all Knights raise your hand ...
>> again, 2 of you, so another +1/+1 for each of you. Ok, any creatures
>> from Miami in the crowd tonight...?"
>
>Coat of Arms's "Each creature gets +1/+1 for each other creature in play
>that shares a creature type with it." is not going to give more of a
>bonus than a hypothetical "Each creature gets +1/+1 for each other
>creature in play."

Thanks. It's all clear to me now!