Reaping the Rewards

G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Hi,

Basically, my plan with the cards below is to gain 4 life and draw 2 cards
in one turn.
Can anyone please let me know if this works?

This is the game situation:

Cards in play under my control:
* Crucible of Worlds
* Well of Lost Dreams
* Exploration
* Plains
* Plains

Cards in my hand:
* Reaping the Rewards

1) It is my turn and I have not yet played any lands.
I tap the first Plains to play Reaping the Rewards (RtR) and I sacrifice
that Plains to buyback RtR.
I gain 2 life.
I choose not to use Well of Lost Dreams's ability.

I now tap the second Plains to play Reaping the Rewards (RtR) and I
sacrifice that Plains to buyback RtR.
I gain 2 life.
I now want to use Crucible of Worlds + Exploration to play both plains in
the graveyard and tap them to pay (W)(W) for Well of Lost Dreams, in order
to draw 2 cards. I that possible? If yes, how does this exactly work and in
which phase can it work (upkeep?, after drawing?, ...)?

Thanks in advance for all your help.

Eerie Teferi
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"Eerie Teferi" <info@localimpact.com> writes:
> Basically, my plan with the cards below is to gain 4 life and draw 2 cards
> in one turn.
> Can anyone please let me know if this works?

Doesn't look like it. Let's see:

> This is the game situation:
>
> Cards in play under my control:
> * Crucible of Worlds
> * Well of Lost Dreams
> * Exploration
> * Plains
> * Plains
>
> Cards in my hand:
> * Reaping the Rewards
>
> 1) It is my turn and I have not yet played any lands.
> I tap the first Plains to play Reaping the Rewards (RtR) and I sacrifice
> that Plains to buyback RtR.
> I gain 2 life.
> I choose not to use Well of Lost Dreams's ability.

That's fine.

> I now tap the second Plains to play Reaping the Rewards (RtR) and I
> sacrifice that Plains to buyback RtR.
> I gain 2 life.
> I now want to use Crucible of Worlds + Exploration to play both plains in
> the graveyard and tap them to pay (W)(W) for Well of Lost Dreams, in order
> to draw 2 cards. I that possible? If yes, how does this exactly work and in
> which phase can it work (upkeep?, after drawing?, ...)?

Nope. The Well of Lost Dreams triggers on the life-gain, so as soon as
the RtR resolves (going to your hand), the trigger goes on the stack.

You can't play both Plains before that trigger resolves since neither
the Crucible nor the Exploration change the time that you can play
land cards. And one of the restrictions on when you can play lands is
that the stack has to be empty.

Once the trigger resolves (and you choose not to use it or choose to
pay {0}, since you have no mana sources available), then you can play
the two lands in your graveyard. But by then, it's too late to go back
and try to draw cards from the Well. It would make just as much sense
as trying to draw cards from the first RtR—it doesn't work because the
triggered ability would already have resolved.

> Thanks in advance for all your help.

You're very welcome. Please feel free to post again if you have more
questions or need more clarification.

--
Peter C.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to get back to reality.
Wherever that is.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Eerie Teferi sez:

<<
>I now want to use Crucible of Worlds + Exploration to play both plains in
>the graveyard and tap them to pay (W)(W) for Well of Lost Dreams, in order
>to draw 2 cards. I that possible?
>
>>

No. By the time you can put the Plains into play, the time for paying for the
Well is long, LONG since past. So long, in fact, that the stack is empty
(which it must be to put the Plains into play anyway).



----
If [Michael Moore] makes a mistake in [F 9/11], it's not that he's careless
with the facts ... It's that he suggests Bush is the cause of our problems,
when, in fact, Bush is just the result.
--The Libertarian Lessons of Fahrenheit 9/11
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Hi,

> Nope. The Well of Lost Dreams triggers on the life-gain, so as soon as
> the RtR resolves (going to your hand), the trigger goes on the stack.

Let me see...
Is this perhaps the most optimal way to play in this situation to get the
most out of these cards in one turn:

Cards in play under my control:
* Crucible of Worlds
* Well of Lost Dreams
* Exploration
* Plains
* Plains

Cards in my hand:
* Reaping the Rewards

1) It is my turn and I have not yet played any lands.
I tap the 1st Plains to play Reaping the Rewards (RtR) and I sacrifice that
Plains to buyback RtR.
I gain 2 life. I tap the second Plains to pay (W) for Well of Lost Dreams's
ability and draw 1 card (hopefully another plains... :eek:, but that's wishful
thinking). The stack is now empty.

2) I play the 1st plains again from my graveyard to replay RtR and sac the
2nd plains (which is now tapped) to buyback RtR. I gain 2 life. The stack is
now empty.
I have no mana left to pay for Well of Lost Dreams's ability at this point.

3) I play the 2nd plains from my graveyard to replay Reaping the Rewards
(RtR) and sac the 1st plains for this. I gain 2 life. The stack is now
empty.
I have no mana left to pay for Well of Lost Dreams's ability at this point.

End of turn.

--> In total, I gained 6 life and drew 1 card.
Is that the best equation I can reach with the cards in play, or is there a
way to gain more life or draw more cards?
I'm really curious... :eek:)

Once again, thanks in advance. :eek:)

Eerie Teferi
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 07:41:13 GMT, Eerie Teferi <info@localimpact.com> wrote:
>Basically, my plan with the cards below is to gain 4 life and draw 2 cards
>in one turn.
>Can anyone please let me know if this works?
>
>This is the game situation:
>
>Cards in play under my control:
>* Crucible of Worlds
>* Well of Lost Dreams
>* Exploration
>* Plains
>* Plains

Crucible of Worlds works just fine with Exploration, since Exploration is
one of the few cards that _does_ allow you to _play_ additional lands.

>Cards in my hand:
>* Reaping the Rewards
>
>1) It is my turn and I have not yet played any lands.
>I tap the first Plains to play Reaping the Rewards (RtR) and I sacrifice
>that Plains to buyback RtR.
>I gain 2 life.
>I choose not to use Well of Lost Dreams's ability.
>
>I now tap the second Plains to play Reaping the Rewards (RtR) and I
>sacrifice that Plains to buyback RtR.
>I gain 2 life.
>I now want to use Crucible of Worlds + Exploration to play both plains in
>the graveyard and tap them to pay (W)(W) for Well of Lost Dreams, in order
>to draw 2 cards. I that possible? If yes, how does this exactly work and in
>which phase can it work (upkeep?, after drawing?, ...)?

Well, Reaping the Rewards is an Instant, so can be cast in any phase or
step (except Untap step or most Cleanup steps), and Well of Lost Dreams'
ability is triggered, so will trigger any time you gain life. But: the fly in
the ointment here is playing a land. You can only do that during your main
phase, only when you have priority... and ONLY when the stack is EMPTY.

So: after casting Reaping the Rewards the first time, and waiting for Well of
Lost Dreams' ability to resolve (it will trigger whether or not you intend to
pay anything to it on resolution), you could then play the Plains from the
graveyard through Crucible. But: between the time you play the RTR the
second time, announcing it and paying W and sacrificing Plains #2, and the
time the Well's ability resolves the second time, asking you to pay X? There
is no time when the stack is empty AND you have priority. It either has RtR
on it, or RTR is just done resolving but nobody has priority yet, or the
Well's ability has gone onto the stack. So there's no time in there where you
can play the -second- Plains, using Exploration and Crucible, in time to have
it in play when the Well's ability's effect asks for a mana payment.

So: you can draw 1 card off the second Reaping, but not two. (You can draw
1 card off the first Reaping, alternatively, but then you'd have to use the
Plains you're playing from the graveyard to cast the second Reaping with,
and can't draw any cards off the second Reaping.)

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Eerie Teferi <info@localimpact.com> wrote:
>--> In total, I gained 6 life and drew 1 card.
>Is that the best equation I can reach with the cards in play, or is there a
>way to gain more life or draw more cards?
>I'm really curious... :eek:)

With only two Plains around, I see no way for you to draw MORE than one card.
But yes, it looks like you can end up casting RtR three times this way along
the way (and you end up with one Plains back in the graveyard for a second
time this turn, and the other one tapped).

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

> With only two Plains around, I see no way for you to draw MORE than one
card.
> But yes, it looks like you can end up casting RtR three times this way
along
> the way (and you end up with one Plains back in the graveyard for a second
> time this turn, and the other one tapped).

Thanks, David. :eek:)

Eerie Teferi
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

> With only two Plains around, I see no way for you to draw MORE than one
card.
> But yes, it looks like you can end up casting RtR three times this way
along
> the way (and you end up with one Plains back in the graveyard for a second
> time this turn, and the other one tapped).

Thanks, David. :eek:)

Hmmm, my mind is really buzzing now...
What if I had 3 plains in play under my control instead of 2?
How much difference would that make:

In that case, this would be the game situation:

Cards in play under my control:
* Crucible of Worlds
* Well of Lost Dreams
* Exploration
* Plains
* Plains
* Plains
(so, one more plains than before)

Cards in my hand:
* Reaping the Rewards

It is the beginning of my turn.

1) How many life can I gain in one turn and how many cards can I draw in
that same turn?

I think 6 life + 2 cards is the maximum you can get.
Here's how I think you can get there (correct me if I'm wrong or if you can
get better results):

(Let's call the 3 Plains Plains 1, Plains 2 and Plains 3 for clarity.)

Step 1: I tap Plains 1 to play RTR
Step 2: I sac the tapped Plains 1 to buyback RTR
Step 3: I gain 2 life
Step 4: I tap Plains 2 to draw 1 card from Well of Lost Dreams

Step 5: I now play Plains 1 from the graveyard
Step 6: I tap Plains 1 to play RTR
Step 7: I sac the tapped Plains 2 to buyback RTR
Step 8: I gain 2 life
Step 9: I tap Plains 3 to draw 1 card from Well of Lost Dreams

Step 10: I now play Plains 2 from the graveyard
Step 11: I tap Plains 2 to play RTR
Step 12 (optional): I sac the tapped Plains 3 to buyback RTR
Step 13: I gain 2 life
Step 14: I choose not to use Well of Lost Dreams's ability or choose to pay
{0}, since I have no mana sources available

Net Total: +6 life and + 2 cards in one turn.
And if I skip Step 12, I can do this every turn...

And with 2 Explorations and 3 plains in play under my control, I can get to
8 life + 2 cards.
Hmmm... 2 cards seems to be the max. you can draw both in this situation and
the one with 2 Explorations, or am I wrong?

Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts. :eek:)

Eerie Teferi
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Eerie Teferi <info@localimpact.com> wrote:
>> With only two Plains around, I see no way for you to draw MORE than one card.
>> But yes, it looks like you can end up casting RtR three times this way along
>> the way (and you end up with one Plains back in the graveyard for a second
>> time this turn, and the other one tapped).
>
>Thanks, David. :eek:)
>
>Hmmm, my mind is really buzzing now...
>What if I had 3 plains in play under my control instead of 2?
>How much difference would that make:

Play RtR, sac tapped Plains, gain life; pay 2, draw 2 cards.

Play Plains from graveyard.

From here it repeats, so here you end up with 3 Reaps again, but 2 cards
can get drawn, not one. (Or, alternatively, you can use a later instance
of the Well ability, or draw 1 from the first one and 1 from a later one -
but I think again you're limited to 2-for-the-Well plus one-repeated-for-the-
Reaping.)

>I think 6 life + 2 cards is the maximum you can get.

I think so too. Or probably 8 life + 1 card also.

>And with 2 Explorations and 3 plains in play under my control, I can get to
>8 life + 2 cards.

2 Explorations lets you get three Plains back each turn, yes.

>Hmmm... 2 cards seems to be the max. you can draw both in this situation and
>the one with 2 Explorations, or am I wrong?

Looks correct: you have to have used W to cast the Reap, and sac a Plains to
get it back, leaving only two possible untapped Plains in play to use with
the Well.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.