New "comes into play" rule ?

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Hello everyone !

One of the people in my usual playgroup claims that there's a new rule
that lets "comes into play" effects only trigger when the permanent it's
on has been played from your hand. Since I haven't been following the
rules updates for the last editions and he's pretty persistent about
this, I'm asking you if there is such a rule or ruling or if there ever
has been such a thing.
I've been looking through the Comp rules but couldnt find anything in
that fashion, but then again i could have missed something...

M.G.Palmer

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"M.G.Palmer" <SatoshiUrotsukidoji@gmx.de> writes:
> One of the people in my usual playgroup claims that there's a new rule
> that lets "comes into play" effects only trigger when the permanent
> it's on has been played from your hand. Since I haven't been following
> the rules updates for the last editions and he's pretty persistent
> about this, I'm asking you if there is such a rule or ruling or if
> there ever has been such a thing.
> I've been looking through the Comp rules but couldnt find anything in
> that fashion, but then again i could have missed something...

There's no such new rule. Some newer cards (Phage the Untouchable,
Myojin of Cleansing Fire) and some older cards that have been reworded
(Cloud of Faeries, Iridescent Drake) have abilities that specifically
refer to whether they were played from your hand or not. But the card
(or more accurately, the card's most recent Oracle wording) needs to
specifically say so.

I did a search on Gatherer <http://gatherer.wizards.com> for "played
it from your hand" to find some cards that say that. If you have a
particular card that you're wondering about, you may want to look it
up there as well.

--
Peter C.
"General Use Only"
-- Restriction on bulletin board at Worcester State College

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

M.G.Palmer <SatoshiUrotsukidoji@gmx.de> wrote:
>One of the people in my usual playgroup claims that there's a new rule
>that lets "comes into play" effects only trigger when the permanent it's
>on has been played from your hand.

"I claim there is this new rule", without being able to point to ANYTHING
backing it up, is usually a sign that the player may have been either
misinformed, has misheard or misread something, or is actively trying to
fool other players. Ask this person where in the rulebook this rule is. For
best results, have a copy of the rulebook open on the computer screen next
to you both - it's at
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=magic/rules/tourneyplayer
(bottom-left-most link on the Magic webpage) in several useful formats.

>Since I haven't been following the
>rules updates for the last editions and he's pretty persistent about
>this, I'm asking you if there is such a rule or ruling or if there ever
>has been such a thing.

No.

There are some CARDS that only have their abilities like this trigger when
the card was played from your hand, but that's because _their Oracle text
says so specifically_. Eight cards from Urza block got Errata to say this,
after it proved to be a Bad Idea to have Palinchron usable to untap Tolarian
Academy repeatedly; after that the designers knew to watch out for cards that
were abusable this way, and put that text in the printed card where needed.

The cards with this restriction on their comes-into-play ability are:
Cloud of Faeries, Furnace Dragon, Great Whale, Hypnox, Iridescent Drake, Karmic
Guide, the five Myojins from Champions, Palinchron, Peregrine Drake, Priest of
Gix, Reiver Demon, and Treachery. Phage the Untouchable has a comes-into-play
ability that only triggers if you DIDN'T play it from your hand. That's all
I can find with such a restriction or a related one.

>I've been looking through the Comp rules but couldnt find anything in
>that fashion, but then again i could have missed something...

Ask the player to justify their assertion, and have a CompRules handy for them
to show you in. I'm betting they've gotten something confused -because- they
have seen one of the above cards, or (less likely) that one of their combos in
their current-favorite deck only works if they assume this, so they've assumed
the rule has been changed so their combo works.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Oh no! It's @n!
> Hello everyone !
>
> One of the people in my usual playgroup claims that there's a new rule
> that lets "comes into play" effects only trigger when the permanent it's
> on has been played from your hand. Since I haven't been following the
> rules updates for the last editions and he's pretty persistent about
> this, I'm asking you if there is such a rule or ruling or if there ever
> has been such a thing.
> I've been looking through the Comp rules but couldnt find anything in
> that fashion, but then again i could have missed something...


This has been a common misconception since the Urza's Saga days. What
happened is that a bunch of cards got errata along these lines, and
since then a bunch of newer cards have been printed with that line of
text already in place. As often happens, some players assume that just
because *some* cards work like this, *all* similar cards do. This is not
necessarily the case.

It's similar to the people who thought that all effects similar to Drain
Life couldn't give you more life than the toughness of the affected
creature, just because Drain Life had that limitation. But in reality,
Drain Life only had that limitation because the card specifically said
so; other cards that lacked this text did not have the limitation. It's
similar with comes-into-play abilities; they are only limited to working
when the card was played from your hand if they specifically say so
(maybe on the physical card, maybe in their latest Oracle text). Not all
do.

(Another possible source of confusion is the just-previewed card from
the forthcoming Unhinged set, Yet Another Aether Vortex. This card is
sort of Future Sight on steroids; it lets the top card of your library
count as being *in play*, but for reasons that have yet to be explained,
when the top card of your library changes, that does NOT trigger comes-
into-play abilities. Once again, this limitation is specific to ONE
CARD, and not even a card from a tournament-legal set at that, although
in this case it's not as clear-cut because the card doesn't actually SAY
this.)

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

----- Original Message -----
From: "David DeLaney" <dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com>
Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 10:06 PM
Subject: Re: New "comes into play" rule ?
[snip]
> There are some CARDS that only have their abilities like this trigger when
> the card was played from your hand, but that's because _their Oracle text
> says so specifically_. Eight cards from Urza block got Errata to say this,
> after it proved to be a Bad Idea to have Palinchron usable to untap
Tolarian
> Academy repeatedly; after that the designers knew to watch out for cards
that
> were abusable this way, and put that text in the printed card where
needed.
>
> The cards with this restriction on their comes-into-play ability are:
> Cloud of Faeries, Furnace Dragon, Great Whale, Hypnox, Iridescent Drake,
Karmic
> Guide, the five Myojins from Champions, Palinchron, Peregrine Drake,
Priest of
> Gix, Reiver Demon, and Treachery. Phage the Untouchable has a
comes-into-play
> ability that only triggers if you DIDN'T play it from your hand. That's
all
> I can find with such a restriction or a related one.

Any chance they'll consider "un-errata"-ing atleast some of the cards from
Urza's block? I remember they issued an emergency errata for Iridescent
Drake because of a combo (False Demise, Alter of Dementia), yet they allow a
card with a similar problem, Worldgorger Dragon, and similar combo to
dominate Type 1 for a while. I don't think if they un-errated the cards
from Urza's block we'd see any combos in Type 1 ("Vintage") any worse than
they are now.

I mean, it'd be nice if at least some of the older cards I own actually
matched their oracle text from time to time

[snip]
> Dave
> --
> \/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the
flower
> It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone
to see
> Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET
VRbeable<BLINK>
> http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all
CAPS! --K.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Mark Jenison <jenison@enteract.com> wrote:
>> The cards with this restriction on their comes-into-play ability are:
>> Cloud of Faeries, Furnace Dragon, Great Whale, Hypnox, Iridescent Drake,
>Karmic
>> Guide, the five Myojins from Champions, Palinchron, Peregrine Drake,
>Priest of
>> Gix, Reiver Demon, and Treachery. Phage the Untouchable has a
>comes-into-play
>> ability that only triggers if you DIDN'T play it from your hand. That's all
>> I can find with such a restriction or a related one.
>
>Any chance they'll consider "un-errata"-ing atleast some of the cards from
>Urza's block?

No. (To put it sort of bluntly.)

> I remember they issued an emergency errata for Iridescent
>Drake because of a combo (False Demise, Alter of Dementia), yet they allow a
>card with a similar problem, Worldgorger Dragon, and similar combo to
>dominate Type 1 for a while. I don't think if they un-errated the cards
>from Urza's block we'd see any combos in Type 1 ("Vintage") any worse than
>they are now.

Well, the only one whose combo-that-made-it-get-Errata doesn't actually WORK
any more is Karmic Guide (triggered abilities now use the stack, rather
than being played "in series" as they were when Urza block started), but no,
"the card with Errata is now strictly worse than other cards printed after it
that do not have similar Errata" is not an argument for reversing Errata, in
general. (If anything, it's an argument for looking to see if the later cards
also need to be fixed.)

Also, "it wouldn't make combos in Type I that are worse than ones that are
there now", alas, is not a really good reason to consider upgrading the power
of a card...

>I mean, it'd be nice if at least some of the older cards I own actually
>matched their oracle text from time to time

Stream of Life. Live it love it play it.

Dave "waiting for Unhinged" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.