Thieves' Auction - two templating questions

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Thieves' Auction
Sorcery 4RRR
Set aside all nontoken permanents. Starting with you, each player
chooses one of the cards set aside and puts it into play tapped under
his or her control. Repeat this process until all those cards have been
chosen.

Two questions about the templates here. As far as I know neither makes
a functional difference (if anyone spots one, please point it out!)

1. Why "set aside" and not "remove from the game"?

2. I notice that on the most recent printed version of this card
(Eighth Edition) it says "cards in play" rather than "nontoken
permanents", which I had thought was an old, no-longer-used template.
Any special reason for the difference between the printed and Oracle
wording?

Do they template cards in the basic set differently from cards in Expert
expansions? If so, that still doesn't explain question 1...

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 06:03:25 GMT, Jeff Heikkinen <oh@s.if> wrote:

>
>Thieves' Auction
>Sorcery 4RRR
>Set aside all nontoken permanents. Starting with you, each player
>chooses one of the cards set aside and puts it into play tapped under
>his or her control. Repeat this process until all those cards have been
>chosen.
>
>Two questions about the templates here. As far as I know neither makes
>a functional difference (if anyone spots one, please point it out!)
>
>1. Why "set aside" and not "remove from the game"?
>
I think this was so that TA wouldn't trigger either "leaves play" or
"comes into play" triggers. "Set aside" is still "in play."

I have no idea about your second question.

-- pseudosoldier

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

pseudosoldier@hotmail.com (pseudosoldier) writes:
> On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 06:03:25 GMT, Jeff Heikkinen <oh@s.if> wrote:
> > 1. Why "set aside" and not "remove from the game"?
>
> I think this was so that TA wouldn't trigger either "leaves play" or
> "comes into play" triggers. "Set aside" is still "in play."

That's not quite what the rulebook says...

,----[ Magic Comp. Rules Glossary ]
| Set Aside
| To set aside a card is to remove it from the game; however, the
| effect will specify some condition that allows the set-aside card to
| return to the game. See also Removed from the Game.
`----

I suspect that the wording was to save space and to make it slightly
easier for newer players to understand. But that's just my guess.

--
Peter C.
Strip mining prevents forest fires.

 

[peter]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

pete@cooper.homedns.org (Peter Cooper Jr.) wrote in message news:<86zn5u3ktz.fsf@pcpc.cooper.homedns.org>...
> pseudosoldier@hotmail.com (pseudosoldier) writes:
> > On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 06:03:25 GMT, Jeff Heikkinen <oh@s.if> wrote:
> > > 1. Why "set aside" and not "remove from the game"?
> >
> > I think this was so that TA wouldn't trigger either "leaves play" or
> > "comes into play" triggers. "Set aside" is still "in play."
>
> That's not quite what the rulebook says...
>
> ,----[ Magic Comp. Rules Glossary ]
> | Set Aside
> | To set aside a card is to remove it from the game; however, the
> | effect will specify some condition that allows the set-aside card to
> | return to the game. See also Removed from the Game.
> `----
>
> I suspect that the wording was to save space and to make it slightly
> easier for newer players to understand. But that's just my guess.


Sooo.... If there are an even number of permanents in play, and one is
a Phage, and I play Thieves Auction, I can win the game?

Neato.
Peter

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

knucklehead000@yahoo.com (Peter) writes:
> Sooo.... If there are an even number of permanents in play, and one is
> a Phage, and I play Thieves Auction, I can win the game?

That does sound correct. If there are an odd number, you will likely
lose the game. However, if a Phage is in play, there are usually
easier ways to make it win you the game then playing this card.

--
Peter C.
A chicken is an egg's way of producing more eggs

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

pseudosoldier, worshipped by llamas the world over, wrote...
> On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 06:03:25 GMT, Jeff Heikkinen <oh@s.if> wrote:
>
> >
> >Thieves' Auction
> >Sorcery 4RRR
> >Set aside all nontoken permanents. Starting with you, each player
> >chooses one of the cards set aside and puts it into play tapped under
> >his or her control. Repeat this process until all those cards have been
> >chosen.
> >
> >Two questions about the templates here. As far as I know neither makes
> >a functional difference (if anyone spots one, please point it out!)
> >
> >1. Why "set aside" and not "remove from the game"?
> >
> I think this was so that TA wouldn't trigger either "leaves play" or
> "comes into play" triggers. "Set aside" is still "in play."

No, the rulebook specifically mentions it:

217.7a Effects can remove objects from the game. Some effects may
provide a way for a card to return to a zone and use the term "set
aside." Cards that are set aside this way are still removed from the
game, even though that removal may be temporary. Objects that aren't
cards can't be returned in any way.

So it's a subset of the Removed from the Game zone, not the In Play
zone.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 06:03:25 GMT, Jeff Heikkinen <oh@s.if> wrote:
>Thieves' Auction Sorcery 4RRR
>Set aside all nontoken permanents. Starting with you, each player
>chooses one of the cards set aside and puts it into play tapped under
>his or her control. Repeat this process until all those cards have been
>chosen.
>
>Two questions about the templates here. As far as I know neither makes
>a functional difference (if anyone spots one, please point it out!)
>
>1. Why "set aside" and not "remove from the game"?

Leftover templates, essentially. They used to make a distinction between
"set aside" - this gets some way to come back sometime - and "removed from
the game" - doesn't also give a way to get it back. Currently only Scroll Rack
and Thieves' Auction use the "set aside" wording - but it means "remove from
the game", yes.

>2. I notice that on the most recent printed version of this card
>(Eighth Edition) it says "cards in play" rather than "nontoken
>permanents", which I had thought was an old, no-longer-used template.
>Any special reason for the difference between the printed and Oracle
>wording?

Eighth Edition came out (and was templated before then) before they decided
to go with "nontoken permanents" as the standard, I think. They do do the same
thing - a permanent's either a card or a token, there's nothing else it can
be, so nontoken ones are cards...

>Do they template cards in the basic set differently from cards in Expert
>expansions?

Probably, unless restrained by the look-over-the-wordings team, they'll try
to each time there's a new main set, yes. That doesn't mean it gets to live
through the entire process, of course.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

pseudosoldier <pseudosoldier@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>1. Why "set aside" and not "remove from the game"?
>
>I think this was so that TA wouldn't trigger either "leaves play" or
>"comes into play" triggers. "Set aside" is still "in play."

No; "set aside" is definitely not "in play", it's "removed from the game" and
has been nearly forever. (At one time, _IF_ I remember right, there was
actually a 'set aside' zone, but if so that was sometime around 4th Edition.)
It will trigger both of those kinds of triggers.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Peter wrote:

> pete@cooper.homedns.org (Peter Cooper Jr.) wrote in message
> news:<86zn5u3ktz.fsf@pcpc.cooper.homedns.org>...
>> pseudosoldier@hotmail.com (pseudosoldier) writes:
>> > On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 06:03:25 GMT, Jeff Heikkinen <oh@s.if> wrote:
>> > > 1. Why "set aside" and not "remove from the game"?
>> >
>> > I think this was so that TA wouldn't trigger either "leaves play" or
>> > "comes into play" triggers. "Set aside" is still "in play."
>>
>> That's not quite what the rulebook says...
>>
>> ,----[ Magic Comp. Rules Glossary ]
>> | Set Aside
>> | To set aside a card is to remove it from the game; however, the
>> | effect will specify some condition that allows the set-aside card to
>> | return to the game. See also Removed from the Game.
>> `----
>>
>> I suspect that the wording was to save space and to make it slightly
>> easier for newer players to understand. But that's just my guess.
>
>
> Sooo.... If there are an even number of permanents in play, and one is
> a Phage, and I play Thieves Auction, I can win the game?
>
> Neato.

Even number of cards in play, but, yes, looks like. Note that if there's
an odd number of cards in play, you lose...
--
Christopher Mattern

"Which one you figure tracked us?"
"The ugly one, sir."
"...Could you be more specific?"

 

[peter]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

pete@cooper.homedns.org (Peter Cooper Jr.) wrote in message news:<86vfgi32gb.fsf@pcpc.cooper.homedns.org>...
> knucklehead000@yahoo.com (Peter) writes:
> > Sooo.... If there are an even number of permanents in play, and one is
> > a Phage, and I play Thieves Auction, I can win the game?
>
> That does sound correct. If there are an odd number, you will likely
> lose the game. However, if a Phage is in play, there are usually
> easier ways to make it win you the game then playing this card.

Yes, but none quite so hilarious.
Peter

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Chris Mattern <matternc@comcast.net> wrote:
>Peter wrote:
>> Sooo.... If there are an even number of permanents in play, and one is
>> a Phage, and I play Thieves Auction, I can win the game?
>>
>> Neato.
>
>Even number of cards in play, but, yes, looks like. Note that if there's
>an odd number of cards in play, you lose...

Well, it also depends on whether there are any local enchantments removed,
and what they can enchant. But minus that point, yes.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.