Ornate Kanzashi

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Ornate Kanzashi

5, Artifact
{2}, {T}: Target opponent removes the top card of his or her library
from the game. You may play that card this turn.



alright... the card says that you may play the removed card this turn.

what if...

my opponent anounces his intention to attack. he declares attackers. i
activate the Ornate Kanzashi and it reveals a creature. can i play this
creature? i fully understand that i cannot normally cast creatures
during my opponents attack phase, but the Ornate Kanzashi does not
specify. is that lack of specifics a loop hole for that card or am i
just wanting to see something that is simply not there. what if i use
the Ornate Kanzashi and it reveals a land? can i play that during my
opponents turn?

i'm thinking about the language that appears on some other
cards...things like "can only be used when you could cast a sorcery",
"can only be used on your turn"... Ornate Kanzashi doesn't have any of
that.

-thoughts?
-Cannibal-

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Cannibal wrote:

> Ornate Kanzashi
>
> 5, Artifact
> {2}, {T}: Target opponent removes the top card of his or her library
> from the game. You may play that card this turn.
>
>
>
> alright... the card says that you may play the removed card this turn.
>
> what if...
>
> my opponent anounces his intention to attack. he declares attackers. i
> activate the Ornate Kanzashi and it reveals a creature. can i play this
> creature?

Not unless it can be played as an instant. Ornate Kanzashi allows you
to play a card you normally couldn't play (you normally don't get to
play cards in your opponent's removed-from-game zone), but doesn't
win you any exemptions from when it's legal to play it.

> i fully understand that i cannot normally cast creatures
> during my opponents attack phase, but the Ornate Kanzashi does not
> specify. is that lack of specifics a loop hole for that card or am i
> just wanting to see something that is simply not there. what if i use
> the Ornate Kanzashi and it reveals a land?

Then you could play it any time you could normally play a land.

> can i play that during my
> opponents turn?

No, because you can't play a land then.
>
> i'm thinking about the language that appears on some other
> cards...things like "can only be used when you could cast a sorcery",
> "can only be used on your turn"... Ornate Kanzashi doesn't have any of
> that.

Because it doesn't involve any such limitations. In your first
example, if you revealed an Instant, you could play it during
your opponent's attack, because you can play Instants then.
>
> -thoughts?
> -Cannibal-

--
Christopher Mattern

"Which one you figure tracked us?"
"The ugly one, sir."
"...Could you be more specific?"

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 12:21:12 -0500, Cannibal <jpatsfield@mac.com> wrote:
>Ornate Kanzashi 5, Artifact
> {2}, {T}: Target opponent removes the top card of his or her library
>from the game. You may play that card this turn.
>
>alright... the card says that you may play the removed card this turn.

You still have to abide by any restrictions there are on playing that card,
just as if it said "you may play it as though it were <place>". To break
restrictions on -when- you can play something, the card has to specify it.

> what if...
>
> my opponent anounces his intention to attack. he declares attackers. i
>activate the Ornate Kanzashi and it reveals a creature. can i play this
>creature? i fully understand that i cannot normally cast creatures
>during my opponents attack phase, but the Ornate Kanzashi does not
>specify.

Right. And because it doesn't -specify- that it can break this rule? It can't.
Cards can't override rules "in passing" - they have to actually say they do,
in one way or another.

>is that lack of specifics a loop hole for that card or am i
>just wanting to see something that is simply not there. what if i use
>the Ornate Kanzashi and it reveals a land? can i play that during my
>opponents turn?

Unfortunately, you are reading about > -- < this too much into the card. It
does not allow you to play lands during your opponent's turn, either.

> i'm thinking about the language that appears on some other
>cards...things like "can only be used when you could cast a sorcery",
>"can only be used on your turn"... Ornate Kanzashi doesn't have any of that.

Partly because it could find any kind of card, and there's three different
sets of rules for when you can play Magic cards - one for lands, one for
Instant spells, and one for other cards. It doesn't -stop- you from being able
to use the rules appropriate to the card, but it doesn't let you use some
-other- card type's rules either.

(And because I know someone's going to ask - yes, you can play a land any
time you could play a Sorcery, in effect, but you -also- can't play a land
if you've already played one this turn, and Sorceries don't have that
additional restriction on when you can play them.)

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Cannibal <jpatsfield@mac.com> wrote:

> i fully understand that i cannot normally cast creatures
> during my opponents attack phase, but the Ornate Kanzashi does not
> specify.

The Kanzashi allows you to play that card this turn, which you normally
couldn't (because it's not in your hand). However, you still have to
meet all requirements needed to play it, both regarding costs (mana cost
etc.) and game state (i.e. you must be in your main phase with nothing
on the stack to play a sorcery or creature). So, no creatures during the
opponent's combat phase (unless it somehow allows you to play it any
time you could play an instant i.e. Aluren or similar card in play).

> i'm thinking about the language that appears on some other
> cards...things like "can only be used when you could cast a sorcery",
> "can only be used on your turn"... Ornate Kanzashi doesn't have any of
> that.

While it doesn't have any of the limits you mentioned, it doesn't give
you any other exemption on the regular game rules (something like "you
may play this card any time you could play an instant").

- ∞

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Cannibal <jpatsfield@mac.com> sent:
> Ornate Kanzashi

> 5, Artifact
> {2}, {T}: Target opponent removes the top card of his or her library
> from the game. You may play that card this turn.

>

> alright... the card says that you may play the removed card this turn.

It specifies a card that it removed from the game that you don't own,
so it changes the normal rule that you can only play cards that you
own, and that are in your hand, to add in the card that got removed by
that ability. All the other restrictions on playing cards are still
there. So, if it's a Sorcery card, then you can only play it on your
own turn, main phase, when the stack is empty, and so on.

> what if...

> my opponent anounces his intention to attack.

Opponent's turn, first main phase, he passes priority and the stack
is empty.

> he declares attackers.

OK, so some more priority got passed with nothing else happening.

> i
> activate the Ornate Kanzashi and it reveals a creature. can i play this
> creature?

You normally play creatures from your hand in your own main phase
when the stack is empty. The Kanzashi changes this for the creature
you revealed so that you can play that card from the RFG zone in
your own main phase when the stack is empty. That alone doesn't
let you play that creature, as it's not your turn. You'd need to
have something else let you play it when you could play an instant.

> i fully understand that i cannot normally cast creatures
> during my opponents attack phase, but the Ornate Kanzashi does not
> specify. is that lack of specifics a loop hole for that card or am i
> just wanting to see something that is simply not there. what if i use
> the Ornate Kanzashi and it reveals a land? can i play that during my
> opponents turn?

No, for the same reasons as above.

> i'm thinking about the language that appears on some other
> cards...things like "can only be used when you could cast a sorcery",
> "can only be used on your turn"... Ornate Kanzashi doesn't have any of
> that.

The Kanzashi's ability allows you to play the card despite the things
that that ability did that would normally mean you couldn't play the
card. It points to a card that you don't own, and that isn't in your
hand, and says that you can play that card. It doesn't say anything
else about playing that card, so it doesn't override anything else.
You still have to follow all the other timing rules, you just get to
play the card despite it being one you don't own that isn't in your
hand.

--
-- zoe

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

David DeLaney <dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 12:21:12 -0500, Cannibal <jpatsfield@mac.com> wrote:
>>Ornate Kanzashi 5, Artifact
>> {2}, {T}: Target opponent removes the top card of his or her library
>>from the game. You may play that card this turn.
>>
>>alright... the card says that you may play the removed card this turn.
>
>You still have to abide by any restrictions there are on playing that card,
>just as if it said "you may play it as though it were <place>". To break
>restrictions on -when- you can play something, the card has to specify it.

One more note here, possibly getting to the root of the misunderstanding:
The "You may play that card this turn" is _not_ an instruction that you can
break the rules about -which turn- to play it on. It's an instruction, "You
may play that card", combined with a _duration_, "this turn".

It could also have been worded something like "You may play that card until
end of turn" or "This turn, you may play that card", but those still have the
possible misinterpretation you had (we don't really have any other way TO
specify the duration that doesn't also get misinterpreted that way) plus they
start getting into a totally separate misinterpreting problem, "So ... I can
play it again and again this turn?" [NO, because the moment you announce it
the first time it leaves the RFG zone and goes onto the stack].

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.