Goblin Charbelcher with no lands in a deck

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Hello,

I know this has to be a repeat question, but I´d like to know what happens
when Goblin Charbelcher is activated with no lands in a deck.

It is my understanding that it deals damage equal to the number of cards
left in your library, and you get to stack the deck afterwards (after all,
well known decks are played in tournaments based on the combo) but I cannot
back it up with my knowledge of the rules ( the best I came up with was ..
you follow the instructions on the card as well as you can ), and I´d like
to demonstrate to our local judge who ruled otherwise.

I don´t have the Oracle wording handy, sorry.

Thanks in advance once again,

Gustavo Fischer

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Gustavo Fischer <gef@montevideo.com.uy> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I know this has to be a repeat question, but I'd like to know what happens
> when Goblin Charbelcher is activated with no lands in a deck.
>
> It is my understanding that it deals damage equal to the number of cards
> left in your library, and you get to stack the deck afterwards (after all,
> well known decks are played in tournaments based on the combo) but I cannot
> back it up with my knowledge of the rules ( the best I came up with was ..
> you follow the instructions on the card as well as you can ), and I'd like
> to demonstrate to our local judge who ruled otherwise.
>
> I don't have the Oracle wording handy, sorry.

Goblin Charbelcher
{4}
Artifact
{3}, {T}: Reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a
land card. Goblin Charbelcher deals damage equal to the number of
nonland cards revealed this way to target creature or player. If the
revealed land card was a Mountain, Goblin Charbelcher deals double that
damage instead. Put the revealed cards on the bottom of your library in
any order.

And the relevant rules are:

413.2b The controller of the spell or ability follows its instructions
in the order written. However, replacement effects may modify these
actions. In some cases, later text on the card may modify the meaning of
earlier text (for example, "Destroy target creature. It can't be
regenerated" or "Counter target spell. If you do, put it on top of its
owner's library instead of into its owner's graveyard.") Don't just
apply effects step by step without thinking in these cases-read the
whole text and apply the rules of English to the text.

103.3. If an instruction requires taking an impossible action, it's
ignored. (In many cases the card will specify consequences for this; if
it doesn't, there's no effect.)

416.3. If an effect attempts to do something impossible, it does only as
much as possible.
Example: If a player is holding only one card, an effect that reads
"Discard two cards" causes him or her to discard only that card. If an
effect moves cards out of the library (as opposed to drawing), it moves
as many as possible.

And according to level 4 judge Rune Horvik (as can be seen at
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/rh92):

A: If you don't have any lands in your library you reveal all the cards
left in the library, then the Charbelcher deals 1 damage for each
revealed card. Then you put all the cards back, in whatever order you
want.

Even if one part of an effect fails, the other parts will try to do as
much as possible. Revealing the land is just a stop condition, it's not
a requirement to deal damage (it doesn't say "if you reveal a land...").

--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Gustavo Fischer <gef@montevideo.com.uy> wrote:
>I know this has to be a repeat question, but I´d like to know what happens
>when Goblin Charbelcher is activated with no lands in a deck.
>
>It is my understanding that it deals damage equal to the number of cards
>left in your library, and you get to stack the deck afterwards

Right.

>(after all,
>well known decks are played in tournaments based on the combo) but I cannot
>back it up with my knowledge of the rules ( the best I came up with was ..
>you follow the instructions on the card as well as you can ), and I´d like
>to demonstrate to our local judge who ruled otherwise.

You follow the instructions as best you can, in the order given (unless there's
some very good reason that you have to do a later sentence before finishing
an earlier one, like "Destroy it. It can't be regenerated").

>I don´t have the Oracle wording handy, sorry.

The Internet is your friend:

Goblin Charbelcher 4 Artifact
3,Tap: Reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a land card.
~ deals damage equal to the number of nonland cards revealed this way to
target creature or player. If the revealed land card was a Mountain, ~ deals
double that damage instead. Put the revealed cards on the bottom of your
library in any order.

"Reveal cards from the top of your library" (one by one, going down one for
each new card) "until you reveal a land card.". Okay - no lands, so you reveal
your entire library, then have to stop because that's all you can reveal.

"~ deals damage equal to..." the number of cards in your library.

"If the revealed land card was a Mountain" - none was revealed, so it was NOT
a Mountain - you didn't reveal a Mountain. So this sentence doesn't apply.

"Put the revealed cards" - your entire library - "on the bottom of your
library in any order."

Note that technically the revealed cards never leave the library. But yes, if
no land cards are present in that library, it all gets revealed, GC deals that
much damage to the chosen target, then all of them get ordered as owner
chooses. In that order.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"Gustavo Fischer" <gef@montevideo.com.uy> wrote:

> I´d like to know what happens
> when Goblin Charbelcher is activated with no lands in a deck.

To get a faster answer next time, search on Google groups
http://groups.google.com/groups?group=rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules
before posting. That's how I found the answer.

David Delaney is the most official official here. He says:

>David DeLaney wrote:
>> Terry Detrie <detrie@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> >If someone activated the Charbelcher and there was no land left in the
>> >library, what happens?
>>
>> Then the entire library is revealed, and GC deals that much damage to
>> the target creature or player, and then that someone puts the entire
>> library "on the bottom" in any order - they get to stack their entire
>> library
>> as they wish.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"War_Pig5" <dontsendjunk2me@hotmail.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:cjr3r2$oli$2@bob.news.rcn.net...
> "Gustavo Fischer" <gef@montevideo.com.uy> wrote:
>
> > I´d like to know what happens
> > when Goblin Charbelcher is activated with no lands in a deck.
>
> To get a faster answer next time, search on Google groups
> http://groups.google.com/groups?group=rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules
> before posting. That's how I found the answer.
>
> David Delaney is the most official official here. He says:
>
> >David DeLaney wrote:
> >> Terry Detrie <detrie@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >> >If someone activated the Charbelcher and there was no land left in the
> >> >library, what happens?
> >>
> >> Then the entire library is revealed, and GC deals that much damage to
> >> the target creature or player, and then that someone puts the entire
> >> library "on the bottom" in any order - they get to stack their entire
> >> library
> >> as they wish.

Thanks to all of you.

Sorry for not searching Google or getting the Oracle wording, but as I
stated once, I usually have to write these offline, and they get sent once
someone with access to the net sends and receives messages (see, newsgroups
are not just forums!).

Uruguay has now entered the broadband (ie civilized) world, so I might get
acces one of these days.

Thanks again,

Gustavo Fischer