Control and Tap

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

When an effect allows you to take control of an enemy creature (for
example: The Callous Oppressor ability "{T}: Gain control of target
creature that isn't of the chosen type as long as Callous Oppressor
remains tapped.") will the creature still be tapped when I take control if
it was already tapped when I grabbed it?

A concrete example: An opponent declares an attack and assigns an elf and
a snake to attack me. I use the Callous Oppressor to take control of the
elf prior to the assign blockers step.

Do I get the elf tapped? (It would be really handy to use it to block his
snake...)

Of *course* the creature comes to me summoning sick... It's just that it
has been argued that the tapped state of the creature won't apply by some
folks I play with... since the creature is "freshly summoned".

Gene P.
Slidell LA

--
Alcore Nilth - The Mad Alchemist of Gevbeck
alcore@uurth.com

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

In newsine.LNX.4.44.0412161533400.22834-100000@uurth.com,
Gene P. <alcore@uurth.com> rambled:
>
> When an effect allows you to take control of an enemy creature (for
> example: The Callous Oppressor ability "{T}: Gain control of target
> creature that isn't of the chosen type as long as Callous Oppressor
> remains tapped.") will the creature still be tapped when I take
> control if it was already tapped when I grabbed it?

It stays in whatever state it's in, unless the card says otherwise (Blind
With Anger, for example).

> A concrete example: An opponent declares an attack and assigns an
> elf and a snake to attack me. I use the Callous Oppressor to take
> control of the elf prior to the assign blockers step.

At this point, it's too late to take control of the Elf if you want to use
it to block the Snake. However, there is a point where you could do this.
Your opponent is in his first main phase, with the stack empty. He passes
priority, trying to move to his Combat phase. You don't pass back, because
there's something you need to do - steal his Elf. He has no other effects,
and you get the Elf. Now, start it again....he passes priority to move to
Combat, and you pass back. Now, you enter the Combat phase, and each of you
has 1 untapped creature (You have the Elf and he has the Snake). You also
have the tapped Callous Opressor, of course. Now he can move to the Declare
Attackers step, and attack with the Snake - which you can block with the
Elf.

> Do I get the elf tapped? (It would be really handy to use it to
> block his snake...)

Like I said....it depends on when you do it. If he's already declared the
Elf as an attacker, then it's too late (barring some crazy effect like
Masako the Humorless)

> Of *course* the creature comes to me summoning sick...

Yep.

> It's just
> that it has been argued that the tapped state of the creature won't
> apply by some folks I play with... since the creature is "freshly
> summoned".

Well, it's not "freshly summoned", even though it's sick.

--

KB

Briscobar AT gmail DOT com

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"Gene P." <alcore@uurth.com> writes:
> When an effect allows you to take control of an enemy creature (for
> example: The Callous Oppressor ability "{T}: Gain control of target
> creature that isn't of the chosen type as long as Callous Oppressor
> remains tapped.") will the creature still be tapped when I take control if
> it was already tapped when I grabbed it?

Yes. Anything that will untap it will say so explicitly (such as
Threaten). Otherwise, it keeps its tappedness, counters, enchantments,
effects, and so on.

> A concrete example: An opponent declares an attack and assigns an elf and
> a snake to attack me. I use the Callous Oppressor to take control of the
> elf prior to the assign blockers step.
>
> Do I get the elf tapped? (It would be really handy to use it to block his
> snake...)

Yup. If your opponent attacked with a Standing Troops and a snake, you
could take the Standing Troops (which removes it from combat since
it changed controllers), and then block the snake with them.

> Of *course* the creature comes to me summoning sick... It's just that it
> has been argued that the tapped state of the creature won't apply by some
> folks I play with... since the creature is "freshly summoned".

No... And that kind of confusion is one of the reasons that the term
"summoning sickness" has been obsoleted by Wizards. It just changes
the side of the table that it's on.

--
Peter C.
DCI Local (Level 1) Judge
"This document MUST be secured in a locked cabinet to prevent it from
being disposed off with the trash." -- RFC 3251, "Electricity over IP"

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:44:12 -0600, Gene P. <alcore@uurth.com> wrote:
>When an effect allows you to take control of an enemy creature (for
>example: The Callous Oppressor ability "{T}: Gain control of target
>creature that isn't of the chosen type as long as Callous Oppressor
>remains tapped.") will the creature still be tapped when I take control if
>it was already tapped when I grabbed it?

Does the effect say to untap it _and_ gain control of it? No? Then it will
still be tapped. To untap it, you want something like Ray of Command.

Note, also, that permanents that change controllers get 'sick' in the
process - if they are creatures, they can't attack until after their new
controller's NEXT turn starts, and can't use tap-cost activated abilities
before then either.

>A concrete example: An opponent declares an attack and assigns an elf and
>a snake to attack me. I use the Callous Oppressor to take control of the
>elf prior to the assign blockers step.
>
>Do I get the elf tapped? (It would be really handy to use it to block his
>snake...)

Yes, you do. So it can't block. (You wanted to steal one of them during his
beginning-of-combat step, BEFORE he declared attackers at all.)

>Of *course* the creature comes to me summoning sick... It's just that it
>has been argued that the tapped state of the creature won't apply by some
>folks I play with... since the creature is "freshly summoned".

It is no such thing. It did not leave play; it did not enter play. It
changed -controllers-; it moved from one part of the in-play zone to another.
Nothing changed other than its controller.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.