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Cloud of Faeries and Mind's Desire interaction

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Anonymous
February 27, 2005 7:18:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Hello again,

My question is if a Cloud of Faeries played from the RFG Zone thanks
to Mind's Desire can untap lands.

In my local shop it is played as though it can, but I can't understand
the why.

Since you play it "as though" it was in your hand, it triggers? Or
would it be the other way round - because you didn't actually play it
from your hand, it doesn't trigger?

Also, would it be the same for Future Sight?

Oracle Text (from Gatherer):

Cloud of Faeries

Flying
When Cloud of Faeries comes into play, if you played it from your
hand, untap up to two lands.
Cycling (, Discard this card: Draw a card.)

Mind's Desire

Shuffle your library. Then remove the top card of your library from
the game. Until end of turn, you may play it as though it were in your
hand without paying its mana cost. (If it has X in its mana cost, X is
0.)
Storm (When you play this spell, copy it for each spell played before
it this turn.)

Thanks,

Gustavo Fischer
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 10:40:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Gustavo Fischer wrote:

> Hello again,
>
> My question is if a Cloud of Faeries played from the RFG Zone thanks
> to Mind's Desire can untap lands.
>
> In my local shop it is played as though it can, but I can't understand
> the why.

The why is that your local shop players are not playing it right.
>
> Since you play it "as though" it was in your hand, it triggers? Or
> would it be the other way round - because you didn't actually play it
> from your hand, it doesn't trigger?
>
> Also, would it be the same for Future Sight?

Nope. "You may play it as though it were in your hand" means that
the action of playing the card--and *only* the action of playing
the card--gets to treat the card as if it were in your hand. The
Cloud's triggered ability is not the action of playing the card;
it's a triggered ability. Therefore it gets told the truth--the
Cloud didn't come from your hand. So the triggered ability doesn't
trigger, and no lands untap.
>
> Oracle Text (from Gatherer):
>
> Cloud of Faeries
>
> Flying
> When Cloud of Faeries comes into play, if you played it from your
> hand, untap up to two lands.
> Cycling (, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
>
> Mind's Desire
>
> Shuffle your library. Then remove the top card of your library from
> the game. Until end of turn, you may play it as though it were in your
> hand without paying its mana cost. (If it has X in its mana cost, X is
> 0.)
> Storm (When you play this spell, copy it for each spell played before
> it this turn.)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gustavo Fischer

--
Christopher Mattern

"Which one you figure tracked us?"
"The ugly one, sir."
"...Could you be more specific?"
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 4:58:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On 27 Feb 2005 16:18:26 -0800, Gustavo Fischer <gefxar@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Hello again,
>
>My question is if a Cloud of Faeries played from the RFG Zone thanks
>to Mind's Desire can untap lands.

Nope. It was not played from your hand.

>In my local shop it is played as though it can, but I can't understand
>the why.

Well, probably because someone is misunderstanding it.

>Since you play it "as though" it was in your hand, it triggers? Or
>would it be the other way round - because you didn't actually play it
>from your hand, it doesn't trigger?

The latter is correct. The 'as though it were in your hand' is actually a
fairly large error to have included, it turns out; nothing in the rulebook
says you HAVE to play spells from your hand only, it's just that nothing
_allows_ you to other than 401.1 . So it's not actually necessary to use
"as though" to get around some sort of supposed rule that would otherwise
stop this, in this case. If you think about it as if Mind's Desire read
"Until end of turn, you may play it without paying its mana cost." it actually
makes _more_ sense - you're playing it like normal, except from an odd place
and without paying the listed cost.

Anything that checks "if you played it from your hand" checks three things:
a) if -you- are the person involved - it won't trigger if opponent played
it from their hand but somehow it is appearing under your control
b) if it was _played_ - cast as a spell. The Cloud won't trigger if it was
just plain put into play through the agency of some other spell or ability,
such as Elvish Piper or Show and Tell; it actually has to have been cast as
a spell.
and
c) if it came _from your hand_ to the stack. The Cloud won't trigger if it
came from anywhere else to the stack. In particular, for your question, it
won't trigger if played from the RFG zone, whether that's through Mind's
Desire, Three Wishes, Elkin Bottle, or whatever other odd effect is letting
you play it from there.

[The intent was, if I remember right, to make sure it didn't trigger if you
played it from your -graveyard- through Yawgmoth's Will, because a nice little
quickly-unbounded-looping deck archetype would have been possible in Urza
block if you -could- do this. But the wording also makes sure it won't trigger
if played from the RFG zone, from someone ELSE'S hand, directly from your
library, etc.]

>Also, would it be the same for Future Sight?

It would be the same. Future Sight lets you play the top card of your library,
though it still makes you pay for it. But you're not playing it from your hand.
Again, it's actually easier to understand if you think of it as though it read
just "You may play the top card of your library"; the 'as though it were in
your hand' is actually a source of mass confusion to players, alas. The
rulebook -defines- what that means, but players continually seem to interpret
it in ways that the rulebook specifically notes aren't how it works, just
from how reading it looks to them...

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
February 28, 2005 10:38:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Gustavo Fischer sez:
<<
> Hello again,
>
> My question is if a Cloud of Faeries played from the RFG Zone thanks
> to Mind's Desire can untap lands.
>
>>

Nope. You didn't play it from your hand, so it untaps nothing.

<<
> In my local shop it is played as though it can, but I can't
understand
> the why.
>
> Since you play it "as though" it was in your hand, it triggers? Or
> would it be the other way round - because you didn't actually play it
> from your hand, it doesn't trigger?
>>

The second. And that misconception is why the latest set seems to have
eliminated the phrase "as though it were in your hand" (see Toshiro
Umezawa).

<<
> Also, would it be the same for Future Sight?
>>

Yep.
!