Bringer of Red Dawn and Forgotten Ancient

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Hello.

Player A has a Bringer of Red Dawn (BoRD).
Player B has a Forgotten Ancient (FA) in play with 5 counters already on it.

It is Player A's turn. During player A's upkeep, can he take control of the
FA then move the 5 counters onto his BoRD?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Jimmy Wong <j4389130@telus.net> wrote:

> Hello.
>
> Player A has a Bringer of Red Dawn (BoRD).

Bringer of the Red Dawn
{7}{R}{R}
Creature -- Bringer
5/5
You may pay {W}{U}{B}{R}{G} rather than pay Bringer of the Red Dawn's
mana cost.
Trample
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may untap target creature and gain
control of it until end of turn. That creature gains haste until end of
turn.

> Player B has a Forgotten Ancient (FA) in play with 5 counters already on it.

Forgotten Ancient
{3}{G}
Creature -- Elemental
0/3
Whenever a player plays a spell, you may put a +1/+1 counter on
Forgotten Ancient.
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may move any number of +1/+1
counters from Forgotten Ancient onto other creatures.

> It is Player A's turn. During player A's upkeep, can he take control of the
> FA then move the 5 counters onto his BoRD?

No.

410.2. Whenever a game event or game state matches a triggered ability's
trigger event, that ability triggers. When a phase or step begins, all
abilities that trigger "at the beginning of" that phase or step trigger.
The ability doesn't do anything when it triggers but automatically puts
the ability on the stack as soon as a player would receive priority. The
ability is controlled by the player who controlled its source at the
time it triggered. It has the text of the ability that created it, and
no other characteristics.

Player A doesn't control Forgotten Ancient at the beginning of that
upkeep, and the ability therefore does not trigger at that time.
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Jimmy Wong <j4389130@telus.net> wrote:
>Player A has a Bringer of Red Dawn (BoRD).
>Player B has a Forgotten Ancient (FA) in play with 5 counters already on it.
>
>It is Player A's turn. During player A's upkeep, can he take control of the
>FA then move the 5 counters onto his BoRD?

Bringer of the Red Dawn 7RR Creature -- Bringer
5/5 Trample You may pay WUBRG rather than pay ~'s mana cost. / At the
beginning of your upkeep, you may untap target creature and gain control of it
until end of turn. That creature gains haste until end of turn.
Forgotten Ancient 3G Creature -- Elemental
0/3 Whenever a player plays a spell, you may put a +1/+1 counter on ~. / At
the beginning of your upkeep, you may move any number of +1/+1 counters from ~
onto other creatures.

No, because on player A's turn, creatures _B_ controls with "at the beginning
of your upkeep, ..." triggered abilities WILL NOT TRIGGER. As A's upkeep
starts, the Bringer triggers; the FA does NOT trigger, because A does not
control it. After the Bringer triggers, its ability goes on the stack and
A can pick B's Ancient as the target; some time later, that ability resolves,
and A chooses whether to get control of the Ancient and untap it this turn. (It
gets Haste whether or not A decides to grab it.) A now controls an Ancient...
but we're well past the start of A's upkeep now, it's far too late for said
Ancient to -trigger- this turn.

But A can certainly -attack- with the FA and the Bringer this turn.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.