Ability's source - re-checked on resolution?

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Hello, All!
Suppose there is a card with the two following abilities (rumored to be
in the upcoming Champions of Kamigawa, but this is irrelevant and can be
simulated with older, well-known cards - Razor Barrier and Purelace, for
example):

1W: Target permanent you control gains protection from white until end
of turn.
1: Target spell or permanent becomes white until end of turn.

If a player uses some activated ability of a permanent targeting one of
my permanents (say, Contested Cliffs targeting my Akroma and his 8/8
Broodstar), can I make my permanent an invalid target for that ability
to counter it on resolution (in the above example - by giving my Akroma
protection from white and making his Contested Cliffs white)? I think
that during target checking on activated ability's resolution the source
attributes are looked at again (using LKI if needed) - aren't they?

Regards,
Arkady.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 15:21:20 -0400, Arkady Zilberberg <arkadyz1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Suppose there is a card with the two following abilities (rumored to be
>in the upcoming Champions of Kamigawa, but this is irrelevant and can be
>simulated with older, well-known cards - Razor Barrier and Purelace, for
>example):
>
>1W: Target permanent you control gains protection from white until end
>of turn. / 1: Target spell or permanent becomes white until end of turn.

Okay.

>If a player uses some activated ability of a permanent targeting one of
>my permanents (say, Contested Cliffs targeting my Akroma and his 8/8
>Broodstar), can I make my permanent an invalid target for that ability
>to counter it on resolution (in the above example - by giving my Akroma
>protection from white and making his Contested Cliffs white)?

Sure. Note that you can't target the -ability- ... but on the other hand,
abilities don't HAVE colors of their own (or any other characteristic other
than 'text'), and always take that of their source, if asked.

>I think
>that during target checking on activated ability's resolution the source
>attributes are looked at again (using LKI if needed) - aren't they?

Yes; notice that protection-from does NOT ask "what color is the ability?".
It asks "what color is the ability's _source_?", in its "can't be the target
of <foo> spells or of abilities from <foo> sources" portion.

So yes, while the Cliffs ability is on the stack, you can (in one order or
the other) make the Cliffs white, and make the creature you control get
pro-white. [Which, because of the way the Cliffs works, will cause its ability
to resolve, but Do Nothing to either creature involved, because it still has
one legal target, but can't make the illegal creature deal damage, and can't
make the other creature deal damage to the illegal creature.]

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 15:21:20 -0400, "Arkady Zilberberg"
<arkadyz1@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Hello, All!
>Suppose there is a card with the two following abilities (rumored to be
>in the upcoming Champions of Kamigawa, but this is irrelevant and can be
>simulated with older, well-known cards - Razor Barrier and Purelace, for
>example):
>
>1W: Target permanent you control gains protection from white until end
>of turn.
>1: Target spell or permanent becomes white until end of turn.
>
>If a player uses some activated ability of a permanent targeting one of
>my permanents (say, Contested Cliffs targeting my Akroma and his 8/8
>Broodstar), can I make my permanent an invalid target for that ability
>to counter it on resolution (in the above example - by giving my Akroma
>protection from white and making his Contested Cliffs white)? I think
>that during target checking on activated ability's resolution the source
>attributes are looked at again (using LKI if needed) - aren't they?

Yes, targets are rechecked upon resolution.

In the given example the ability has two targets and only one becomes
illegal, so it still resolves - but no damage would be dealt. "If a
target is illegal, the spell or ability can't perform any actions on
it or make the target perform any actions.", thus Contested Cliffs
cannot make Broodstar deal damage to Akroma, but it can't make Akroma
hit Broodstar either (full rule quote below).


Contested Cliffs
Land
{T}: Add {1} to your mana pool.
{R}{G}, {T}: Choose target Beast you control and target creature an
opponent controls. Each creature deals damage equal to its power to
the other.

413.2. Resolution of a spell or ability may involve several steps.
These steps are followed in the order listed below.

413.2a If the spell or ability specifies targets, it checks whether
the targets are still legal. A target that's removed from play, or
from the zone designated by the spell or ability, is illegal. A target
may also become illegal if its characteristics changed since the spell
or ability was played or if an effect changed the text of the spell.
If all targets are now illegal, the spell or ability is countered. If
the spell or ability is not countered, it will resolve normally,
affecting only the targets that are still legal. If a target is
illegal, the spell or ability can't perform any actions on it or make
the target perform any actions. If the spell or ability needs to know
information about one or more targets that are now illegal, it will
use the illegal targets' current or last known information.

--
Regards
Simon Nejmann