Endless Whispers/Leveler

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

4 cards involved:

Endless Whispers
{2}{B}{B}
Enchantment
Each creature has "When this creature is put into a graveyard from
play, choose target opponent. That player puts this creature card from
that graveyard into play under his or her control at end of turn."

Leveler
{5}
Artifact Creature
10/10
When Leveler comes into play, remove your library from the game.

Card Name: Spawning Pit
Color: A
Cost: 2
Type: Artifact
Pow/Tgh:
Rules Text: Sacrifice a creature: Put a charge counter on Spawning
Pit.
1, Remove two charge counters from Spawning Pit: Put
a 2/2 Spawn artifact creature token into play.

Naturalize
{1}{G}
Instant
Destroy target artifact or enchantment.

I have Endless Whispers and Spawning Pit in play, I cast Leveler and
sacrifice it to my spawning pit. At the end of my turn, the Leveler
will go into play on my oppenents side, hence removing his library and
losing the game since he is unable to draw a card during his next
turn. However, after I cast Leveler and sacrifice it to my spawning
pit, if my oppenent naturalizes the Endless Whispers, will the Leveler
still go into play on my oppenents side at the end of my turn? Thanks!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:58:45 -0400, "Ken Briscoe"
<youcant@sendmespam.com> wrote:

>"SulfuricMox" <sulfuricmox@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:93390736.0408271131.3937f30c@posting.google.com...
>> 4 cards involved:
>>
>> Endless Whispers
>> {2}{B}{B}
>> Enchantment
>> Each creature has "When this creature is put into a graveyard from
>> play, choose target opponent. That player puts this creature card from
>> that graveyard into play under his or her control at end of turn."
>>
>> Leveler
>> {5}
>> Artifact Creature
>> 10/10
>> When Leveler comes into play, remove your library from the game.
>>
>> Card Name: Spawning Pit
>> Color: A
>> Cost: 2
>> Type: Artifact
>> Pow/Tgh:
>> Rules Text: Sacrifice a creature: Put a charge counter on Spawning
>> Pit.
>> 1, Remove two charge counters from Spawning Pit: Put
>> a 2/2 Spawn artifact creature token into play.
>>
>> Naturalize
>> {1}{G}
>> Instant
>> Destroy target artifact or enchantment.
>>
>> I have Endless Whispers and Spawning Pit in play, I cast Leveler and
>> sacrifice it to my spawning pit. At the end of my turn, the Leveler
>> will go into play on my oppenents side, hence removing his library and
>> losing the game since he is unable to draw a card during his next
>> turn. However, after I cast Leveler and sacrifice it to my spawning
>> pit, if my oppenent naturalizes the Endless Whispers, will the Leveler
>> still go into play on my oppenents side at the end of my turn? Thanks!
>
>Yes, he still gets the Leveler. When the creature goes to the graveyard, it
>has the EW-granted ability, which sets up a delayed triggered ability (for
>the end of turn). Even if the EW is not in play at the end of turn, the
>ability is still placed on the stack at end of turn. Of course, if you put a
>creature into the graveyard after EW is destroyed, then this trick won't
>work. But as long as EW is in play when a creature is put into the
>graveyard, it will still return to play under your opponent's control later.
>
>This is the same principle at work as with an Astral Slide deck. They cycle
>a card, Slide a creature out, then blow up the world with an Akroma's
>Vengeance (or something similar). This destroys the Astral Slide as well,
>but it sets up a delayed triggered ability to return the creature to play at
>end of turn (much like Endless Whispers).

So is there an opportunity from the time he declares sac'ing the
Leveler to the Spawning Pit to destroy the EW before the Leveler hits
the graveyard?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Lophophora <nope@nope.com> wrote:

> So is there an opportunity from the time he declares sac'ing the
> Leveler to the Spawning Pit to destroy the EW before the Leveler hits
> the graveyard?

"declares sac'ing"???

The sacrifice of the Leveler is (part of) the cost of that activated
ability of Spawning Pit. Paying that cost is part of playing the
ability. It is DONE before anyone gets priority again.
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Daniel W. Johnson (panoptes@iquest.net) wrote:
: Lophophora <nope@nope.com> wrote:

: > So is there an opportunity from the time he declares sac'ing the
: > Leveler to the Spawning Pit to destroy the EW before the Leveler hits
: > the graveyard?

: "declares sac'ing"???

: The sacrifice of the Leveler is (part of) the cost of that activated
: ability of Spawning Pit. Paying that cost is part of playing the
: ability. It is DONE before anyone gets priority again.

Which means, the last chance to take out the EW is while the Leveler is
still being cast. (or instead, take out the S-Pit at this point and let
him hammer his own library...)


Keith

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On 27 Aug 2004 12:31:32 -0700, SulfuricMox <sulfuricmox@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Endless Whispers 2BB Enchantment
> Each creature has "When this creature is put into a graveyard from play,
> choose target opponent. That player puts this creature card from that
> graveyard into play under his or her control at end of turn."
>
>Leveler 5 Artifact Creature
>10/10 When ~ comes into play, remove your library from the game.
>
>Spawning Pit 2 Artifact
> Sacrifice a creature: Put a charge counter on ~. / 1,Remove two charge
> counters from ~: Put a 2/2 Spawn artifact creature token into play.
>
>Naturalize 1G Instant
>Destroy target artifact or enchantment.

Let's see. If Endless Whispers makes your opponent put your Leveler into
play from your graveyard, they control its triggered ability, so they have
to remove their library. (Of course, in general you will already have had to
remove _your_ library when Leveler first came into play under -your-
control...)

Creature tokens from Spawning Pit get the EW ability, but since they Dissolve
right after going to the graveyard, they aren't coming back later on.

The EW itself does not have to be in play later on when the creature card
would come back from the graveyard; it DOES have to be in play when the
creature dies. So killing a creature, then after that Naturalizing the EW,
doesn't stop the creature card from coming back.

>I have Endless Whispers and Spawning Pit in play, I cast Leveler and
>sacrifice it to my spawning pit.

And remove your library from the game, since Leveler triggered as it came
into play under your control, and removing the Leveler in response doesn't
stop its triggered ability.

>At the end of my turn, the Leveler
>will go into play on my oppenents side, hence removing his library and
>losing the game since he is unable to draw a card during his next turn.

Well, you have the same problem, but one turn later...

>However, after I cast Leveler and sacrifice it to my spawning
>pit, if my oppenent naturalizes the Endless Whispers, will the Leveler
>still go into play on my oppenents side at the end of my turn?

Yes. The EW need only be there when the Leveler goes to the graveyard; if it
is, the Leveler has the EW-granted triggered ability at that time, which
triggers, resolves, and makes the delayed triggered ability "At end of turn
that chosen opponent puts this Leveler into play from this graveyard under
his or her control". The delayed triggered ability isn't stapled onto the
EW (or the Leveler) in any way; it's not really Anywhere At All while waiting
to trigger. When the time comes, it triggers and goes onto the stack,
regardless of whether the EW (or the Leveler) is still in play.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Lophophora <nope@nope.com> wrote:
>"Ken Briscoe" <youcant@sendmespam.com> wrote:
>>> Card Name: Spawning Pit
>>> Color: A
>>> Cost: 2
>>> Type: Artifact
>>> Pow/Tgh:
>>> Rules Text: Sacrifice a creature: Put a charge counter on Spawning
>>> Pit.
>>> 1, Remove two charge counters from Spawning Pit: Put
>>> a 2/2 Spawn artifact creature token into play.

>>This destroys the Astral Slide as well,
>>but it sets up a delayed triggered ability to return the creature to play at
>>end of turn (much like Endless Whispers).

"but it has already set up a"

>So is there an opportunity from the time he declares sac'ing the
>Leveler to the Spawning Pit to destroy the EW before the Leveler hits
>the graveyard?

No. If he is using the Spawning Pit, he has priority and you do not. Since
it's his turn (he's casting a Leveler creature spell), he gets priority after
the Leveler spell resolves and puts the Leveler into play and puts its
triggered ability onto the stack; you do not.

In addition, "sacrifice" is NOT some sort of stacked ability. If you sacrifice
something as a cost, it's in the graveyard RIGHT THEN, while you're announcing
the spell or ability; it does not 'wait until resolution, then quietly go to
the graveyard at last'. If a sacrifice is done as part of the effect of a spell
or ability, you don't choose what to sacrifice until that resolution, in
general. And since you do NOT have priority during ANY announcement (or
resolution) of a spell or ability, there is nothing at all you can do to
"interfere with him using the Spawning Pit" while he's announcing the ability.
Nothing at _all_, ever.

And even if you did cast Naturalize, assuming he did something else after
the Leveler came into play, or just plain passed, he can respond to that by
using the Spawning Pit before Naturalize is allowed to resolve at all.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Keith Piddington <uj551@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca> wrote:
>Daniel W. Johnson (panoptes@iquest.net) wrote:
>: The sacrifice of the Leveler is (part of) the cost of that activated
>: ability of Spawning Pit. Paying that cost is part of playing the
>: ability. It is DONE before anyone gets priority again.
>
>Which means, the last chance to take out the EW is while the Leveler is
>still being cast. (or instead, take out the S-Pit at this point and let
>him hammer his own library...)

Er, he'll "hammer his own library" _whether or not_ there's a Spawning Pit
involved; sacrificing the Leveler to the SP after it's in play does nothing
to STOP the triggered ability from that Leveler, already on the stack...

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

[peter]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) wrote in message news:<slrncj07ih.is9.dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com>...

> Er, he'll "hammer his own library" _whether or not_ there's a Spawning Pit
> involved; sacrificing the Leveler to the SP after it's in play does nothing
> to STOP the triggered ability from that Leveler, already on the stack...

At which point, during before his turn, if he hit the Leveler-caster
with a "target opponent draws a card" spell or ability, the
Leveler-caster would lose due to his own library being empty.
Correct?

So, don't do this with a Cephalid Looter in play.
Peter

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Peter wrote:

> dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) wrote in message
> news:<slrncj07ih.is9.dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com>...
>
>> Er, he'll "hammer his own library" _whether or not_ there's a Spawning
>> Pit involved; sacrificing the Leveler to the SP after it's in play does
>> nothing to STOP the triggered ability from that Leveler, already on the
>> stack...
>
> At which point, during before his turn, if he hit the Leveler-caster
> with a "target opponent draws a card" spell or ability, the
> Leveler-caster would lose due to his own library being empty.
> Correct?

Correct. This ploy, when it works, empties *both* players'
libraries. It works for the active player because his opponent
will normally be the next one to have to draw a card.
>
> So, don't do this with a Cephalid Looter in play.

Unless it's yours.
> Peter

--
Christopher Mattern

"Which one you figure tracked us?"
"The ugly one, sir."
"...Could you be more specific?"