Blessing of Leeches questions

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Blessing of Leeches 2B
Enchant Creature BoK - Common

You may play Blessing of Leeches any time you could play an instant.
At the beginning of your upkeep, you lose 1 life.

0: Regenerate enchanted creature.

What happens if I play Blessing of Leeches on Horobi, Death's Wail?
(Whenever a creature becomes the target of a spell or ability, destroy
that creature.) Could I regenerate and save Horobi from his own ability?
As far as I can see the answer is 'no', but I'm not sure.

When they changed the regeneration rules, I forgot how it affected
creatures with zero toughness. Let's say I have a BoLeeches on a creature,
and my opponent gives that creature zero toughness. Can I save it with
regeneration? I suspect that's an unbounded loop that would count as a
game stall.

This card doesn't look abusable, but I like to be sure.

.... ...
Remus Shepherd <remus@panix.com>

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Remus Shepherd <remus@panix.com> writes:
> Blessing of Leeches 2B
> Enchant Creature BoK - Common
> You may play Blessing of Leeches any time you could play an instant.
> At the beginning of your upkeep, you lose 1 life.
> 0: Regenerate enchanted creature.
>
> What happens if I play Blessing of Leeches on Horobi, Death's Wail?
> (Whenever a creature becomes the target of a spell or ability, destroy
> that creature.) Could I regenerate and save Horobi from his own ability?
> As far as I can see the answer is 'no', but I'm not sure.

Your answer is correct. You can play the Blessing of Leeches spell
targeting Horobi, which triggers his ability. The ability will resolve
before the Blessing will, and the Blessing needs to resolve in order
for you to be able to play its ability. So the Horobi will destroy
itself, and the Blessing would get countered due to having an illegal
target.

> When they changed the regeneration rules, I forgot how it affected
> creatures with zero toughness. Let's say I have a BoLeeches on a creature,
> and my opponent gives that creature zero toughness. Can I save it with
> regeneration? I suspect that's an unbounded loop that would count as a
> game stall.

Regeneration can only replace "destroy" effects, which are only things
that say the word "destroy" on them and lethal damage (since the
rulebook uses the word "destroy"). Any other way of something dying
(sacrifices, zero toughness, or the Legend rule, for instance) isn't
stopped by regeneration.

Note that if you had the Blessing on something before Horobi was in
play, you could move it onto the Horobi using something like Aura
Graft or something else that didn't target a creature but moved the
enchantment.

--
Peter C.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to get back to reality.
Wherever that is.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Remus Shepherd wrote:

> Blessing of Leeches 2B
> Enchant Creature BoK - Common
>
> You may play Blessing of Leeches any time you could play an instant.
> At the beginning of your upkeep, you lose 1 life.
>
> 0: Regenerate enchanted creature.
>
> What happens if I play Blessing of Leeches on Horobi, Death's Wail?
> (Whenever a creature becomes the target of a spell or ability, destroy
> that creature.)

It dies. Horobi becomes a target of Blessing when the Blessing is
played, placing its triggered ability on the stack immediately after
you finish playing Blessing. You can't play the Blessing's activated
ability until after the Blessing resolves and comes into play, but
the Horobi's triggered ability resolves first, destroying it (and then
the Blessing is countered on resolution, since its target is gone)

> Could I regenerate and save Horobi from his own ability?
> As far as I can see the answer is 'no', but I'm not sure.

No, you can't.
>
> When they changed the regeneration rules, I forgot how it affected
> creatures with zero toughness.

It now works that a creature with zero toughness is not destroyed, it
is simply placed in the graveyard. So it can't be regenerated (In
fact, the rule on reducing toughness to zero redundantly states that
specifically).

> Let's say I have a BoLeeches on a
> creature,
> and my opponent gives that creature zero toughness. Can I save it with
> regeneration?

No.

> I suspect that's an unbounded loop that would count as a
> game stall.

It's not anything. Regeneration doesn't stop it from being placed in
the graveyard at all. Not even being indestructible stops a creature
with toughness 0 from going to the graveyard.
>
> This card doesn't look abusable, but I like to be sure.
>
> ... ...
> Remus Shepherd <remus@panix.com>

--
Christopher Mattern

"Which one you figure tracked us?"
"The ugly one, sir."
"...Could you be more specific?"

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Remus Shepherd <remus@panix.com> wrote:

> Blessing of Leeches 2B
> Enchant Creature BoK - Common
>
> You may play Blessing of Leeches any time you could play an instant.
> At the beginning of your upkeep, you lose 1 life.
>
> 0: Regenerate enchanted creature.
>
> What happens if I play Blessing of Leeches on Horobi, Death's Wail?
> (Whenever a creature becomes the target of a spell or ability, destroy
> that creature.) Could I regenerate and save Horobi from his own ability?
> As far as I can see the answer is 'no', but I'm not sure.

Horobi would be destroyed by its own ability while Bessing of Leeches is
still on the stack. And then Blessing of Leeches would be countered
when it tries to resolve.

> When they changed the regeneration rules, I forgot how it affected
> creatures with zero toughness. Let's say I have a BoLeeches on a creature,
> and my opponent gives that creature zero toughness. Can I save it with
> regeneration? I suspect that's an unbounded loop that would count as a
> game stall.

Regeneration replaces destruction. It does not interfere with other
zone changes, including the consequences of non-positive toughness.

420.5b A creature with toughness 0 or less is put into its owner's
graveyard. Regeneration can't replace this event.
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Remus Shepherd <remus@panix.com> wrote:
>Blessing of Leeches 2B
>Enchant Creature BoK - Common
>
>You may play Blessing of Leeches any time you could play an instant.
>At the beginning of your upkeep, you lose 1 life.
>
>0: Regenerate enchanted creature.

> What happens if I play Blessing of Leeches on Horobi, Death's Wail?
>(Whenever a creature becomes the target of a spell or ability, destroy
>that creature.) Could I regenerate and save Horobi from his own ability?
>As far as I can see the answer is 'no', but I'm not sure.

Nope. The enchantment spell targets Horobi; Horobi's ability triggers and
goes on the stack -on top of- the enchantment spell. And kills Horobi before
the enchantment spell can resolve ... so, later, the spell gets countered for
(now-)missing target when it tries to resolve.

> When they changed the regeneration rules, I forgot how it affected
>creatures with zero toughness.

It used to, a long time ago, but they would immediately die again; since 6E
rules, 0 or less toughness won't even invoke a regeneration shield at all,
because it doesn't destroy the creature, it just puts it straight into the
graveyard. So no, the Leeches won't help a creature that's shrunk too small.

> Let's say I have a BoLeeches on a creature,
>and my opponent gives that creature zero toughness. Can I save it with
>regeneration? I suspect that's an unbounded loop that would count as a
>game stall.

You can use the regeneration ability to make as many shields as you like,
before the 'its toughness goes to 0' effect resolves - but none of the shields
will do anything, and the creature will be put into the graveyard.

(And yes, since this is an ability that costs 0, you can keep adding it after
one resolves, but yes, that's an unbounded loop with optional actions, and you
have to pick a -number- of times you'll do it, then go on...)

> This card doesn't look abusable, but I like to be sure.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

> What happens if I play Blessing of Leeches on Horobi, Death's Wail?
> (Whenever a creature becomes the target of a spell or ability, destroy
> that creature.) Could I regenerate and save Horobi from his own ability?
> As far as I can see the answer is 'no', but I'm not sure.

When You play Blessing on Horobi, stack looks like this:

- Top -
Horobi's Ability
Blessing of the Leeches (not in play yet!)
- Bottom -

So Horobi's ability triggers, he is destroyed, and after that Blessing
of the Leeches goes to the graveyard, since its target isn't present on
resolution.
Simply put - no, you can't save Horobi by using Blessing of the Leeches
regeneration ability, because he isn't in play when Blessing comes into
play.

> When they changed the regeneration rules, I forgot how it affected
> creatures with zero toughness. Let's say I have a BoLeeches on a creature,
> and my opponent gives that creature zero toughness. Can I save it with
> regeneration? I suspect that's an unbounded loop that would count as a
> game stall.

When a creature has 0 or less toughness, it goes to a graveyard as a
state-based effect. This doesn't count as destroy effect, so
regeneration doesn't work here.

Hope I've been helpful.
Piotr Lopaciuk
a.k.a. StilghAR

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Remus Shepherd wrote:
> Blessing of Leeches 2B
> Enchant Creature BoK - Common
>
> You may play Blessing of Leeches any time you could play an instant.
> At the beginning of your upkeep, you lose 1 life.
>
> 0: Regenerate enchanted creature.
>
> What happens if I play Blessing of Leeches on Horobi, Death's
Wail?
> (Whenever a creature becomes the target of a spell or ability,
destroy
> that creature.) Could I regenerate and save Horobi from his own
ability?
> As far as I can see the answer is 'no', but I'm not sure.

The answer is indeed "no", as many others have already pointed out. It
seems that there are only two ways to successfully put BoL on Horobi in
today's Type 2:
1) Regenerate all your creatures in advance with Wail of the Nim, then
play Blessing of Leeches, targeting Horobi;
2) Move BoL from some other creature to Horobi with Autumn-Tail,
Kitsune Sage (the flip side of Kitsune Mystic). Autumn-Tail's ability
targets the enchantment, not the creatures (works around
untargetability of Humble Budoka, Troll Ascetics and the likes).

Wail of the Nim
2B
Instant
Choose one - Regenerate each creature you control; or ~ deals 1 damage
to each creature and each player.
Entwine B (Choose both if you pay the entwine cost.)

Kitsune Mystic
3W
Creature - Fox Wizard
2/3
At end of turn, if ~ is enchanted by two or more enchantments, flip it.
-----
Autumn-Tail, Kitsune Sage
Legendary Creature - Fox Wizard
4/5
1: Move target enchantment enchanting a creature to another creature.