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Sword, Shield, and Helm of Kaldra, and impact of new Legen..

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Anonymous
September 29, 2004 8:52:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Maybe I don't even need to put these here, but heck, it helps
non-experts like myself understand without alt-tabbing to the Oracle
every two seconds...

Helm of Kaldra
3
Legendary Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature has first strike, trample, and haste.
1: If you control Equipment named Helm of Kaldra, Sword of Kaldra, and
Shield of Kaldra, put a legendary 4/4 colorless Avatar creature token
named Kaldra into play and attach those Equipment to it.
Equip 2

Shield of Kaldra
4
Legendary Artifact — Equipment
Equipment named Sword of Kaldra, Shield of Kaldra, and Helm of Kaldra
are indestructible.
Equipped creature is indestructible. ("Destroy" effects and lethal
damage don’t destroy it.)
Equip 4

Sword of Kaldra
4
Legendary Artifact — Equipment
Equipped creature gets +5/+5.
Whenever equipped creature deals damage to a creature, remove that
creature from the game.
Equip 4 (4: Attach to target creature you control. Equip only as a
sorcery. This card comes into play unattached and stays in play if the
creature leaves play.)

The question is:

Previous to the new Legends rule, any new "legendary 4/4 colorless
Avatar creature token named Kaldra" would croak as the duplicate
legends rule kicked in as a state-based effect, right? With the new
rule, the creation of one of these will kill both, and the player is
free to make another one, right?

The reason this came up is because I was being attacked by one of
these vicious Kaldra annoyances, and I wanted to cast Mirror Strike to
make the attacker take the damage. This was, of course, for the game.
Old Legends Rule, I win. New Legends Rule, he pops a new being into
play, killing the attacking one AND the new one, and is free to live
(and kill me) another day...

Sound right?

Thanks,

Rick
Anonymous
September 30, 2004 5:31:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Rick Kunkel sez:

<<
>Maybe I don't even need to put these here, but heck, it helps
>non-experts like myself understand without alt-tabbing to the Oracle
>every two seconds...
<<snip Kaldra artifacts>>
>
>The question is:
>
>Previous to the new Legends rule, any new "legendary 4/4 colorless
>Avatar creature token named Kaldra" would croak as the duplicate
>legends rule kicked in as a state-based effect, right? With the new
>rule, the creation of one of these will kill both, and the player is
>free to make another one, right?
>
>The reason this came up is because I was being attacked by one of
>these vicious Kaldra annoyances, and I wanted to cast Mirror Strike to
>make the attacker take the damage. This was, of course, for the game.
>Old Legends Rule, I win. New Legends Rule, he pops a new being into
>play, killing the attacking one AND the new one, and is free to live
>(and kill me) another day...
>
>Sound right?

>
>>

Sounds right, if you played the Mirror Strike before combat damage went on the
stack. After combat damage is on the stack, the grenade is lobbed and it won't
be removed even if the creature creating the combat damage is removed. It can,
however, be prevented and/or changed to a new head...


----
If [Michael Moore] makes a mistake in [F 9/11], it's not that he's careless
with the facts ... It's that he suggests Bush is the cause of our problems,
when, in fact, Bush is just the result.
--The Libertarian Lessons of Fahrenheit 9/11
Anonymous
September 30, 2004 8:47:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Rick Kunkel, worshipped by llamas the world over, wrote...
> Maybe I don't even need to put these here, but heck, it helps
> non-experts like myself understand without alt-tabbing to the Oracle
> every two seconds...

> The question is:
>
> Previous to the new Legends rule, any new "legendary 4/4 colorless
> Avatar creature token named Kaldra" would croak as the duplicate
> legends rule kicked in as a state-based effect, right? With the new
> rule, the creation of one of these will kill both, and the player is
> free to make another one, right?

> The reason this came up is because I was being attacked by one of
> these vicious Kaldra annoyances, and I wanted to cast Mirror Strike to
> make the attacker take the damage. This was, of course, for the game.
> Old Legends Rule, I win. New Legends Rule, he pops a new being into
> play, killing the attacking one AND the new one, and is free to live
> (and kill me) another day...
>
> Sound right?

Seems to me you've summed things up nicely.

--
Let's not let this drift into a topic about playing your alignment. I
have too much to do to be able to properly ridicule and post whore.
- Rob Singers
Anonymous
September 30, 2004 4:06:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Rick Kunkel <NOSPAM-kunkel@w-link.net> wrote:
>Maybe I don't even need to put these here, but heck, it helps
>non-experts like myself understand without alt-tabbing to the Oracle
>every two seconds...
>
>Helm of Kaldra >3 >Legendary Artifact - Equipment
>Equipped creature has first strike, trample, and haste.
>1: If you control Equipment named Helm of Kaldra, Sword of Kaldra, and
>Shield of Kaldra, put a legendary 4/4 colorless Avatar creature token
>named Kaldra into play and attach those Equipment to it. / Equip 2
>
>Shield of Kaldra >4 >Legendary Artifact - Equipment
>Equipment named Sword of Kaldra, Shield of Kaldra, and Helm of Kaldra
>are indestructible. / >Equipped creature is indestructible. (*) / Equip 4
>
>Sword of Kaldra >4 >Legendary Artifact - Equipment
>Equipped creature gets +5/+5. / Whenever equipped creature deals damage to a
>creature, remove that creature from the game. / Equip 4 (*)
>
>Previous to the new Legends rule, any new "legendary 4/4 colorless
>Avatar creature token named Kaldra" would croak as the duplicate
>legends rule kicked in as a state-based effect, right?

Right.

> With the new
>rule, the creation of one of these will kill both, and the player is
>free to make another one, right?

Right.

>The reason this came up is because I was being attacked by one of
>these vicious Kaldra annoyances, and I wanted to cast Mirror Strike to
>make the attacker take the damage. This was, of course, for the game.
>Old Legends Rule, I win. New Legends Rule, he pops a new being into
>play, killing the attacking one AND the new one, and is free to live
>(and kill me) another day...

Yes, that can make your Mirror Strike get countered for missing target. Oh
well.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Anonymous
September 30, 2004 4:08:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Andy Jakcsy <djaxmann@aol.computer> wrote:
>Sounds right, if you played the Mirror Strike before combat damage went on the
>stack. After combat damage is on the stack, the grenade is lobbed and it won't
>be removed even if the creature creating the combat damage is removed. It can,
>however, be prevented and/or changed to a new head...

Look closer: Mirror Strike -targets- the creature. If the creature goes Away
in response to the MS, the MS gets countered, has no effect, ... and can't
cause the damage to be redirected, so defender still gets dealt the damage,
and attacker doesn't get dealt it instead, and lives.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Anonymous
September 30, 2004 5:07:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Could he not have played Mirror Strike once the damage is on the stack
and have the damage deal to his/her opponent ?

Jeff Heikkinen wrote:
> Rick Kunkel, worshipped by llamas the world over, wrote...
>
>>Maybe I don't even need to put these here, but heck, it helps
>>non-experts like myself understand without alt-tabbing to the Oracle
>>every two seconds...
>
>
>>The question is:
>>
>>Previous to the new Legends rule, any new "legendary 4/4 colorless
>>Avatar creature token named Kaldra" would croak as the duplicate
>>legends rule kicked in as a state-based effect, right? With the new
>>rule, the creation of one of these will kill both, and the player is
>>free to make another one, right?
>
>
>>The reason this came up is because I was being attacked by one of
>>these vicious Kaldra annoyances, and I wanted to cast Mirror Strike to
>>make the attacker take the damage. This was, of course, for the game.
>>Old Legends Rule, I win. New Legends Rule, he pops a new being into
>>play, killing the attacking one AND the new one, and is free to live
>>(and kill me) another day...
>>
>>Sound right?
>
>
> Seems to me you've summed things up nicely.
>
Anonymous
September 30, 2004 6:17:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 13:07:46 -0400, Carl Joly <palomides@videotron.ca> wrote:
>Could he not have played Mirror Strike once the damage is on the stack
>and have the damage deal to his/her opponent ?

No, because Mirror Strike reads

Mirror Strike 3W Instant
Target unblocked creature deals combat damage to its controller instead of to
you this turn.

; it targets an unblocked creature, and with no legal target you're not
allowed to play the spell at all. (If the target is legal on announcement
but becomes illegal in response, the spell gets countered, and countered spells
have No Effect.)

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Anonymous
October 1, 2004 2:19:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

David DeLaney sez:

<<
>Andy Jakcsy <djaxmann@aol.computer> wrote:
>>Sounds right, if you played the Mirror Strike before combat damage went on
the
>>stack. After combat damage is on the stack, the grenade is lobbed and it
won't
>>be removed even if the creature creating the combat damage is removed. It
can,
>>however, be prevented and/or changed to a new head...
>
>Look closer: Mirror Strike -targets- the creature. If the creature goes Away
>in response to the MS, the MS gets countered, has no effect, ... and can't
>cause the damage to be redirected, so defender still gets dealt the damage,
>and attacker doesn't get dealt it instead, and lives.

>
>>

OK, gotcha. My mistake.

A novice could still make the mistake of letting the Mirror Strike resolve
before he makes another Kaldra...but that's not likely to happen with most
players...




----
If [Michael Moore] makes a mistake in [F 9/11], it's not that he's careless
with the facts ... It's that he suggests Bush is the cause of our problems,
when, in fact, Bush is just the result.
--The Libertarian Lessons of Fahrenheit 9/11
!