"Almost Gone" - John Carter's take on the white Genju

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Okay, so in the most recent installment of Saturday School
on the magicthegathering.com website, John Carter stated
that

| if you repeatedly activate Genju of the Fields, it will get the
| "Whenever this creature deals damage, you gain that much life"
| text multiple times.

I don't understand why this is the case. The card's text doesn't
say "gains" but "becomes", so this is characteristics-setting text,
right? Activating the white Genju multiple times would overwrite
the previous state time and again, each resolution turning the
land into a 2/5 white Spirit creature with exactly one instance
of the "spirit link"-ability. Or what am I missing?

Thanks for any information on this.
4 answers Last reply
More about almost gone john carter white genju
  1. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

    Reinhard Schilmöller <schilmo@uni-muenster.de> writes:
    > Okay, so in the most recent installment of Saturday School
    > on the magicthegathering.com website, John Carter stated
    > that
    >
    > | if you repeatedly activate Genju of the Fields, it will get the
    > | "Whenever this creature deals damage, you gain that much life"
    > | text multiple times.

    Yup.

    > I don't understand why this is the case. The card's text doesn't
    > say "gains" but "becomes", so this is characteristics-setting text,
    > right?

    Nope. The word "becomes" isn't one of the Magic words that does this,
    and the Genju is affecting another object here anyway.

    ,----[ Magic Comp. Rules <http://www.wizards.com/magic/welcome.asp> ]
    | 405.2. Some objects have static abilities which state that the
    | object "has" one or more abilities or characteristic values;
    | "is" a particular type, supertype, subtype, or color; or that one or
    | more of its characteristics "is" or "are" a particular value. These
    | abilities are characteristic-setting abilities. Abilities of an
    | object that affect the characteristics of another object are not
    | characteristic-setting abilities. See rule 201, "Characteristics,"
    | and rule 418.5a.
    `----

    > Activating the white Genju multiple times would overwrite the
    > previous state time and again, each resolution turning the land into
    > a 2/5 white Spirit creature with exactly one instance of the "spirit
    > link"-ability. Or what am I missing?

    Each activation sets the power/toughness to 2/5, sets the color to
    white, sets the type to creature (although keeping old types due to
    the later "It's still a land"), sets the creature type to Spirit, and
    gives it the "Whenever this creature deals damage, you gain that much
    life." ability. Unlike the other things it does in the same sentence,
    giving something an ability doesn't remove all the old abilities.
    (After all, the old "{T}: Add {W} to your mana pool" ability is still
    there, isn't it?)

    > Thanks for any information on this.

    I hope that this helped, and hopefully others will be able to explain
    it even better. Please post again if you have any more questions.

    --
    Peter C.
    "The corn muffin shall be the official muffin of the commonwealth."
    -- Mass. General Law, Chapter 2, Section 28.
  2. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

    Reinhard Schilmöller <schilmo@uni-muenster.de> wrote:
    >Okay, so in the most recent installment of Saturday School
    >on the magicthegathering.com website, John Carter stated
    >that
    >
    >| if you repeatedly activate Genju of the Fields, it will get the
    >| "Whenever this creature deals damage, you gain that much life"
    >| text multiple times.
    >
    >I don't understand why this is the case. The card's text doesn't
    >say "gains" but "becomes", so this is characteristics-setting text,
    >right?

    Nope. Why? Because it is not doing anything to the _Genju enchantment_.
    Characteristic-setting text, by definition, has to be setting the
    characteristics of the object it's on (405.2). The Genju enchantment's
    ability is making the Plains become something-or-other, so this is not
    a characteristic-setting ability, or characteristic-setting text.

    >Activating the white Genju multiple times would overwrite
    >the previous state time and again,

    Yes. But: the effect does not say it -loses- any -previous- abilities. The
    rulebook does say the color gets overwritten (Glossary, 'Color'), and the
    power and toughness are obviously overwriting the previous values (if any),
    not adding a new power and toughness alongside the current one. But nothing
    says this about abilities; using a Genju ability on enchanted land doesn't
    take away that land's _mana_ abilities, for example.

    >each resolution turning the
    >land into a 2/5 white Spirit creature with exactly one instance
    >of the "spirit link"-ability. Or what am I missing?

    You're missing that it's not a char-setting ability, and is not removing
    previous instances of this ability the land (creature) may have - or any
    other ability it may have either.

    Dave
    --
    \/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
    It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
    Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
    http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
  3. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

    >>| if you repeatedly activate Genju of the Fields, it will get the
    >>| "Whenever this creature deals damage, you gain that much life"
    >>| text multiple times.
    >>
    >>I don't understand why this is the case. The card's text doesn't
    >>say "gains" but "becomes", so this is characteristics-setting text,
    >>right?
    >
    > Nope. Why? Because it is not doing anything to the _Genju enchantment_.
    > Characteristic-setting text, by definition, has to be setting the
    > characteristics of the object it's on (405.2). The Genju enchantment's
    > ability is making the Plains become something-or-other, so this is not
    > a characteristic-setting ability, or characteristic-setting text.

    And if 2 Essence Slivers in play, all Slivers have 2 instances of the
    "Whenever this creature deals damage, you gain that much life" ability. And
    I gain 2 life for each point of life my Sliver deals. Right? If so, this
    example might be easier for people to grasp. If not... please explain why
    the difference between Essence Sliver & Genju of the Fields.
  4. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

    On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 01:34:24 -0500, Giant Giant <nosp@m> wrote:
    >> Nope. Why? Because it is not doing anything to the _Genju enchantment_.
    >> Characteristic-setting text, by definition, has to be setting the
    >> characteristics of the object it's on (405.2). The Genju enchantment's
    >> ability is making the Plains become something-or-other, so this is not
    >> a characteristic-setting ability, or characteristic-setting text.
    >
    >And if 2 Essence Slivers in play, all Slivers have 2 instances of the
    >"Whenever this creature deals damage, you gain that much life" ability.

    Well, no. Look at Essence Sliver:

    Essence Sliver 3W Creature - Sliver
    3/3 Whenever a Sliver deals damage, its controller gains that much life.

    This, unlike almost all other Slivers, doesn't give something _to all
    other Slivers_.

    However, if two of these are out, each one has a separate instance of the
    triggered ability which is -watching for- any Sliver to deal damage, and
    both will trigger off of that, and you'll end up gaining twice the damage
    in life. But the abilities are not _on the Sliver dealing damage itself_ here.

    >And I gain 2 life for each point of life my Sliver deals. Right?

    Each point of damage, and you end up gaining twice the damage, right.

    Dave
    --
    \/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
    It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
    Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
    http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
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