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time stop vs gifts ungiven and or tooth and nail...

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Anonymous
October 10, 2004 4:43:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

my opponent casts gifts ungiven.
they search their librabry for the four cards and then i cast time stop
once they reveal the cards.
does this remove the chosen cards from the game? can this be done at
this time, or is it a question of priority (the assumption being that i
do not have priority at that time and therefore could not cast time
stop at that point.)

pretty much the same question with tooth and nail...

what it boils down to is... when do you cast time stop in order to
recieve the greatest possible effect vs. those two cards.

i know that this treads slightly into strategy, but i appreciate the
help.

-Cannibal-
Anonymous
October 10, 2004 7:42:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 00:43:26 -0400, Cannibal <cannibal@cox.net> wrote:
>my opponent casts gifts ungiven.
>they search their librabry for the four cards and then i cast time stop
>once they reveal the cards.

You have no possible way to do this; you can't announce (or resolve) spells,
or nonmana abilities, DURING the resolution of a spell or ability.

You can cast Time Stop in response to the Gifts spell, but if you do so, it
resolves BEFORE the Gifts spell resolves, so no searching has been done yet
and no cards have been revealed.

If you wait for the library-searching and the card-revealing, you can't do
anything at all other than choose two of the cards at that point; Gifts does
NOT say you can cast spells after the cards are revealed but before the spell
is done resolving (and it would have to SAY SO SPECIFICALLY to allow this to
happe). After you choose, those two go to the graveyard and the other two go
to his hand; then he shuffles his library; then Gifts Ungiven goes to his
graveyard; then ACTIVE PLAYER gets priority and can take an action. Through all
of this, YOU have no way to take any actions at all (other than the one
specified by GU, choosing two of the revealed cards).

If it's your turn, you get priority first after GU is done resolving - but he
will already have the unchosen cards in his hand. If it's his turn, you have to
wait longer to get priority, as you won't get it until after HE has passed,
after GU is done resolving. Time Stop at this point does nothing at all to the
GU, which is already fully done resolving.

>does this remove the chosen cards from the game? can this be done at
>this time, or is it a question of priority (the assumption being that i
>do not have priority at that time and therefore could not cast time
>stop at that point.)

You do not have priority at that time, and therefore cannot cast Time Stop, or
any other spell, or play any activated ability at all, at that time.

>pretty much the same question with tooth and nail...

Same answer: you can certainly Time Stop in response, and then the Tooth and
Nail never gets to resolve at all - no searching occurs, no shuffling, no
putting into play. Or you can wait until Tooth and Nail is fully done
resolving. But there's no way to cast Time Stop partway through the spell's
resolution, no way at all.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Anonymous
October 10, 2004 10:16:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Cannibal sez:

<<
>my opponent casts gifts ungiven.
>they search their librabry for the four cards and then i cast time stop
>once they reveal the cards.
>
>>

No, you don't. You wait until the GU has fully resolved before you play Time
Stop. Had you wanted to counter the GU, you'd've played TS before the GU
resolved. Now, you must wait until GU is fully resolved before playing TS, and
by then, all cards played are in the graveyard or your opp's hands.


<<
>does this remove the chosen cards from the game? can this be done at
>this time, or is it a question of priority (the assumption being that i
>do not have priority at that time and therefore could not cast time
>stop at that point.
>>

That's about the gist of it. No one has priority when a spell is resolving.

<<
>pretty much the same question with tooth and nail...
>
>what it boils down to is... when do you cast time stop in order to
>recieve the greatest possible effect vs. those two cards.
>
>>

Before they resolve. That stops them from doing ANYthing (not quite
countering, but just as effective), and they're RFG to boot, so they're now
dead cards that nothing short of a Wish can touch...


----
If [Michael Moore] makes a mistake in [F 9/11], it's not that he's careless
with the facts ... It's that he suggests Bush is the cause of our problems,
when, in fact, Bush is just the result.
--The Libertarian Lessons of Fahrenheit 9/11
Anonymous
October 10, 2004 5:56:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Cannibal wrote:

> my opponent casts gifts ungiven.
> they search their librabry for the four cards and then i cast time stop
> once they reveal the cards.
> does this remove the chosen cards from the game? can this be done at
> this time, or is it a question of priority (the assumption being that i
> do not have priority at that time and therefore could not cast time
> stop at that point.)

Dingdingdingding! We have a correct answer! Once your opponent starts
searching his library, Gifts is *resolving*. You don't get priority in
the middle of a spell resolving; you'd have to wait until the spell
finishes.
>
> pretty much the same question with tooth and nail...
>
> what it boils down to is... when do you cast time stop in order to
> recieve the greatest possible effect vs. those two cards.

Basically, before the spell starts to resolve; i.e., before it does
anything. Time Stop will then end the turn before their spell
resolves, and they will have wasted the card and the mana it took
to cast it.
>
> i know that this treads slightly into strategy, but i appreciate the
> help.
>
> -Cannibal-

--
Christopher Mattern

"Which one you figure tracked us?"
"The ugly one, sir."
"...Could you be more specific?"
!