HALF LIFE 2 wont run on NVIDIA cards

POPEGOLDX · Jul 19, 2003

<<<Well, this really bites the big one. xbit is reporting that Valve developers have identified a bug in current DX9 hardware when using FSAA algorithms. It appears that there is a workaround for ATI hardware, but is almost impossible to fix for NVIDIA based graphics cards.

Valve continued that this is a problem for any application that packs small textures into larger textures. The small textures will bleed into each other if you have multi-sample FSAA enabled.

Currently both leading graphics chips designers use multi-sampling or hybrid multi-sampling + super-sampling methods to for FSAA.

The developers of the legendary Half-Life game said that drivers are not likely to solve the problem, however, it still can be solved for graphics cards based on VPUs from ATI Technologies, such as RADEON 9500-, 9600-, 9700- and 9800-series. As for NVIDIA GeForce and GeForce FX-series, there are practically no chances to find a workaround, according to Valve.

>>>>

http://www.anandtech.com/#20106

POPEGOLDX · Jul 19, 2003

no nvidia cards for me if this is true

its fixable on ATI cards... but no way on nvidia cards

Ati the only choice

Nights_L · Jul 19, 2003

I would not worry about it, nVidia or Valve will certainly find out how to make it work, otherwise both nVidia or Valve will lose tone of profit..

POPEGOLDX · Jul 19, 2003

looks like a major re-code and a 2 month delay to me

coolsquirtle · Jul 19, 2003

LOL it's impossible for Half Life to not be able to run on nVidia cards, so what if there is a DX 9 problem? nVidia has enough money to find a way to work around it, if that means bribing Valve with tons of money, so be it!!

Proud Owner the Block Heater
120% nVidia Fanboy
I'd get a nVidia GeForce FX 5900Ultra... if i had the money and if THEY WOULD CHANGE THAT #()#@ HSF

kinney · Jul 19, 2003

Your title is just a LITTLE misleading... its a bug that results in blurry textures, doesnt even look like nvidias fault more of a direct X issue.
I was set back when reading this at first but I dont know if its that earthshaking of news.
Though it doesnt encourage me to pick up a new nvidia card!

Athlon 1700+, Epox 8RDA (NForce2), Maxtor Diamondmax Plus 9 80GB 8MB cache, 2x256mb Crucial PC2100 in Dual DDR, Geforce 3, Audigy, Z560s, MX500

confoundicator · Jul 19, 2003

I won't be running AA or AF anyway, for maximum FPS, so it doesn't matter to me. But then that's me.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.
-Einstein

TheGreatGrapeApe · Jul 19, 2003

However it's a HARDWARE issue for PS 2.0/2.0+/2,0++ (or maybe just 2.0+ since it works on the ATIs) and therefore it's an issue for the Nvidia card.
It doesn't mean that NV won't run it, just not with AA enabled (for now). I would be surprised if there isn't a work around, people will just have to be sure that the work around isn't a control panel 'cheat' to make you THINK AA is on.

In any case, I guess those advanced features like ULTRASHADOW don't help NV right now. So which is more 'future-proof' now because of it's features?

Ahhh ALL the more reason to wait for a NICE R420/RV380 IMO.

So everyone stick with your GF4 and Early Radeons. Once again PROVING you should WAIT until a game actually comes out before buying a CARD to play it.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new">RED GREEN</A> GA to SK :evil:

kinney · Jul 19, 2003

You almost sound bitter.
You'll be knocked off your powered by ATI high horse someday.

NV took a huge bite out of ATIs market in the past and they will take a bite out of their a$$.

Athlon 1700+, Epox 8RDA (NForce2), Maxtor Diamondmax Plus 9 80GB 8MB cache, 2x256mb Crucial PC2100 in Dual DDR, Geforce 3, Audigy, Z560s, MX500Edited by kinney on 07/19/03 04:47 PM.

TheGreatGrapeApe · Jul 19, 2003

You'll be knocked off your powered by ATI high horse someday.

YOU Definitely sound Bitter! And by the read, also uninformed. I have REASONS to be pissed at NV, which I've supplied here MANY times, yet I STILL recomment their products (GF4ti, GF FX5600UR.2). I try to remain objective, and I bristle at people like yourself who are neither objective or informed, yet want to share that ignorance with everyone at every opportunity, thus making me take sides AGAINST that information, making me appear less objective. Got a problem with that, then do some research, heck he POSTED the Dang link. READ it! The title may be misleading but the content is pretty straight forward. If it was JUST a DX problem then the ATI cards wouldn't have a workaround while the NVs don't, now would they? Since the NV cards cannot be 'fixed' according to VALVE, then it appears to be an NV design issue as well. And despite the fact that many may not use AA, saying otherwise downplays the seriousness of the situation. Especially coming from the company feeling they needed to add a plus to PS 2.0 (which one is the TRUE PS 2.0+ now?).

I guess you also still haven't figured out who I'm rooting for so the 'powered by comment' just proves my point.And if you have a problem with what I posted above try being specific as to exactly HOW I was leading people astray? I said it 'may' be fixed (and even mentioned one of the things NV does that ticks me off, and it ticks me off when ATI does it too). And my final sentence is one I've ALWAYS stated here. WAIT!

NV took a huge bite out of ATIs market in the past

Actually that's not really true in the areas you're talking about and I doubt you even know what area that IS true in. And it wasn't the past. They've taken a bigger bite out of Intel NOT Ati really.

and they will take a bite out of their canadian a$$.

So you have a problem with Canadians too?
Ah, so you're not only ignorant, but also jingoistic, another admirable quality.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new">RED GREEN</A> GA to SK :evil:

coolsquirtle · Jul 19, 2003

SPAZ man~~~~~diss canadians again and well u dont want to know what will happen

Proud Owner the Block Heater
120% nVidia Fanboy
I'd get a nVidia GeForce FX 5900Ultra... if i had the money and if THEY WOULD CHANGE THAT #()#@ HSF

Zeko · Jul 19, 2003

Ok, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the software manufacturers responisibility to make their software work with the hardware ... not make the hardware companies come up with fixes to work with the software? If this is a problem, why are they implementing it? From the sounds of it, it won't work on ANY card out there with the way things are now. Isn't that called a bug?

TheGreatGrapeApe · Jul 19, 2003

Well actually it would likely work well with FRAGMENT AA (based on the story, but that's just a guess), and therefore it would likely work on a MATROX Parhelia! HEhe Matrox Rulz!

Yes it's a bug, but a bug that seems fixable on an ATI card, but not on the Nvidias (for now). It's kinda like people complaining about the old (since resolved) CS issues and ATI cards. Who's fault is it. The buggy MOD of HL that's very old and can be played on an integrated chipset, or ATI's who should've focused on other newer more pressing issues? Well everyone made it ATI's fault, despite the fact that the CS programmers made a patch for the R8500s because it was their game (too old for the R9XXX series). So it depends on your perspective.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new">RED GREEN</A> GA to SK :evil:

coolsquirtle · Jul 19, 2003

next thing u know there will be two version of Half Life 2: nVidia version or ATi version lol and Maxtrox will work on both LOL

Proud Owner the Block Heater
120% nVidia Fanboy
PROUD OWNER OF THE GEFORCE FX 5900ULTRA <-- I wish this was me
I'd get a nVidia GeForce FX 5900Ultra... if THEY WOULD CHANGE THAT #()#@ HSF

phial · Jul 19, 2003

You almost sound bitter.
You'll be knocked off your powered by ATI high horse someday.

NV took a huge bite out of ATIs market in the past and they will take a bite out of their canadian a$$.

kinney ive been reading your posts sinse you came here

and just about all of them are biased. you need to get off YOUR horse, a$$

your just insulted because your Nvidia isnt the best anynmore. if you actually read up on whats going on the last year you would understand why. remmeber, its only a grphics card company. you dont HAVE to be loyal to them. they didnt do anything for you, except try to rip you off with lines like "the way its meant to be played" or "DX9+ (when actually ATI supported long pixel shader lenghs from the start as well)"

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<A HREF="http://www.quake3world.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001355.html" target="_new">*I hate thug gangstas*</A>

endyen · Jul 19, 2003

Kinney, if your anti-Canadian attitude is because of the war in Iraq, I think there is one thing you should know.
There has been no religious service held in Canada since the start of that war, that did not include a heartfelt prayer for the safe return of our American brothers and sisters. The Canadian leaders may not have felt that President Bush was right in invading a soverign nation, but that does not mean that the Canadian people wish any harm or ill on the American people.

phial · Jul 19, 2003

blind faith in government leads to exploitation of power

but whatever

video card section!

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<A HREF="http://www.quake3world.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001355.html" target="_new">*I hate thug gangstas*</A>

jiffy · Jul 19, 2003

If there ever was a time to skip a card generation this looks like it’s it. I may or may not like playing HL2, but would have to get it, because of the hype about the graphics. I heard of a couple other games with problems with AA/AF, but nooo not HL2.

I sure can’t wait, until DX9 is in full swing and all the bugs have been worked out. It should be a real hair pulling experience for everybody involved. As for HL2 I wonder what’s going to happen. Will the DX9.1 help, or will Nv
<A HREF="http://schwippy.com/loader/uploaded/nv2.jpg" target="_new">find a work around, hehe.</A>

Or will we just have to wait for the next cards? Anybody want to take a vote if some how they will manage to get AA/AF to work on the current FX cards. I bet they will, because it will be another slap in the face to Nv and they don’t need that kind of news.

kinney · Jul 19, 2003

I dont dislike canandians, I just prefer products from american companys. Like everyone, I've bought my fair share of products from other countries anyway though.

Athlon 1700+, Epox 8RDA (NForce2), Maxtor Diamondmax Plus 9 80GB 8MB cache, 2x256mb Crucial PC2100 in Dual DDR, Geforce 3, Audigy, Z560s, MX500

daddywags214 · Jul 19, 2003

WAIT WAIT WAIT, so you're saying if a Canadian company offered a product that was clearly superior product to that of an American company, given the same price, you'd take the American one? That sounds anti-Canadian to me. Hell, I'd bet you own dozens of Canadian products that you didn't even know were Canadian. Now, don't get me wrong, I love America. I live here in the states and always have, probably always will. But I don't like things that are American JUST BECAUSE they're American. I like them because they offer quality/performance/whatever. If they don't, and a Canadian or other foreign company does, I'd pick the foreign one.

These days, no matter what company you like, be it nVidia, ATi, or whatever, no matter how logical your reasons, you're labeled an idiot or a fanboy, or both.

addiarmadar · Jul 19, 2003

Most likely NVIDIA will have to go back to the drawing board on this one and make a new card, which would piss all those that bought the FX cards off for they would have to buy another one just to play the game.

kinney · Jul 19, 2003

Relax man, Ive bought ATI in the past, I have an ATI tv tuner I never got to work once I switched to windows 2000 that still doesnt work and now ATI just discontinued and they told us at RAGE3D (AN ATI WEBSITE I USED TO POST AT REGULARLY) that we'd get new drivers and we NEVER did.

Check my posts, in the tv tuner section, same screenname, you might have to dig tho its been awhile.. i bought a Hauppauge after finding I couldnt get a personal cinema.

Also, when I bought the ATI tuner, it was "clearly superior" in specifications and features and performance to everything else out on the market.
Anyway I'm not going to get into this its silly, I have my reasons for liking what I like and I'll leave it at that.
But yes, a company's origin does play a small role in my buying decisions.. but not overweighing the performance or most importantly IMHO, DRIVER SUPPORT AND RELIABILITY!
*cough ATI* *cough*

sorry for yelling.

Athlon 1700+, Epox 8RDA (NForce2), Maxtor Diamondmax Plus 9 80GB 8MB cache, 2x256mb Crucial PC2100 in Dual DDR, Geforce 3, Audigy, Z560s, MX500

daddywags214 · Jul 19, 2003

None of these guys here are having problems with ATi's driver support. Catalyst is a fine setup. So now Canadians can't do drivers? Just give up the whole Canadian thing. If you don't like ATi, fine, but if don't like Canada because of ATi, that's a problem. Plus, if you keep saying antiCanadian things, I think CoolSquirtle is going to kill you. He's crazy like that...

These days, no matter what company you like, be it nVidia, ATi, or whatever, no matter how logical your reasons, you're labeled an idiot or a fanboy, or both.

AMD_Man · Jul 19, 2003

Strange how I've been using the ATI TV Wonder for years on Windows 2000 without an issue. Might want to download the latest drivers. They came out a couple of months ago.

Intelligence is not merely the wealth of knowledge but the sum of perception, wisdom, and knowledge.

kinney · Jul 19, 2003

Really phial? I've been here a whole year longer than yourself and you've been scanning my posts ever since? And you've caught every one of them since you did?

I am not looking to getting into it with you but thats something I wanted to point out.

One thing you'l find in my posts, I admit I'm biased to NV. I listen to guys like daveperman but not greatape, in fact it was daveperman who greatly influenced my opinions years ago when I was at anandtech forums.
Guys like greatape make me want to avoid ATI like the plague, I dont want to be viewed as one of those bandwagon ATI 'bois' posting silly things about ATI when its much to easy to jump on whatever company is 10fps faster right now.

It takes alot for me to switch when NV has been extremely reliable (perfect for me through many generations of hardware since I switched from 3dfx).. is that really so bad? All I have ever heard about ATI is complaints about their software and I've experienced it firsthand.
Their nforce 2 is an A+(+++ haha) product IMO and the geforce cards ive had have had 100% success rate with everygame I've ever tried.
Its not a bad thing to have only good experiences with one company and be reluctant to try someone with a known bad reputation. Its good business.
The canandian comment was silly, I apologize to canandians in the crowd.. I could care less about iraq.. canadians are our brothers not enemys.
Nationality has had nothign to do with the troubles Ive had with ATI or NV. Its actually something unrelated that I thought about after I became bitter over the $100 tv tuner I felt ripped off over.
Apologies to those offended hope you understand my stance.
Now back to some friendly arguments.

Athlon 1700+, Epox 8RDA (NForce2), Maxtor Diamondmax Plus 9 80GB 8MB cache, 2x256mb Crucial PC2100 in Dual DDR, Geforce 3, Audigy, Z560s, MX500

HALF LIFE 2 wont run on NVIDIA cards

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