'You' vs. 'its controller' and delayed effects

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Just to make sure I got this right: When a spell or ability creates
an effect that is scheduled to go off later in the game, some of them
talk directly to 'you' while others refer specifically to the card's
'controller'. There *is* a functional difference here, correct?

Sample scenario: My opponent has both a Mogg Hollows and a Pinecrest
Ridge in play -- effectively identical save for their names and that
one difference --, both recently tapped to produce colored mana. By
some means (overworked Orcish Squatters, perhaps), I manage to gain
control of both lands and hang on to them until my next untap step
rolls around.

/* Begin Oracle */

Mogg Hollows
Land
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
T: Add R or G to your mana pool. Mogg Hollows doesn't untap during
its controller's next untap step.

Pinecrest Ridge
Land
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
T: Add R or G to your mana pool. Pinecrest Ridge doesn't untap during
your next untap step.

/* End Oracle */

So...which of them do I actually get to untap? Intuitively, I would
guess it's okay for me to untap the Ridge (since *my* untap step
obviously can't ever be my opponent's *next*), but not the Hollows
(because it appears to track controllers and prevent the next
regular untap, no matter whose turn it actually is)...

==
Klaus Mittag (mittag@informatik.uni-frankfurt.de)
#include <disclaimer.h>
#include <fancysig.h>
spam > /dev/null

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

My first guess would be you don't untap both of them since YOU are
controlling both of them....supposed it would have said Owners turn...then
you could untap the hollows....that is if i'm right !
"Klaus Mittag" <mittag@informatik.uni-frankfurt.de> a écrit dans le message
de news: 39tjkjF66akn8U1@news.dfncis.de...
> Just to make sure I got this right: When a spell or ability creates
> an effect that is scheduled to go off later in the game, some of them
> talk directly to 'you' while others refer specifically to the card's
> 'controller'. There *is* a functional difference here, correct?
>
> Sample scenario: My opponent has both a Mogg Hollows and a Pinecrest
> Ridge in play -- effectively identical save for their names and that
> one difference --, both recently tapped to produce colored mana. By
> some means (overworked Orcish Squatters, perhaps), I manage to gain
> control of both lands and hang on to them until my next untap step
> rolls around.
>
> /* Begin Oracle */
>
> Mogg Hollows
> Land
> T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
> T: Add R or G to your mana pool. Mogg Hollows doesn't untap during
> its controller's next untap step.
>
> Pinecrest Ridge
> Land
> T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
> T: Add R or G to your mana pool. Pinecrest Ridge doesn't untap during
> your next untap step.
>
> /* End Oracle */
>
> So...which of them do I actually get to untap? Intuitively, I would
> guess it's okay for me to untap the Ridge (since *my* untap step
> obviously can't ever be my opponent's *next*), but not the Hollows
> (because it appears to track controllers and prevent the next
> regular untap, no matter whose turn it actually is)...
>
> ==
> Klaus Mittag (mittag@informatik.uni-frankfurt.de)
> #include <disclaimer.h>
> #include <fancysig.h>
> spam > /dev/null
>

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Although the controller of both the land´s activated ability is the
opponent these abilities set up a continious effect which refer to the
lands themselves.

"~this~ doesn´t untap" ...

Although I have no definite proof for this I do assume neither the ridge
nor the hollows untap during your next untap step but both will do
during your 2nd (and not during you opponent´s).

You are the controller of the ridge no matter who controlled the
activated abiliy which set up the continuous effect.

"You, Your

The words “you” and “your” on an object refer to the object’s controller
(or its owner if it has no controller). For static abilities, this is
the current controller of the object it’s on. For activated abilities,
this is the player who played the ability. For triggered abilities, this
is the controller of the object when the ability triggered. See also
Controller, Owner."

"418. Continuous Effects

418.1. A continuous effect modifies characteristics of objects or
modifies the rules of the game for a fixed or indefinite period. A
continuous effect may be generated by the resolution of a spell or
ability or by a static ability of an object."

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Although the controller of both the land´s activated ability at the time
they ware tapped was you opponent these abilities set up continuous
effects which refer to the lands themselves.

The oracle wording should be interpreted as "~this~ doesn´t untap..."

Although I have no definite proof I do assume neither the ridge nor the
hollows untap during your next untap step but both will do during your
2nd next (and not during you opponent´s).

You are the controller of the ridge no matter who controlled the
activated abiliy which set up the continuous effect.

"You, Your

The words “you” and “your” on an object refer to the object’s controller
(or its owner if it has no controller). For static abilities, this is
the current controller of the object it’s on. For activated abilities,
this is the player who played the ability. For triggered abilities, this
is the controller of the object when the ability triggered. See also
Controller, Owner."

"418. Continuous Effects

418.1. A continuous effect modifies characteristics of objects or
modifies the rules of the game for a fixed or indefinite period. A
continuous effect may be generated by the resolution of a spell or
ability or by a static ability of an object."

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Although the controller of both the land´s activated abilities at the
time they were tapped was your opponent these abilities set up
continuous effects which refer to the lands themselves.

The oracle wording should be interpreted as "~this~ doesn´t untap..."

I have no definite proof but I do assume neither the ridge nor the
hollows untap during your next untap step but both will do so during
your 2nd next (and not during you opponent´s).

You are the controller of the ridge no matter who controlled the
activated abiliy which set up the continuous effect.

"You, Your

The words “you” and “your” on an object refer to the object’s controller
(or its owner if it has no controller). For static abilities, this is
the current controller of the object it’s on. For activated abilities,
this is the player who played the ability. For triggered abilities, this
is the controller of the object when the ability triggered. See also
Controller, Owner."

"418. Continuous Effects

418.1. A continuous effect modifies characteristics of objects or
modifies the rules of the game for a fixed or indefinite period. A
continuous effect may be generated by the resolution of a spell or
ability or by a static ability of an object."

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

David de Kloet schrieb:
> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005, Maz wrote:
>
>> Although ...
>
>
> Please, you don't have to post your message 5 times.
>

sorry I thought taking a message back would delete it.
I´m quite new to newsgroup systems won´t happen again

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 00:12:13 +0100, Maz <nospamMazworld@gmx.de> wrote:
>Although the controller of both the land´s activated abilities at the
>time they were tapped was your opponent these abilities set up
>continuous effects which refer to the lands themselves.

Yes. But that's not the question; he's asking about "your next untap step"
versus "its controller's next untap step". The former definitely finds out
who "you" are from the controller of the _ability_ (not the controller of the
-source of- the ability), which can't change; the latter asks about the
controller of the land, which can.

>The words 'you' and 'your' on an object refer to the object's controller
>(or its owner if it has no controller). For static abilities, this is
>the current controller of the object it's on.

Yep. And "current" here is "on resolution". The ability's controller does not
change _after the ability is done resolving_ (or, for that matter, before
it has done so). The land's controller can change.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
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