Proper way to play spell

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Goodday to all!

I have a question about the proper way to announce a spell. If im not
mistaken, it goes like this:

1. Announce wich spell you want to play, including perhaps the which modus
2. Choose targets
3. Pay costs

If this order is correct, then im gonna make some assumptions.

1. If you do something which can't be done (like playing a spell without a
legal target), the game backs up till the moment it was fine
2. So if you announce, and THEN pay the costs like mana, then you won't have
any mana in your pool when the game backs up
3. The order of 'choose targets, then pay costs' is correct, so a Wasteland
can target himself with his ability


Wasteland
Land
{T}: Add {1} to your mana pool.
{T}, Sacrifice Wasteland: Destroy target nonbasic land.



Then something different. Player A has a Library of Alexandria in play.

Library of Alexandria
Land
{T}: Add {1} to your mana pool.
{T}: Draw a card. Play this ability only if you have exactly seven cards in
your hand.


He thinks he has 7 cards in hand, and taps the Library. Player B corrects
him, and reminds him of his six cards in hand. But Player A (who was sloppy)
didn't announce which specific ability he wanted to use. How is this
situation handled on a a high level REL play?

Because the only ability he could play was the mana ability, would it be
ruled that he has mana in his pool? Or can he claim that his miscount let
him think he had 7 cards, and that he would normally never wanted mana, so
it was never his intention?


Thnx in advance,


Duif

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Mon, 27 Dec 2004, Guido Roest wrote:

> Goodday to all!
>
> I have a question about the proper way to announce a spell. If im not
> mistaken, it goes like this:
>
> 1. Announce wich spell you want to play, including perhaps the which modus
> 2. Choose targets
> 3. Pay costs
>
> If this order is correct, then im gonna make some assumptions.
>
> 1. If you do something which can't be done (like playing a spell without a
> legal target), the game backs up till the moment it was fine
> 2. So if you announce, and THEN pay the costs like mana, then you won't have
> any mana in your pool when the game backs up

Paying mana is not the same as playing mana abilities. But since you
are allowed to play mana abilities when you are required to pay a
cost, you can do it the way you suggest most of the time.
But e.g. you can't play a Dark Ritual while you are announcing a spell
so you could end up with 3 black mana in your pool if try to do
something impossible after you play a Ritual.

> 3. The order of 'choose targets, then pay costs' is correct, so a Wasteland
> can target himself with his ability

Correct.

--
David

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"Guido Roest" <m.roest4@chello.nl> wrote in message
news:ZpQzd.175456$lN.12179@amsnews05.chello.com...
> Goodday to all!
>
> I have a question about the proper way to announce a spell. If im not
> mistaken, it goes like this:
>
> 1. Announce wich spell you want to play, including perhaps the which modus
> 2. Choose targets
> 3. Pay costs
>
> If this order is correct, then im gonna make some assumptions.
>
> 1. If you do something which can't be done (like playing a spell without a
> legal target), the game backs up till the moment it was fine

This is not entirely correct, you 'back up' the whole announcement, and the
spell goes back to your hand.

> 2. So if you announce, and THEN pay the costs like mana, then you won't
> have any mana in your pool when the game backs up

This is correct. However, if it's clear that you tapped the mana
specifically for a single purpose, you can back up the mana ability even if
you first tapped mana, then played a spell. For instance if you use an
Oxidize at end of turn, but forgot about the Leonin Abunas in play.

> 3. The order of 'choose targets, then pay costs' is correct, so a
> Wasteland can target himself with his ability
>
>
> Wasteland
> Land
> {T}: Add {1} to your mana pool.
> {T}, Sacrifice Wasteland: Destroy target nonbasic land.
>
This is correct.
>
>
> Then something different. Player A has a Library of Alexandria in play.
>
> Library of Alexandria
> Land
> {T}: Add {1} to your mana pool.
> {T}: Draw a card. Play this ability only if you have exactly seven cards
> in your hand.
>
>
> He thinks he has 7 cards in hand, and taps the Library. Player B corrects
> him, and reminds him of his six cards in hand. But Player A (who was
> sloppy) didn't announce which specific ability he wanted to use. How is
> this situation handled on a a high level REL play?
>
Nothing really happens. If player A indeed wanted to draw a card, and player
B also assumed so, both players agree to the game state, and the game backs
up. Player A announced an illegal ability. It's always useful to call over a
judge for things like this, and player A will probably recieve a warning
(more chance for that at higher REL)

> Because the only ability he could play was the mana ability, would it be
> ruled that he has mana in his pool? Or can he claim that his miscount let
> him think he had 7 cards, and that he would normally never wanted mana, so
> it was never his intention?
>
The latter. As you describe it, player B also thought the Library was tapped
to draw a card. So there's no confusion about what was meant here. The
player recieved a warning, and might recieve upgraded penalties if he does
it again, but he's not punished by putting 1 mana in his mana pool. The
reason is that such penalty is totally not a consistent punishment. One
time, the player is on 1, and has to do weird things to prevent mana burn.
Other times, it's totally not significant, since the mana is needed to cast
a spell anyway. Backing up is not a problem, and prevents these issues.


Jasper Overman
DCI L2 Judge