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target problem

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Anonymous
December 7, 2004 12:01:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Hello.I have a question.
I heard that,while Splice coming in, targets of different category
became to be able to target same object.
Is this mean Decimate or entwine spells can also target same object?
Or is this rule valid only for splice?

More about : target problem

Anonymous
December 7, 2004 10:01:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Oh no! It's Yusuke!
> Hello.I have a question.
> I heard that,while Splice coming in, targets of different category
> became to be able to target same object.

Huh?

What do you mean by "category", and can you give an example? I'm afraid
I, for one, can't understand the question as currently worded.

> Is this mean Decimate or entwine spells can also target same object?

Well, Decimate can now target the same thing more than once, provided it
has more than one permanent type. For example, you can choose an
artifact creature as both the artifact and the creature (but not the
enchantment or the land, of course).

The exact rule is that if a spell or ability uses the word "target" more
than once, you can choose the same thing for more than one of those
targets, provided it fits all the targeting criteria. For example, a
card that said "Destroy target artifact, target creature and target
land" can use an animated Stalking Stones for all three targets, which
would not have been possible prior to this rule change. On the other
hand, "Destroy two target creatures" could not use one creature as both
targets - that type of wording still requires two distinct targets.

Presumably those cards worded along the lines of "Destroy target
creature and return another target creature to its owner's hand" would
also still require two targets due to the word "another".

> Or is this rule valid only for splice?

The new rule about targets - if that is indeed the rule you have in mind
- was probably created to make Splice work better, but it applies
whether Splice is involved or not.
Anonymous
December 7, 2004 1:05:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Tue, 7 Dec 2004, Gareth Pye wrote:

> On 6 Dec 2004 21:01:35 -0800, ut_yusuke@yahoo.com (Yusuke) wrote:
>
>> Hello.I have a question.
>> I heard that,while Splice coming in, targets of different category
>> became to be able to target same object.
>> Is this mean Decimate or entwine spells can also target same object?
>> Or is this rule valid only for splice?
>
> yes decimate can target the same object multilpe times now, (assumeing
> the target is of the correct type for each target)
> yes a entwine spell could now thoreticly target the same object
> multiple times, but i don't think there are any that can (grab the
> reigns being the only one with multiple targets that i can think of,
> and a player can never be a creature. (What a pity that form of the
> squirell didn't just say 'you are the squirell'))

Why should a player be a creature?

Grab the Reins
{3}{R}
Instant
Choose one -- Until end of turn, you gain control of target creature
and it gains haste; or sacrifice a creature, then ~this~ deals damage
equal to that creature's power to target creature or player.
Entwine {2}{R} (Choose both if you pay the entwine cost.)

--
David
Related resources
Anonymous
December 7, 2004 7:32:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On 6 Dec 2004 21:01:35 -0800, ut_yusuke@yahoo.com (Yusuke) wrote:

>Hello.I have a question.
>I heard that,while Splice coming in, targets of different category
>became to be able to target same object.
>Is this mean Decimate or entwine spells can also target same object?
>Or is this rule valid only for splice?

yes decimate can target the same object multilpe times now, (assumeing
the target is of the correct type for each target)
yes a entwine spell could now thoreticly target the same object
multiple times, but i don't think there are any that can (grab the
reigns being the only one with multiple targets that i can think of,
and a player can never be a creature. (What a pity that form of the
squirell didn't just say 'you are the squirell'))
Anonymous
December 7, 2004 7:32:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Gareth Pye <gareth@gpsatsys.com.au> wrote:

> yes a entwine spell could now thoreticly target the same object
> multiple times, but i don't think there are any that can

Dream's Grip (pointless unless something triggers), Rain of Rust,
Spectral Shift
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 2:55:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On 6 Dec 2004 21:01:35 -0800, Yusuke <ut_yusuke@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Hello.I have a question.
>I heard that,while Splice coming in, targets of different category
>became to be able to target same object.

Almost. If the word "target" appears in different places in the text, those
occurrences can target the same thing. If it only appears in one place but
refers to several targets ("two target lands" for example) those targets
still have to be different.

>Is this mean Decimate or entwine spells can also target same object?

Decimate, yes; Entwine spells, yes - but only Dream's Grip and Spectral Shift
can usefully do this. (Grab the Reins can also do it but if it does it can't
damage the now-missing creature; Rain of Rust can do it but can't destroy the
already-destroyed artifact land, unless it regenerated from the first one.)

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 2:56:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 07:01:09 GMT, Jeff Heikkinen <no.way@jose.org> wrote:
>Presumably those cards worded along the lines of "Destroy target
>creature and return another target creature to its owner's hand" would
>also still require two targets due to the word "another".

Yes. (Where, before the rule change, that was essentially reminder text, now
it's not.)

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 3:38:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Oh no! It's David de Kloet!
> On Tue, 7 Dec 2004, Gareth Pye wrote:
>
> > On 6 Dec 2004 21:01:35 -0800, ut_yusuke@yahoo.com (Yusuke) wrote:
> >
> >> Hello.I have a question.
> >> I heard that,while Splice coming in, targets of different category
> >> became to be able to target same object.
> >> Is this mean Decimate or entwine spells can also target same object?
> >> Or is this rule valid only for splice?
> >
> > yes decimate can target the same object multilpe times now, (assumeing
> > the target is of the correct type for each target)
> > yes a entwine spell could now thoreticly target the same object
> > multiple times, but i don't think there are any that can (grab the
> > reigns being the only one with multiple targets that i can think of,
> > and a player can never be a creature. (What a pity that form of the
> > squirell didn't just say 'you are the squirell'))
>
> Why should a player be a creature?

Have you actually read Form of the Squirrel?
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 12:14:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 10:05:02 +0100, David de Kloet <dskloet@few.vu.nl>
wrote:

>On Tue, 7 Dec 2004, Gareth Pye wrote:
>
>> On 6 Dec 2004 21:01:35 -0800, ut_yusuke@yahoo.com (Yusuke) wrote:
>>
>>> Hello.I have a question.
>>> I heard that,while Splice coming in, targets of different category
>>> became to be able to target same object.
>>> Is this mean Decimate or entwine spells can also target same object?
>>> Or is this rule valid only for splice?
>>
>> yes decimate can target the same object multilpe times now, (assumeing
>> the target is of the correct type for each target)
>> yes a entwine spell could now thoreticly target the same object
>> multiple times, but i don't think there are any that can (grab the
>> reigns being the only one with multiple targets that i can think of,
>> and a player can never be a creature. (What a pity that form of the
>> squirell didn't just say 'you are the squirell'))
>
>Why should a player be a creature?
>
>Grab the Reins
>{3}{R}
>Instant
>Choose one -- Until end of turn, you gain control of target creature
>and it gains haste; or sacrifice a creature, then ~this~ deals damage
>equal to that creature's power to target creature or player.
>Entwine {2}{R} (Choose both if you pay the entwine cost.)

should read the card :( 
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 2:05:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

David DeLaney <dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote:

> Grab the Reins can also do it but if it does it can't
> damage the now-missing creature

I see nothing on Grab the Reins that would make the first target
"missing".
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 6:33:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Daniel W. Johnson <panoptes@iquest.net> wrote:
>David DeLaney <dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote:
>> Grab the Reins can also do it but if it does it can't
>> damage the now-missing creature
>
>I see nothing on Grab the Reins that would make the first target "missing".

Lemme look again... Oh, okay, let me specify closer. You can target the
same creature for the damage that you have grabbed. If you ALSO sacrificed
that same creature (to a nontargetted part of the second mode), THEN the
damage won't be able to get dealt. Sorry, was looking at a too-specific
scenario and didn't type it out. If you don't also sacrifice that same
creature, then Grab the Reins damages it just fine.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 9:49:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Oh no! It's Daniel W. Johnson!
> David DeLaney <dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote:
>
> > Grab the Reins can also do it but if it does it can't
> > damage the now-missing creature
>
> I see nothing on Grab the Reins that would make the first target
> "missing".

He seems to be assuming you're saccing the first target creature which,
though the usual case in practice, isn't actually enforced by the card
in any way.
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 9:49:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Jeff Heikkinen <no.way@jose.org> wrote:

> He seems to be assuming you're saccing the first target creature which,
> though the usual case in practice, isn't actually enforced by the card
> in any way.

For example, opponent might have an Ember-Fist Zubera with 1 damage
while you have an undamaged Silent-Chant Zubera.
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W
!